Prospect Info: Grand Rapids Griffins Discussion

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Henkka

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Can Nate Danielson join GR at next season, thanks to late birthday ?

He will be 20 before the next AHL season start (born September 27th, 2004). AHL season will start on mid-October.
 

Astyanax

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And what did Hasek win alone? Nothing.

Skaters > goalies all day every day. If you're a good team the puck is in the other end over half the game...
Exactly, he was doing it alone in Buffalo and almost won, but didn't. In detroit, had a great team and won!!! Our great team also won with vernon and osgood 2x.
 

SantosHalper

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Can Nate Danielson join GR at next season, thanks to late birthday ?

He will be 20 before the next AHL season start (born September 27th, 2004). AHL season will start on mid-October.
Cossa was born in November 21 2002 and made his debut in October 19 2022. So no problem.

What would the lineup in GR look next season?
Mazur - Kasper - Söderblom
Hirose - Czarnik - Luff
Lombardi - Danielson - Gettinger
Hanas - Savage - Shine
Spezia - Doucet - Bradley

Johansson - Tuomisto
Wallinder - Rafferty
Buium - Didier
Viro - Newpower

Cossa
Hutchinson

PP1
Söderblom(net front)
Lombardi(wall) - Mazur(slot) - Kasper(wall)
Johansson

PP2
Luff(net front)
Czarnik(wall) - Danielson(slot) - Hirose(wall)
Rafferty

PK pairs
Kasper - Danielson
Savage - Shine
Czarnik - Mazur
 
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Roomba With a Bauer

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Sep 11, 2007
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Can Nate Danielson join GR at next season, thanks to late birthday ?

He will be 20 before the next AHL season start (born September 27th, 2004). AHL season will start on mid-October.
He's eligible for the AHL for next season but I'll be disappointed if he has another strong preseason and gets stuck in GR.
 

lilidk

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Mar 4, 2008
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Cossa was born in November 21 2002 and made his debut in October 19 2022. So no problem.

What would the lineup in GR look next season?
Mazur - Kasper - Söderblom
Hirose - Czarnik - Luff
Lombardi - Danielson - Gettinger
Hanas - Savage - Shine
Spezia - Doucet - Bradley

Johansson - Tuomisto
Wallinder - Rafferty
Buium - Didier
Viro - Newpower

Cossa
Hutchinson

PP1
Söderblom(net front)
Lombardi(wall) - Mazur(slot) - Kasper(wall)
Johansson

PP2
Luff(net front)
Czarnik(wall) - Danielson(slot) - Hirose(wall)
Rafferty

PK pairs
Kasper - Danielson
Savage - Shine
Czarnik - Mazur
Hope Kasper, Mazur and AJ in NHL next season
 

SantosHalper

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Hope Kasper, Mazur and AJ in NHL next season
2 of the Kane, Sprong, Fischer would have to leave then. If Sprong prices himself out, that opens a spot and then trading Fabbri at the TDL would open a second spot. But for now i would keep all 3 and start Kasper and Mazur in GR next season, then they would be the 1st call ups and Czarnik/Hirose/Luff can stay in GR and help them win.
AJ is no longer waiver exempt next season? Makes me think he won't be in GR, he won't clear.
You are correct, i keep forgetting that AJ's loan lasted 2 years. It's a pickle for sure, i don't really find a role or spot in Detroit. Unless Yzerman trades Määttä and doesn't acquire any d-men.

Walman - Seider
Ed - Petry
Chiarot - AJ
Holl

Bold strategy though, boom or bust defense. This way though Wallinder and Tuomisto would get massive roles in GR, 1st pair on ES and PK1, PP1 for Tuomisto.
Wallinder - Tuomisto
Buium - Rafferty
Viro - Didier
Newpower

I think Yzerman and Horcoff would have to sign "Czarnik of the defense", there ain't really anyone who you can call up.
 

Gniwder

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Oct 12, 2009
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Cossa was born in November 21 2002 and made his debut in October 19 2022. So no problem.

What would the lineup in GR look next season?
Mazur - Kasper - Söderblom
Hirose - Czarnik - Luff
Lombardi - Danielson - Gettinger
Hanas - Savage - Shine
Spezia - Doucet - Bradley

Johansson - Tuomisto
Wallinder - Rafferty
Buium - Didier
Viro - Newpower

Cossa
Hutchinson

PP1
Söderblom(net front)
Lombardi(wall) - Mazur(slot) - Kasper(wall)
Johansson

PP2
Luff(net front)
Czarnik(wall) - Danielson(slot) - Hirose(wall)
Rafferty

PK pairs
Kasper - Danielson
Savage - Shine
Czarnik - Mazur

Luff, Taco, ZAR, Czarnik, and Hutch are all UFA after this season Newpower is RFA..
 

lilidk

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Mar 4, 2008
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2 of the Kane, Sprong, Fischer would have to leave then. If Sprong prices himself out, that opens a spot and then trading Fabbri at the TDL would open a second spot. But for now i would keep all 3 and start Kasper and Mazur in GR next season, then they would be the 1st call ups and Czarnik/Hirose/Luff can stay in GR and help them win.

You are correct, i keep forgetting that AJ's loan lasted 2 years. It's a pickle for sure, i don't really find a role or spot in Detroit. Unless Yzerman trades Määttä and doesn't acquire any d-men.

Walman - Seider
Ed - Petry
Chiarot - AJ
Holl

Bold strategy though, boom or bust defense. This way though Wallinder and Tuomisto would get massive roles in GR, 1st pair on ES and PK1, PP1 for Tuomisto.
Wallinder - Tuomisto
Buium - Rafferty
Viro - Didier
Newpower

I think Yzerman and Horcoff would have to sign "Czarnik of the defense", there ain't really anyone who you can call up.
Thing is we have probably the best prospect pull and this season we didn't get new kids on the team, but take 2 , Berggren and Soderblom away.
 

SantosHalper

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Thing is we have probably the best prospect pull and this season we didn't get new kids on the team, but take 2 , Berggren and Soderblom away.
Söderblom? He starts in GR for sure, he's on pace of 9 goals right now. Berggren could be used in a trade but he's not going to be traded for picks.
X - Larkin - "Ray"
Cat - Comp - X
"Ras" - Copp - X
Fabbri - "Veleno" - X
Kostin

Walman - "Seider"
Ed - Petry
Määttä - Chiarot
Holl

"player name"=RFAs

One X is Berggren or a forward they traded for. Three remaining X's would Kane, Sprong and Fischer. But if they trade Berggren for a defenseman, that would open a spot. But that would also take a spot from AJ, so he would have to be part of the package.
 
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HoweFan

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I don’t see what trading Berggren will do to solve the logjam problem. He’s not going to a contending team. They want proven players who can win now. A rebuilding team would take him in a heartbeat. They aren’t going to give up draft picks because they are rebuilding. That leaves more vets like Sprong and Perron to make more roadblocks for the kids. I really hope he trades the vets but I think it will be in the offseason and not at the deadline
 

SantosHalper

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I don’t see what trading Berggren will do to solve the logjam problem. He’s not going to a contending team. They want proven players who can win now. A rebuilding team would take him in a heartbeat. They aren’t going to give up draft picks because they are rebuilding. That leaves more vets like Sprong and Perron to make more roadblocks for the kids. I really hope he trades the vets but I think it will be in the offseason and not at the deadline
I don't think there is nothing to solve, except what to do with Johansson. It's either him or Määttä or Holl who gets traded. That there is the only logjam problem.

Ed replaces Ghost, Berggren replaces Perron, the rest of UFAs gets re-signed. Kasper, Mazur and Danielson starts in GR.

TDL 2025, Fabbri and Kostin gets traded. By then Wings can retain 50% on Kostin, someone could pay a late round pick, if not then waive Kostin. Drop Fischer to press box and Wings have 2 spots open, promote 2 best performing kids from the GR. Which most likely are Kasper and Mazur.

After this season i would sign a 2-year deal to Sprong, if Sprong keeps these numbers up he's gonna want a bigger contract. There is no point for the Wings to pay for that and at the 2026 TDL trade Sprong. If he is still putting up these numbers Wings are going to get good price, if the production halts then there is just more the reason to trade him. And then promote Danielson.

Starting from October 2026 Kasper and Danielson starts overthrowing Compher and Copp from their center spots.

Start the kids in GR, trade vets at the TDL and get a best the price, promote the kids then. Simple.

It's more realistic that someone like Hanifin plays for Detroit, than the opening night roster would have 5 rookies in it.
 

jaster

I am become woke, destroyer of ignorance.
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Sorry but NHL not being development league is a massive oversimplification -
Meant to come back to this because this is a rare topic on this board I actually find very interesting.
It's not a massive oversimplification I repeat - the NHL is not a development league. If you talk to just about anyone in pro hockey circles, especially front office types, coaches, and scouts, you'll be told the same. Up to the NHL, guys can be thrown in leagues they are not ready for and "catch up" on the fly. You can't do that in the NHL.

players don't stop developing in the NHL, you always need time to adjust, i remember old Dobber article where he states that players actually need about three-to-four seasons to reach their peak.
Like do you send down Raymond last season because of his struggles? He was by no means at 0.9 compared to his self as during this season. You actually need challenge to develop, if everything comes easy, you not learning from it, it might result in bad habits.

I think there are two aspects of "the bar":

- Players is good enough to learn from and not be hurt by this experience. Like not being completely overmatched. I think we agree that is not the case with Edvinsson.
- In case of a team competing for something, player should be better than the worst player at his position. It also can be argued that Edvinsson is better than at least two current defensemen.

I think in the most cases coaches prefer to minimize the probability of getting fired and try to minimize randomness - vets are more predictable, if not better. Or just don't like to deal with any kind of development as they need to put additional effort (Babcock comes to mind). In case of Edvinsson, i think Yzerman has some pressure to make the playoffs so he thinks depth is important.
Of course players don't stop developing, and have to adjust. That's the remaining 10% I was talking about. But a player putting the final touches on his game and undergoing natural progression during his early 20s does not mean the NHL is a development league. What I'm stressing here is, again, the high bar to entry. The hundreds of boxes a player has to check before a team throws him in. Mistakes in juniors, and even minor leagues, can be covered up or mitigated rather easily. Not in the NHL. Mistakes are exposed and exploited in a highly efficient manner by the opposition in the NHL, as we all see on a nightly basis. Mistakes happen to everyone, but players need to be able to identify why a mistake happened and what to do to prevent it in the future. They need to know how to minimize them. Otherwise, they are not ready for the big league, and most coaches will eat them alive.

Raymond last season is an example of a young player who struggled, which is very common. But he had already established himself in the NHL. He had already checked an overwhelming number of those hundreds of boxes. He had already cleared the high bar to entry. He was easily at the 90% mark, despite those struggles. Sending him down was almost certainly never a real option.

As for "the bar," it's a thing, or a lot of things, that are often difficult to see as a fan. How is this kid preparing himself? How fast is he absorbing knowledge? How hard does he go in practice? How much is he paying attention to the fine details that can make or break his performance in a game? How well is he learning from his mistakes? How is he treating his body away from the rink? On the ice, is he executing what he's been told? Is his attitude good enough and does he have enough mental fortitude to get over the humps and survive the valleys? How's his compete level? Etcetera, etcetera.

Now, has Edvinsson cleared that bar? Probably? There's a little room for doubt given the mistakes he was making last time he was up. I would still bet that he is currently ready for the NHL and could make a positive impact, but I can't rule out the possibility that Detroit does have him working on something. More likely, I think it's simply a case of Detroit doing well, being in the playoff hunt, and so if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Because I think we can all agree that when Ed does make it back to Detroit, we want him to have a significant role.
 
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norrisnick

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Meant to come back to this because this is a rare topic on this board I actually find very interesting.
It's not a massive oversimplification I repeat - the NHL is not a development league. If you talk to just about anyone in pro hockey circles, especially front office types, coaches, and scouts, you'll be told the same. Up to the NHL, guys can be thrown in leagues they are not ready for and "catch up" on the fly. You can't do that in the NHL.


Of course players don't stop developing, and have to adjust. That's the remaining 10% I was talking about. But a player putting the final touches on his game and undergoing natural progression during his early 20s does not mean the NHL is a development league. What I'm stressing here is, again, the high bar to entry. The hundreds of boxes a player has to check before a team throws him in. Mistakes in juniors, and even minor leagues, can be covered up or mitigated rather easily. Not in the NHL. Mistakes are exposed and exploited in a highly efficient manner by the opposition in the NHL, as we all see on a nightly basis. Mistakes happen to everyone, but players need to be able to identify why a mistake happened and what to do to prevent it in the future. They need to know how to minimize them. Otherwise, they are not ready for the big league, and most coaches will eat them alive.

Raymond last season is an example of a young player who struggled, which is very common. But he had already established himself in the NHL. He had already checked an overwhelming number of those hundreds of boxes. He had already cleared the high bar to entry. He was easily at the 90% mark, despite those struggles. Sending him down was almost certainly never a real option.

As for "the bar," it's a thing, or a lot of things, that are often difficult to see as a fan. How is this kid preparing himself? How fast is he absorbing knowledge? How hard does he go in practice? How much is he paying attention to the fine details that can make or break his performance in a game? How well is he learning from his mistakes? How is he treating his body away from the rink? On the ice, is he executing what he's been told? Is his attitude good enough and does he have enough mental fortitude to get over the humps and survive the valleys? How's his compete level? Etcetera, etcetera.

Now, has Edvinsson cleared that bar? Probably? There's a little room for doubt given the mistakes he was making last time he was up. I would still bet that he is currently ready for the NHL and could make a positive impact, but I can't rule out the possibility that Detroit does have him working on something. More likely, I think it's simply a case of Detroit doing well, being in the playoff hunt, and so if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Because I think we can all agree that when Ed does make it back to Detroit, we want him to have a significant role.
Why do only young players need to check these boxes? Why is it perfectly acceptable for veteran players to not have these boxes checked?
 

jaster

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Why do only young players need to check these boxes? Why is it perfectly acceptable for veteran players to not have these boxes checked?
The vets do have them checked. You don’t become a vet if you don’t.
 

jaster

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Tie goes the veteran, amirite? And tie meaning "yeah this kid is better, but he's waiver exempt so pack your bags..."
Well now that is a different thing. I think there's a lot more room for debate when we're talking about a ready prospect vs a vet. Now you involve asset management, coach's biases, cap considerations, etc.
 

norrisnick

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Well now that is a different thing. I think there's a lot more room for debate when we're talking about a ready prospect vs a vet. Now you involve asset management, coach's biases, cap considerations, etc.
It's not a different thing. You can't sit here and spout "oh so and so clearly hasn't checked all the boxes yet" but it's very obviously a guy that wouldn't check the boxes either would have to clear waivers and this other guy, boxes checked or not, doesn't. The two issues are never separated. No GM is making call up or not call up decisions in a vacuum of "Is player X ready? Yes? Bring him up." It's always done behind the lens of who is already on the team and what do I do with them.

Hronek didn't check any boxes that Ed hasn't checked by this point...
 

jaster

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But you know what, I don't even care about this debate anymore. I just bought a Flying Toasters jersey off eBay for $90, which is probably $80 more than it's worth for a fan giveaway replica, but whatever. It's my new warmup jersey for men's league.
 
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jaster

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It's not a different thing. You can't sit here and spout "oh so and so clearly hasn't checked all the boxes yet" but it's very obviously a guy that wouldn't check the boxes either would have to clear waivers and this other guy, boxes checked or not, doesn't. The two issues are never separated. No GM is making call up or not call up decisions in a vacuum of "Is player X ready? Yes? Bring him up." It's always done behind the lens of who is already on the team and what do I do with them.

Hronek didn't check any boxes that Ed hasn't checked by this point...
It's very much a different thing. It's whether a kid is ready for the NHL in a vacuum (the original discussion) vs. whether he can crack a roster by "beating out" a vet (the topic you've been hammering away at atop your soapbox for months). They are they separate, they are apples and oranges. Related, sure, but they are different things with different sets of criteria.

Where did I say Edvinsson clearly hasn't checked the boxes? Pretty sure I clearly said that I think he probably has. But so have the vets. Otherwise they wouldn't be vets, they would have washed out long ago. This topic runs into the list of things I named in my last post.

On the flipside, ou're not even in the running to lose out to a vet if you aren't NHL ready. Like, I don't know, William Wallinder. There's no point in talking about how he stacks up against vets in Detroit since he's not checked the boxes yet.

Now, back to my Flying Toasters jersey purchase....
 

norrisnick

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It's very much a different thing. It's whether a kid is ready for the NHL in a vacuum (the original discussion) vs. whether he can crack a roster by "beating out" a vet (the topic you've been hammering away at atop your soapbox for months). They are they separate, they are apples and oranges. Related, sure, but they are different things with different sets of criteria.

Where did I say Edvinsson clearly hasn't checked the boxes? Pretty sure I clearly said that I think he probably has. But so have the vets. Otherwise they wouldn't be vets, they would have washed out long ago. This topic runs into the list of things I named in my last post.

On the flipside, ou're not even in the running to lose out to a vet if you aren't NHL ready. Like, I don't know, William Wallinder. There's no point in talking about how he stacks up against vets in Detroit since he's not checked the boxes yet.

Now, back to my Flying Toasters jersey purchase....
I fervently disagree with your notion of checked boxes. Unless you simultaneously hold the belief that a massive number of AHLers also have the boxes ticked and just are getting cock-blocked from a roster spot. There are too many "box ticked veterans" in the NHL that have no business holding NHL jobs over some of the players that aren't getting opportunities. To the degree that ticking boxes is then largely irrelevant because it doesn't put you any closer to the NHL anyway.

Or put another way, the bar to entry may be high. But the bar to staying in is laughably low.
 
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jaster

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I fervently disagree with your notion of checked boxes. Unless you simultaneously hold the belief that a massive number of AHLers also have the boxes ticked and just are getting cock-blocked from a roster spot. There are too many "box ticked veterans" in the NHL that have no business holding NHL jobs over some of the players that aren't getting opportunities. To the degree that ticking boxes is then largely irrelevant because it doesn't put you any closer to the NHL anyway.

Or put another way, the bar to entry may be high. But the bar to staying in is laughably low.
I mean, disagreeing with the idea that there are certain things a player needs to be proficient at before he is ready to play in the NHL is a pretty wild stance to me, but you do you. Like, do you think teams are just regularly bringing up kids to the NHL who don't know what they are doing?

I get it that you have it out for seemingly hundreds of NHL veterans who you view as inferior players to a bunch of kids in the minors, but if those don't know how to be pros, it's weird to be arguing that they belong in the NHL then.

Very few players in the AHL have the NHL boxes ticked. Those who do and are still in the AHL are either about to be called up or are being held back due to asset management and/or roster considerations.
 

Konnan511

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It's not a different thing. You can't sit here and spout "oh so and so clearly hasn't checked all the boxes yet" but it's very obviously a guy that wouldn't check the boxes either would have to clear waivers and this other guy, boxes checked or not, doesn't. The two issues are never separated. No GM is making call up or not call up decisions in a vacuum of "Is player X ready? Yes? Bring him up." It's always done behind the lens of who is already on the team and what do I do with them.

Hronek didn't check any boxes that Ed hasn't checked by this point...
Careful.....
 
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