Prospect Info: Grand Rapids Griffins Discussion

[Gniwder]

How many slim, 6’0 defensemen who don’t play special teams are there across the league that you look at and say yeah I’d really like to add that player to our mix? Genuinely curious if people have comparable players in that mold who you can project Johansson to. I kinda get the Jensen thing but he’s got like an inch and 20-30 lbs I think, which is a pretty big difference.

This feels like Berggren all over again, and I suspect the same outcome. I think there’s NHL potential but I think it’s a much much narrower path than his biggest advocates suggest. Undersized mobile prospects with decent but unexceptional skill just do not convert into NHL staples at the rate this board expects them to, I think it’s the most consistently true pattern I see here.

Edit: for what it’s worth I think his game is pretty well-rounded, I don’t think it’s *impossible* that’s he’s a solid NHLer. But he is the type of prospect I think people need to think a little bit more critically about.

Djoos and Stecher. He'll be somewhere between an AHL tweener or bottom D for a bad team. (Stecher is short, not skinny, but same weight class.)

It's funny how everyone accepts that AlJo isn't gonna bulk up, yet they're 100% certain Mazur will. I'm not saying Mazur can't, but it's not a guarantee especially since he's gained 5 lbs or so in the last 3 years.

 

[Geezer WC]

Djoos and Stecher. He'll be somewhere between an AHL tweener or bottom D for a bad team. (Stecher is short, not skinny, but same weight class.)

It's funny how everyone accepts that AlJo isn't gonna bulk up, yet they're 100% certain Mazur will. I'm not saying Mazur can't, but it's not a guarantee especially since he's gained 5 lbs or so in the last 3 years.

You seem fixated on weight. The flames listing Mangiapane at 184 is nonsense. That guy looks the same size as Tim Lincecum did pitching at 157.

 

[Gniwder]

You seem fixated on weight. The flames listing Mangiapane at 184 is nonsense. That guy looks the same size as Tim Lincecum did pitching at 157.

Height, weight, strength, skating, stick skills, hockey IQ, etc. Just one of many factors. It's hard to be an NHLer when you have a major deficiency in any area. The players that do are usually extremely gifted in some other aspect to compensate for it.

Guys like Mazur and AlJo aren't good enough to make it as an underweight player. That's why I said somewhere between Djoos and Stecher for AlJo.

I also said Cholo wasn't gonna make it in the league when everyone was hyping him in his rookie season. That had nothing to do with size. Zadina? Size isn't the issue there either. They had other deficiencies.

 

[Hazy Little Thing]

Leddy is 200 + lbs, Shattenkirk was a #1 PP guy for years, Ellis played on both special teams units.

I think the rest are somewhat comparable.

The main concern for me is that Johansson isn't getting more PP usage at the AHL level. Guys like Girard, Sandin, Lundqvist all were used on the PP a lot prior to making to to the NHL. Although not likely, my concern with Johansson would be he leaves and becomes Vince Dunn for someone. I think we need to play him in the NHL to prevent that from happening, even though again I think that would be pretty unlikely.

What are the two GR PP units?

 

[RRhoads]

Height, weight, strength, skating, stick skills, hockey IQ, etc. Just one of many factors. It's hard to be an NHLer when you have a major deficiency in any area. The players that do are usually extremely gifted in some other aspect to compensate for it.

Guys like Mazur and AlJo aren't good enough to make it as an underweight player. That's why I said somewhere between Djoos and Stecher for AlJo.

I also said Cholo wasn't gonna make it in the league when everyone was hyping him in his rookie season. That had nothing to do with size. Zadina? Size isn't the issue there either. They had other deficiencies.

How many games have watched him?

 

[Henkka]

What are the two GR PP units?

Probably something like:

Mazur
Hirose - Czarnik - Berggren
Edvinsson

Söderblom (or Gettinger)
L'Esperance - Lombardi - Kasper
Rafferty (or Tuomisto)

If Czarnik called up in NHL, or someone above injured, those "or"-guys have had time.

 

[Hazy Little Thing]

Probably something like:

Mazur
Hirose - Czarnik - Berggren
Edvinsson

Söderblom (or Gettinger)
L'Esperance - Lombardi - Kasper
Rafferty (or Tuomisto)

If Czarnik called up in NHL, or someone above injured, those "or"-guys have had time.

Exactly, so worrying about AlJo not playing the PP because Edvinsson and a AHL vet that put up more than 50 points last year isn’t the gotcha the poster tried to make it.

 

[19 for president]

Exactly, so worrying about AlJo not playing the PP because Edvinsson and a AHL vet that put up more than 50 points last year isn’t the gotcha the poster tried to make it.

Well I think the point is more that players of his stature if they make it to the NHL are typically offensively solid guys that are able to get minutes on the PP. If he isn't able to supplant players at the AHL level for that role then it is unlikely that he will at the NHL level where there is more competition.

Its not the say he won't make the NHL but that he would be doing so in a role not typical for someone of his stature.

I look at weight less for forwards because there are a decent chunk of smaller forwards that have worked out a career in the NHL. With that said it will be really hard for a guy like Mazur if he doesn't put on weight because he plays more of that Bertuzzi style game which puts you into a lot of physical areas.

There is also something to be said about whether a guys build is one of those that leads to them losing a lot of weight throughout the year. I think it was Z who would lose like 20+ lbs every season and was often in the 170s by playoff time. If a guy is more consistent in weight then it could be less of an issue.

All in all you can't really know how a guy will play until he does it, because it comes down to strength. Strength is such a hard thing to measure with just a few stats here or there. I mean there are guys on the spectrum like Marchand and also guys like Big Ras. A guy like Dats looked like a breeze could not knock him down but he routinely dumped much larger guys with a bit of strength and physics.

All of these guys at least appear to be able to handle the physicality of the AHL, which is great. It usually knocks out the really small guys like it did with AA.

 

[jaster]

Mazur said in his WWP interview that it is very difficult for him to add weight. That's not uncommon with young players, but it's an extra challenge for him. Grand Rapids has him listed as 175, and that may be a little generous. He definitely needs to bulk up a little before he makes his NHL debut, given his game.

AlJo is at 185, and while that's a bit undersized for an NHL defenseman, it's still within a normal range. It's only about 5 lbs lighter than Hronek, at the same height. He's already heavier than Djoos.

 

[Gniwder]

How many games have watched him?

Less than a handful TBH, because the Wings are more fun to watch right now. Have not watched yet this calendar year either. But the few games I watched, AlJo didn't stick out at all, good or bad. I didn't see anything that showed he could be better than Matta in the lineup, especially against bigger, stronger, faster competition in the NHL.

Besides, my concern with AlJo is that he'll wind up being Djoos 2.0, and Djoos (6' 180lbs) looked pretty dang good in the AHL (close to PPG in his last season). Much better than AlJo. Once the league figured out they can take him off his game with physical forechecking, that was it. He never looked the same after the Cup series against Vegas. So even if AlJo did have some wow factor, I'd still be concerned.

 

[schuelma24]

1-0 Griffins win. Cossa’s first shutout (28 saves). From the highlights, he had some great saves.

 

[Stony Curtis]

1-0 Griffins win. Cossa’s first shutout (28 saves). From the highlights, he had some great saves.

Johansson scored 25 seconds in, and it held up. Cossa was great all game, and he really stood up in the third.

 

[lhsgolf19]

We got 2 really good goalie prospects in him and Trey… great to have

 

[HoweFan]

Well done Griffs. Congrats to Albert and Sebastien

 

[Filppula]

Tuuomisto sat this one out. Not sure if injured or just a rest, probably the latter. Hasn’t been out for a while. Viro took his place, and he’s another who I think has got something, but it’s just too crowded.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Mazur said in his WWP interview that it is very difficult for him to add weight. That's not uncommon with young players, but it's an extra challenge for him. Grand Rapids has him listed as 175, and that may be a little generous. He definitely needs to bulk up a little before he makes his NHL debut, given his game.

AlJo is at 185, and while that's a bit undersized for an NHL defenseman, it's still within a normal range. It's only about 5 lbs lighter than Hronek, at the same height. He's already heavier than Djoos.

And a better skater than both.

 

[jaster]

And a better skater than both.

While I agree with you, I'd prefer you not reply to any posts referencing Hronek, like or subscribe to any posts referencing Hronek, or make any posts that reference Hronek or his likeness. Thank you for your cooperation.

 

[Frk It]

Mazur said in his WWP interview that it is very difficult for him to add weight. That's not uncommon with young players, but it's an extra challenge for him. Grand Rapids has him listed as 175, and that may be a little generous. He definitely needs to bulk up a little before he makes his NHL debut, given his game.

AlJo is at 185, and while that's a bit undersized for an NHL defenseman, it's still within a normal range. It's only about 5 lbs lighter than Hronek, at the same height. He's already heavier than Djoos.

Teams are going to give a lot more leash to undersized guys who play on the power play versus those who don't.

We are not sure if Johansson is going to be a power play player at the NHL level or not yet.

Hronek and his absolute elite offensive game that Ogee is incapable of recognizing () does a lot of favors for him as far as getting a lot of minutes at his size.

 

[norrisnick]

Teams are going to give a lot more leash to undersized guys who play on the power play versus those who don't.

We are not sure if Johansson is going to be a power play player at the NHL level or not yet.

Hronek and his absolute elite offensive game that Ogee is incapable of recognizing () does a lot of favors for him as far as getting a lot of minutes at his size.

This reminds me of Lalonde being asked about Ras and his growth as a player. And he stated that he thinks there might be some PP ability in Ras and I was yelling at the TV "Might? You are the guy that controls who plays there!"

 

[Henkka]

Next season PP roles

Season 2023-24 icetimes

Gostisbehere 3:37 <--- Seider will take this
Larkin 3:28
Kane 3:27 (hope he will be extended)
DeBrincat 3:20
Perron 3:17 <--- Rasmussen in here ?
------------------
Compher 2:53
Raymond 2:52
Seider 2:35 <--- Walman or Edvinsson in here
Sprong 2:01 (hope he will be extended), if not, this falls to Veleno or Berggren.
Fabbri 1:58
------------
Veleno 1:10
Walman 0:49
Copp 0:49

 

[Konnan511]

Blah blah blah, I'd prefer you not reply to any posts referencing Hronek, like or subscribe to any posts referencing Hronek, or make any posts that reference Hronek or his likeness. Thank you for your cooperation.

Agreed, especially if it's a terrible take.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

While I agree with you, I'd prefer you not reply to any posts referencing Hronek, like or subscribe to any posts referencing Hronek, or make any posts that reference Hronek or his likeness. Thank you for your cooperation.

 

[Filppula]

Griffins up 3-1 mid stages of third.

Swedes dominating this one. Goals by Berggren, Soderblom and Edvinsson. Ed’s first goal since December 8th.

 

[schuelma24]

win 4-1. 15 straight games with at least a point i think.

 

[David D]

Did Cossa play? And for those that watch GR often, how has Kasper been playing as far as his aggressive ornery play as i think that will be his calling card in the NHL and chip in 40-50pts player