Prospect Info: Grand Rapids Griffins Discussion

[TheOctopusKid]

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Edvinsson has gotten NHL games already and Johansson hasn’t. They are at opposite end of the spectrums when it comes to NHL frames.

I think there is a wide range of outcomes for what Johansson could be in the NHL. He could absolutely become a good player, he has some good tools to his game. The risk you run with him is that he’s a tweener in the NHL. Not a power play guy, not a penalty kill guy, and a guy who will look overmatched physically against certain teams. I could see him being a middle pair guy for us in a few years, a middle pair guy for someone else in a few years a la Jensen, or I could see him back in Sweden in a few years. None of those would surprise me at all.

I agree there's a wide range of outcomes here for him as a player. I think a Jensen comp is probably fair - but I would also say that Jensen is now a 4M, 20pt AAV Top 4D with 500gp. So lets call that the Jensen line. I'll say he ends up better than Jensen, earlier than him (he's 30+ now I think) regardless of his size; where do you fall on it? Above or below on on it?

Edit: I'm ...not as concerned about his size and I don't think the Ed call was because of it. I think two things played into his call up first; he is decidedly the more talented player with a far higher ceiling and AlJo's injury in March that carried into a slow start in the fall that resulted in the late 2023 call up this season

 

[TheOctopusKid]

Having a plan interrupted and just scrapping it rather than finding a way to execute it later is not a good look. Adapt and overcome.

I'm confused by this response. I think this is "adapt" and overcome. The plan was to get AlJo and Ed up. They weren't ready for different reasons. They signed Holl, Ghost, Petry, and extended Mattaa to cover so they can bring up Ed and Al later? Or am I misreading this?

 

[norrisnick]

I'm confused by this response. I think this is "adapt" and overcome. The plan was to get AlJo and Ed up. They weren't ready for different reasons. They signed Holl, Ghost, Petry, and extended Mattaa to cover so they can bring up Ed and Al later? Or am I misreading this?

The plan was to get them up. It was interrupted. So find a way to get them up. Just playing Ghost, Holl, Petry isn't fulfilling the plan of getting the kids up. Ed and Al are healthy. Find a way.

 

[Frk It]

I agree there's a wide range of outcomes here for him as a player. I think a Jensen comp is probably fair - but I would also say that Jensen is now a 4M, 20pt AAV Top 4D with 500gp. So lets call that the Jensen line. I'll say he ends up better than Jensen, earlier than him (he's 30+ now I think) regardless of his size; where do you fall on it? Above or below on on it?

Edit: I'm ...not as concerned about his size and I don't think the Ed call was because of it. I think two things played into his call up first; he is decidedly the more talented player with a far higher ceiling and AlJo's injury in March that carried into a slow start in the fall that resulted in the late 2023 call up this season

I think Jensen 2.0 is a reasonable expectation for Johansson. I’d like to see him become that, and I’d like to see that become that with us if possible. I think the blue line is going to be pretty crowded over the next few years though. Wallinder is coming on really strong as of late, and that’s another guy that could leapfrog him with a more prototypical NHL frame.

Personally I’d like to see Johansson get called up before the end of this year. For one, because I think he’s deserved it. For two, because of the reasons I’ve mentioned where I think he’s really that type of player you have to see at the NHL level to see how he looks.

 

[norrisnick]

I think Jensen 2.0 is a reasonable expectation for Johansson. I’d like to see him become that, and I’d like to see that become that with us if possible. I think the blue line is going to be pretty crowded over the next few years though. Wallinder is coming on really strong as of late, and that’s another guy that could leapfrog him with a more prototypical NHL frame.

Personally I’d like to see Johansson get called up before the end of this year. For one, because I think he’s deserved it. For two, because of the reasons I’ve mentioned where I think he’s really that type of player you have to see at the NHL level to see how he looks.

And for three, if the Wings are hesitant to bring up one rookie D this year what makes anyone think they'll try out three of them next year...

 

[Frk It]

And for three, if the Wings are hesitant to bring up one rookie D this year what makes anyone think they'll try out three of them next year...

I don’t want to be involved in that “we’re never gonna play rookies again (even though we’ve done it before)” tirade that you’re on….

 

[jaster]

Possibly him too, but I haven't heard or seen that episode yet.

Anyway, I hope he gets a look soon.

Mazur made the comment that set off the discussion. And then people around the Griffins seemed to start getting questions about AlJo.

 

[RRhoads]

Mazur made the comment that set off the discussion. And then people around the Griffins seemed to start getting questions about AlJo.

The podcast I watched was before that episode though. I think maybe it was another podcast. Anyway, they seem to agree that AlJo is the best Dman on the Griffins, which was really the point of my post.

 

[norrisnick]

I don’t want to be involved in that “we’re never gonna play rookies again (even though we’ve done it before)” tirade that you’re on….

Well strap in!

 

[jaster]

The podcast I watched was before that episode though. I think maybe it was another podcast. Anyway, they seem to agree that AlJo is the best Dman on the Griffins, which was really the point of my post.

Ok then. I hadn’t heard AlJo’s name in the media for a long time until that Mazur interview, and then I saw his name all over the place in response to it. If there was a previous interview, I hadn’t heard about it.

Anyway, AlJo is certainly a big curiosity at this point. A legitimately good pro defenseman by all accounts, with the question being, “Will it translate to the NHL?” Here’s to hoping. I like him. I will be over the moon if he reaches Jensen’s impact like some mentioned. But that result is much closer to the high end of his range of outcomes than the midpoint, odds are he doesn’t get to that level.

 

[SantosHalper]

Luff is finally healthy, Calder Cup hunt is on.

Hirose - Czarnik - Luff
Mazur - Kasper - Berggren
Gettinger - Lombardi - Söderblom
Hanas - ZAR/L'Esperance - Shine
Spezia

Edvinsson - Rafferty
Johansson - Tuomisto
Wallinder - Didier
Viro - Newpower

Cossa
Hutchinson

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

It was Carter Mazur.

And Cossa. They both talked about AlJo and said he was realgud.

 

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

How many slim, 6’0 defensemen who don’t play special teams are there across the league that you look at and say yeah I’d really like to add that player to our mix? Genuinely curious if people have comparable players in that mold who you can project Johansson to. I kinda get the Jensen thing but he’s got like an inch and 20-30 lbs I think, which is a pretty big difference.

This feels like Berggren all over again, and I suspect the same outcome. I think there’s NHL potential but I think it’s a much much narrower path than his biggest advocates suggest. Undersized mobile prospects with decent but unexceptional skill just do not convert into NHL staples at the rate this board expects them to, I think it’s the most consistently true pattern I see here.

Edit: for what it’s worth I think his game is pretty well-rounded, I don’t think it’s *impossible* that’s he’s a solid NHLer. But he is the type of prospect I think people need to think a little bit more critically about.

 

[cvaicunas]

How many slim, 6’0 defensemen who don’t play special teams are there across the league that you look at and say yeah I’d really like to add that player to our mix? Genuinely curious if people have comparable players in that mold who you can project Johansson to. I kinda get the Jensen thing but he’s got like an inch and 20-30 lbs I think, which is a pretty big difference.

This feels like Berggren all over again, and I suspect the same outcome. I think there’s NHL potential but I think it’s a much much narrower path than his biggest advocates suggest. Undersized mobile prospects with decent but unexceptional skill just do not convert into NHL staples at the rate this board expects them to, I think it’s the most consistently true pattern I see here.

Edit: for what it’s worth I think his game is pretty well-rounded, I don’t think it’s *impossible* that’s he’s a solid NHLer. But he is the type of prospect I think people need to think a little bit more critically about.

Berggren the talented prospect who played 67 NHL games, who has since been relegated to the minors to work on aspects of his game? No one is saying either player will be an all star, but rather that they may be contributors to a winning team in the right role.

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

The fact that Albert Johannson was drafted almost five years ago and has yet to play a single NHL game is pretty indicative of his future as an NHLer on this team.

It's more likely he's traded as part of a package at the deadline.

 

[cvaicunas]

The fact that Albert Johannson was drafted almost five years ago and has yet to play a single NHL game is pretty indicative of his future as an NHLer on this team.

It's more likely he's traded as part of a package at the deadline.

I don't think that is necessarily true. Draft AND develop....

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

How many slim, 6’0 defensemen who don’t play special teams are there across the league that you look at and say yeah I’d really like to add that player to our mix? Genuinely curious if people have comparable players in that mold who you can project Johansson to. I kinda get the Jensen thing but he’s got like an inch and 20-30 lbs I think, which is a pretty big difference.

This feels like Berggren all over again, and I suspect the same outcome. I think there’s NHL potential but I think it’s a much much narrower path than his biggest advocates suggest. Undersized mobile prospects with decent but unexceptional skill just do not convert into NHL staples at the rate this board expects them to, I think it’s the most consistently true pattern I see here.

Edit: for what it’s worth I think his game is pretty well-rounded, I don’t think it’s *impossible* that’s he’s a solid NHLer. But he is the type of prospect I think people need to think a little bit more critically about.

Sam Girard
Dante Fabbro
Jared Spurgeon
Ryan Ellis
Nick Leddy
Kevin Shattenkirk
Nils Lundqvist
Rasmus Sandin

There aren’t many good, small defenders in the middle of the lineup, but there are some. I’d love if he could become a Cale Makar or Hughes brother, but any of the above type of outcomes would be solid. (Not Detroit Leddy though. He sucked.)

 

[Henkka]

The fact that Albert Johannson was drafted almost five years ago and has yet to play a single NHL game is pretty indicative of his future as an NHLer on this team.

It's more likely he's traded as part of a package at the deadline.

Waiting to see him go for Hanifin.

 

[Frk It]

Sam Girard
Dante Fabbro
Jared Spurgeon
Ryan Ellis
Nick Leddy
Kevin Shattenkirk
Nils Lundqvist
Rasmus Sandin

There aren’t many good, small defenders in the middle of the lineup, but there are some. I’d love if he could become a Cale Makar or Hughes brother, but any of the above type of outcomes would be solid. (Not Detroit Leddy though. He sucked.)

Leddy is 200 + lbs, Shattenkirk was a #1 PP guy for years, Ellis played on both special teams units.

I think the rest are somewhat comparable.

The main concern for me is that Johansson isn't getting more PP usage at the AHL level. Guys like Girard, Sandin, Lundqvist all were used on the PP a lot prior to making to to the NHL. Although not likely, my concern with Johansson would be he leaves and becomes Vince Dunn for someone. I think we need to play him in the NHL to prevent that from happening, even though again I think that would be pretty unlikely.

 

[GarlicbreadTB]

Early prediction for next camp: Kasper, Danielson and Edvinsson all make it to Detroit. Thoughts?

 

[cvaicunas]

Leddy is 200 + lbs, Shattenkirk was a #1 PP guy for years, Ellis played on both special teams units.

I think the rest are somewhat comparable.

The main concern for me is that Johansson isn't getting more PP usage at the AHL level. Guys like Girard, Sandin, Lundqvist all were used on the PP a lot prior to making to to the NHL. Although not likely, my concern with Johansson would be he leaves and becomes Vince Dunn for someone. I think we need to play him in the NHL to prevent that from happening, even though again I think that would be pretty unlikely.

I don't see that being his role if he makes it in detroit. His role is going to be, a solid mistake free defense partner. I can see why GR would put him in a role, that A; represents his future use in detroit, and B he is not going to get that role over Ed in GR

 

[TheOctopusKid]

Despite it sounding like a debate on him as a prospect, we all see Johnasson actually very similarly. He is a middle pair D, who plays a solid all-round game. I don't think anyone here is predicting he's going to be Dunn (although that would be fantastic), but again, falls into that 4th-5th in a good D core, Jensen 2.0, Dante Fabbro, level player. Couple of things:

1. I know we keep talking about his size, but I'm sure why that's a worry? He's 6ft, 185. There are plenty of very solid Dmen who have operated at that size, and not just all skating wundakins. By the time he's really into his mid to late 20s, he should be size wise to a Kronwall (6'1' 195ish?), so don't know why we keep calling him small. Additionally, he's already played 3 years in a men's league in the SHL, with fully grown men and many ex-NHL players and wasn't not overpowered and played key roles in a championship run. If he was going to get punked because he was weak or small, it would've already be pretty apparent.

2. Not playing an NHL game to this point probably shouldn't be held against him nor does it really speak to him as a bust? He is much like the "Berggren" of Defense in his development path. However, he is still 1yr behind him in terms of draft (18 to 19), development (3 years in SHL, 1 full Year in the AHL), etc. Came over a year later, etc. Also, losing March on to the season ending injury, delayed him from getting his first call ups (which was the same time that Berggren was getting a look the year prior). That being said, I would expect to see Berggren as a callup sometime this year if the opportunity presents itself.

3. If he were to net us a significant upgrade (70pt+ Forward, Top Pair D), as part of a package - Player, Prospect, Pick, I would be all for sending him out however I would be so quick to dismiss him as a significant contributor to a team, being young, smart, positionally sound, does everything "good, not great". We act like these players are throw away, but they are important to our team to build out that depth. And if he ends up as Jensen (16min, 25pt, low risk, low reward D, who skates and can make an outlet pass) or a Brad Stuart, I sure as hell would take that every day of the week over out current bottom 3 D we have on our team right now.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

How many slim, 6’0 defensemen who don’t play special teams are there across the league that you look at and say yeah I’d really like to add that player to our mix? Genuinely curious if people have comparable players in that mold who you can project Johansson to. I kinda get the Jensen thing but he’s got like an inch and 20-30 lbs I think, which is a pretty big difference.

This feels like Berggren all over again, and I suspect the same outcome. I think there’s NHL potential but I think it’s a much much narrower path than his biggest advocates suggest. Undersized mobile prospects with decent but unexceptional skill just do not convert into NHL staples at the rate this board expects them to, I think it’s the most consistently true pattern I see here.

Edit: for what it’s worth I think his game is pretty well-rounded, I don’t think it’s *impossible* that’s he’s a solid NHLer. But he is the type of prospect I think people need to think a little bit more critically about.

Personally, I think he will be too much of a tweener at the NHL level. Like it or not, the tip of the pyramid is very small and there isn't room for everyone. Someone like him really needs to move the needle offensively to stay in the lineup at the top level and I seriously question whether he has it in him. He has a very strong understanding of the game and reads the play very well, but I also think his lack of strength (comparatively) still will be an issue on the defensive side of the puck. I absolutely do, however, want to see him at the NHL level to see what he can show. He has at least earned that.

 

[19 for president]

I think the Wings see 1 dman and 1 maybe 2 forwards get called up next season. Berggren and Aljo make the most sense since they will be out of waiver exemption. I also think they are the most likely guys to be included in a deal though to upgrade this current team. Both guys are too good to be lost for free on waivers. Ed should be up now, but he might get caught in the numbers game again.

My prediction is that Aljo gets dealt. Ed and Berggren are next years callups. Outside chance of one of Kasper, Mazur, or Danielson making the team if they blow it out of the water at camp.

 

[wingerdinger]

The Sam Girard comps a very good one imo. In a 32 team league I find it hard to believe Albert wont be an NHL defensemen. Now will he be a Detroit Red Wing, I doubt it.