Prospect Info: Grand Rapids Griffins Discussion

[Konnan511]

Magnus Hellberg also 40/42 last night.

 

[SirloinUB]

Albert Johansson scores his first tonight

I don't know if a disappointing start is a fair characterization of his season so far, but it's definitely been quiet. I remember in training camp some posters had him ahead of Edvinsson.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I don't know if a disappointing start is a fair characterization of his season so far, but it's definitely been quiet. I remember in training camp some posters had him ahead of Edvinsson.

He’s playing bottom pair for Simon and being put in a defensive role. I’m just about any other AHL team he’s be 2nd pair at a minimum. Anytime I’ve watched GR this year Johansson is flat out NOT skating the puck up ice to evade pressure like in Sweden. He’s chipping it off the boards or flipping to the middle. It’s ugly and 100% coaching.

 

[norrisnick]

He’s playing bottom pair for Simon and being put in a defensive role. I’m just about any other AHL team he’s be 2nd pair at a minimum. Anytime I’ve watched GR this year Johansson is flat out NOT skating the puck up ice to evade pressure like in Sweden. He’s chipping it off the boards or flipping to the middle. It’s ugly and 100% coaching.

It's like I said about Ed. For guys this close, the AHL is just going to teach them how to be AHL defensemen when they should be learning how to be NHL defensemen.

 

[SirloinUB]

He’s playing bottom pair for Simon and being put in a defensive role. I’m just about any other AHL team he’s be 2nd pair at a minimum. Anytime I’ve watched GR this year Johansson is flat out NOT skating the puck up ice to evade pressure like in Sweden. He’s chipping it off the boards or flipping to the middle. It’s ugly and 100% coaching.

The bolded is disappointing.

The fact that he bumped Sebrango down to the ECHL is somewhat encouraging.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

It's like I said about Ed. For guys this close, the AHL is just going to teach them how to be AHL defensemen when they should be learning how to be NHL defensemen.

That’s one of my gripes about the AHL. I think it’s a good league for bottom 6 guys to learn how to play simple, grind it out hockey but I’m less a fan of putting high skill guys there and dumbing down their games.

Let them play their game, and let them deal with the grind. Johansson is an elite skater that can score goals sneaking in from the point. I don’t want to turn him into Olli Maatta.

 

[norrisnick]

That’s one of my gripes about the AHL. I think it’s a good league for bottom 6 guys to learn how to play simple, grind it out hockey but I’m less a fan of putting high skill guys there and dumbing down their games.

Let them play their game, and let them deal with the grind. Johansson is an elite skater that can score goals sneaking in from the point. I don’t want to turn him into Olli Maatta.

Or kids coming out of Junior that need some games running and getting run by full grown men before they go full tilt at NHL speed. For guys with multiple pro-years in Europe... largely a waste.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Or kids coming out of Junior that need some games running and getting run by full grown men before they go full tilt at NHL speed. For guys with multiple pro-years in Europe... largely a waste.

This is a lot of what I see when watching the AHL.

 

[norrisnick]

This is a lot of what I see when watching the AHL.

I can't watch AHL hockey. It just makes me mad. Everything is just so slow to develop. The passing is atrocious. It's just guys flinging handgrenades at each other when none of them can receive a pass cleanly anyway. Everything is preceded by 2-3 stickhandles. It's ugly and I can't take it.

 

[NickH8]

He’s playing bottom pair for Simon and being put in a defensive role. I’m just about any other AHL team he’s be 2nd pair at a minimum. Anytime I’ve watched GR this year Johansson is flat out NOT skating the puck up ice to evade pressure like in Sweden. He’s chipping it off the boards or flipping to the middle. It’s ugly and 100% coaching.

It's like I said about Ed. For guys this close, the AHL is just going to teach them how to be AHL defensemen when they should be learning how to be NHL defensemen.

Huge agree here. I have not liked how the Griffins have had their dmen playing.

 

[FabricDetails]

This is a lot of what I see when watching the AHL.

Quite the image for the next time we hear about a prospect who'd rather develop in the SHL.

 

[SirloinUB]

Or kids coming out of Junior that need some games running and getting run by full grown men before they go full tilt at NHL speed. For guys with multiple pro-years in Europe... largely a waste.

You say this while ignoring the fact that Edvinsson has 84 games of pro experience. Prior to this season that number was actually 68 games of pro experience including 14 games in the Swedish tier 2 league.

 

[norrisnick]

You say this while ignoring the fact that Edvinsson has 84 games of pro experience. Prior to this season that number was actually 68 games of pro experience including 14 games in the Swedish tier 2 league.

More than one is multiple.

 

[SirloinUB]

More than one is multiple.

Sick semantics.

While he technically played “multiple seasons” his pro hockey experience is minimal. 84 games is essentially one NHL season, except in Edvinsson’s case, it has been spread out over 3 years. And for that entire 3 year period he’s been a teenager, in a growing body often playing limited minutes and/or limited special teams opportunities.

You’re entitled to your opinion on how to best serve his development, however, your entire narrative about Edvinsson’s “Pro Hockey Experience” is a misrepresentation of reality. This is a young kid who was labeled as “raw” by many scouts for a reason. He is inexperienced, young and developing.

Now, whether his inexperience holds him back at the next level is fair game to question. But, make not mistake about it, he is inexperienced.

 

[Henkka]

Edvinsson has

54 SHL games
14 Allsvenskan games
6 Allsvenskan playoff games
6 SHL playoff games
10 Champions League games
16 AHL games
--------------------
106 games at pro Leagues.

Inexperienced yeah, but has been for a while in men's leagues devoping with men.

Guy like Donovan Sebrango has 115 pro games, so they are quite at equal points of their careers.

Seider played 150 pro league games, before promoted to NHL. Also 48 games for Team Germany.

That's almost 200 pro-games before NHL.

Now, with NHL games included, he has played +300 pro games, and is currently struggling at NHL.

 

[Pavels Dog]

He’s chipping it off the boards or flipping to the middle. It’s ugly and 100% coaching.

Confidence plays into it as well. I would hesitate to blame coaching 100% since Edvinsson is looking comfortable taking risks and carrying the puck.

I don't know if a disappointing start is a fair characterization of his season so far, but it's definitely been quiet. I remember in training camp some posters had him ahead of Edvinsson.

Johansson was typically a slow starter in SHL too.

First 20 games

19/20 - 5 Points (8 Points next 22)
20/21 - 7 Points (12 Points next 24)

Even last season his play in the second half+playoffs was far superior to his first half.

"Quiet" is pretty good for Johansson since the biggest question was how he would handle the physicality and forechecking.

 

[RedHawkDown]

Simon definitely has to go. His style stifles the offensive development of our prospects.

 

[barriers]

 

[Filppula]

McIsaac scores the OT winner. 11 points in 22 games. Those who have seen him this season, what’s his defensive game been like? Touch wood he seems to be over his injury concerns that cost him so much crucial development time. But how’s his strength, play without the puck? Is he still a viable NHL prospect? I hope so, I’ve always liked him.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

McIsaac scores the OT winner. 11 points in 22 games. Those who have seen him this season, what’s his defensive game been like? Touch wood he seems to be over his injury concerns that cost him so much crucial development time. But how’s his strength, play without the puck? Is he still a viable NHL prospect? I hope so, I’ve always liked him.

Not as physical as he was before. He’s slightly better on defense than last year but still leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[Bondurant]

Griffins selling real tickets at box office or only sending QR codes to phones or ticketing app?

 

[Mister Ed]

Not as physical as he was before. He’s slightly better on defense than last year but still leaves a lot to be desired.

Which can be expected when he's had so many shoulder injuries. I was high on him as a prospect. Now, he's in Hicketts territory - good in the AHL but lacking in every aspect to get to the next step.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Which can be expected when he's had so many shoulder injuries. I was high on him as a prospect. Now, he's in Hicketts territory - good in the AHL but lacking in every aspect to get to the next step.

That's kind of my point. At one point in time I was expecting McIsaac to develop into a solid, 20 point a year 4th/5th defender who could play physical. Now...not so much.

 

[Henkka]

I don't really expect any kind of point-scoring from McIsaac. Or determine him via points.

He was projected to be shut-down pair defenceman, the more defensive partner or the pair. Kind of what Chiarot tries to be for Seider. Or what Määttä is for Hronek.

"Not so PP defenceman, our scouts described him."

I think he has some chance, to become 3rd pair guy some day in NHL. But not much more.

 

[Christien]

Griffins have been so disappointing this season.

WTF happened to Hanas?