Grade Cheveldayoff's offseaon

[GCn07]

That's fine. Apparently Chevy does too. But there is no denying that we are cap squeezed.

So what? Why is cap squeezed a bad thing? I want us to be cap squeezed every year. It's not like there are zero solutions every year to this problem. We could be a team that spends to the salary cap floor and build through the draft lottery. Would that be better? I really don't see the problem you are seeing. We have a pipeline of nice prospects up and down each line and on defence that will come into their own and allow us to move on from players that represent poor salary cap value as their contracts age out. At the very worst, we may have to pay someone to take a salary cap problem off our hands but as long as their are Arizona's in the league it's doable.

We could flounder around the mid card of the NHL, or you can make a couple moves and open up a window to the main event (to steal some wrestling terms). I respect Chevy's decision to open that window, even if it means rebuilding afterwards. At least it's a commitment to the fans, and very importantly, the players that this is a team that is not content with a one and done in the playoffs year after year. This keeps your elite players happy, and it also attracts players in time of need. There are a ton of teams content in simply making the playoffs. I am glad we are a team that will work towards opening a window and when it's time we will actually commit to doing so.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I get what you're saying. But I don’t buy into your assumption that just getting Dillon was good enough and we didn't need to do more. Presumably moving up Heinola and/or Samburg.
Our defense was so bad last year, just adding one new guy and hoping the youngsters do well doesn’t cut it imo.
We might get a little cap relief if we waive or trade Booboo.
I feel like we needed to get two proven D and still have Heinola and Samburg to integrate slowly into the NHL. Yes I know Schmidt had an off year, but has had a pretty good career otherwise.
I think Chevy did what he had to, to improve this team and not waste anymore years of our not as young anymore core and go all in.

I'm already assuming that BooBoo is gone. It leaves us with not quite but almost nothing.

I don't deny your point. We needed more than just one - but surely 1 of Heinola/Samberg should be that by now.

I'm assuming Schmidt will be better than last year. My point is not about him living up to his contract. That is a separate question. It is about could we afford him when we had alternatives (Heinola/Samberg)?

Maybe those prospects are not as good as we are expecting them to be. If that is the case, then I don't have a case. It might be painful, but it was necessary.

 

[surixon]

Backup is my first thought. You may have a point about allocation of resources but I think that if you really want to contend you need 2 goalies. Your "minute munching" starter needs more rest than he wants. Goalies always want to play every game, but they play better with some rest. Then there is the risk of your starter being injured.

Fleshing out the bottom 6 is next on the list. IDK how you can say that all we need is 4th liners. Having kept Copp for 1 more year still leaves us needing a 3RW. Everyone is just assuming that Vesalainen is ready for that but he is entirely unproven and a natural LW.

We aren't going to get better than Harkins on waivers, even if he disappoints a bit.

Finally, a mil or two of breathing space will almost certainly be needed through the season. I can see how we get to our roster for the 1st game, but IDK what we are going to do when injuries hit.

Most contending teams with a big ticket goalie do not go much over league minimum on their backups. Tampa is spending 900k this year and spent the same last year.

Ok so we have one third line slot open and last year it was filled by a young player who wasn't that seasoned and he performed well in it. I'm confident with this orga ability to evaluate the readiness of our young talent. If Chevy and Moe think Ves or that Russian player we just inked to a PTO can fill it then I'm fairly confident in it.

Also Lowry and Copp tend to make the third winger look good so we can get away with a less proven option there.

As with everything sure it could be better but I'm pretty happy with where we sit. It's the best roster with the least amount of question marks that we've had going into a season imo. Those question marks are also at relatively easy to replace positions so even if things don't work we will have inseason options.


The org will have to decide if they want to bring Copp back at 5 million a year next year but if not there are always third line players on the FA market that can be had cheaper if need be.

 

[KingBogo]

I'm already assuming that BooBoo is gone. It leaves us with not quite but almost nothing.

I don't deny your point. We needed more than just one - but surely 1 of Heinola/Samberg should be that by now.

I'm assuming Schmidt will be better than last year. My point is not about him living up to his contract. That is a separate question. It is about could we afford him when we had alternatives (Heinola/Samberg)?

Maybe those prospects are not as good as we are expecting them to be. If that is the case, then I don't have a case. It might be painful, but it was necessary.

We are in our drafted cores prime window. Getting a couple 30 y/o proven defenseman for the top 4 is exactly what Chevy needed to do. There is plenty of time for Heinola and Samberg. Heinola is just starting his ELC and Samberg is only in year 2. And no neither would be ready for a heavy top 4 role on a contender.

 

[ps241]

We are in our drafted cores prime window. Getting a couple 30 y/o proven defenseman for the top 4 is exactly what Chevy needed to do. There is plenty of time for Heinola and Samberg. Heinola is just starting his ELC and Samberg is only in year 2. And no neither would be ready for a heavy top 4 role on a contender.

The downside is Heinola and Samberg may not get as many games as the fans would like. The upside is they will be eased in and fairly sheltered within a solid D core. It’s not a bad way to learn. There are always injuries to D cores so they (one or both) should get to see their fair share of action. Just pretty please don’t have BooBoo eat 40-50 games of inventory.

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

The downside is Heinola and Samberg may not get as many games as the fans would like. The upside is they will be eased in and fairly sheltered within a solid D core. It’s not a bad way to learn. There are always injuries to D cores so they (one or both) should get to see their fair share of action. Just pretty please don’t have BooBoo eat 40-50 games of inventory.

An 82 game season with any sort of playoff run is a marathon, one that requires depth to handle inevitable injuries.

Heinola and Samburg will get their chances this season and they need to be ready to handle the minutes when they come.

Having both play big minutes with the Moose to start the season only makes sense.

 

[LowLefty]

The downside is Heinola and Samberg may not get as many games as the fans would like. The upside is they will be eased in and fairly sheltered within a solid D core.
It’s not a bad way to learn. There are always injuries to D cores so they (one or both) should get to see their fair share of action. Just pretty please don’t have BooBoo eat 40-50 games of inventory.

With our improved D, there is now added pressure on our best prospects to work, progress and develop to the next level.

I agree, it's not a bad way to learn - I'd argue its the preferred method.
There is now no rush to squeeze these guys into the lineup and there is more emphasis on the player working their way in.

In the long run, the org benefits and the prospects benefit (IMO).
It will be interesting to watch - who's prepared to buy into the concept of working even harder to progress versus those that might feel they are entitled.

I'm not suggesting either are in the later camp but I am suggesting the situation will push them harder.

 

[Farmerjetsfan]

As we have seen this year, even mediocre defence man can get traded for decent returns. If Heinola and/or Samberg can force they way into the lineup next year, or if jets need cap room they should not have a problem moving a veteran defence man.

 

[ps241]

An 82 game season with any sort of playoff run is a marathon, one that requires depth to handle inevitable injuries.

Heinola and Samburg will get their chances this season and they need to be ready to handle the minutes when they come.

Having both play big minutes with the Moose to start the season only makes sense.

With our improved D, there is now added pressure on our best prospects to work, progress and develop to the next level.

I agree, it's not a bad way to learn - I'd argue its the preferred method.
There is now no rush to squeeze these guys into the lineup and there is more emphasis on the player working their way in.

In the long run, the org benefits and the prospects benefit (IMO).
It will be interesting to watch - who's prepared to buy into the concept of working even harder to progress versus those that might feel they are entitled.

I'm not suggesting either are in the later camp but I am suggesting the situation will push them harder.

It will be interesting to watch as the season unfolds. The NHL is a league you have to claw and scratch to optimize yourself. Even the top guys like McDavid and Crosby are notoriously "the" hardest workers. I think its been one of the issues Laine has encountered in that goals came to him pretty easily when he was a teenager and since then not so much. Is he clawing and scratching to improve or is the 24 year old (this April) in his draft + 6 season sticking to the entitlement and complaining plan? I can't speak to his off season training but he has yet to have that Lowry, Scheifele, Morrissey, Stanley physical transformation off season yet.

When it comes to Heinola and Samberg I think I had talked myself into thinking they were ready now because I assumed we would need them this season full time. I think if they were "there" beyond a doubt Chevy wouldn't have added both Schmidt and Dillon. Development is always a dynamic situation and either one or both of them could prove this season they are ready now. We have an obvious window where some of our value contracts exist. Chevy has decided to not to leave it to chance. We have had huge holes to fill since the 2019 D exodus and "on paper" Chevy has rebuilt our D core now. We also have prized affordable assets for depth. It remains to be seen how the group will come together and impact the overall team effects. I will say for the first time in 3 seasons I am not cringing looking at the patchwork quilt D roster.

 

[untouchable21]

If the Jets accomplish the unthinkable and climb the hockey mountain in June of 2022 then that would have my vote for the EA NHL 23 cover!!!

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

So what? Why is cap squeezed a bad thing? I want us to be cap squeezed every year. It's not like there are zero solutions every year to this problem. We could be a team that spends to the salary cap floor and build through the draft lottery. Would that be better? I really don't see the problem you are seeing. We have a pipeline of nice prospects up and down each line and on defence that will come into their own and allow us to move on from players that represent poor salary cap value as their contracts age out. At the very worst, we may have to pay someone to take a salary cap problem off our hands but as long as their are Arizona's in the league it's doable.

We could flounder around the mid card of the NHL, or you can make a couple moves and open up a window to the main event (to steal some wrestling terms). I respect Chevy's decision to open that window, even if it means rebuilding afterwards. At least it's a commitment to the fans, and very importantly, the players that this is a team that is not content with a one and done in the playoffs year after year. This keeps your elite players happy, and it also attracts players in time of need. There are a ton of teams content in simply making the playoffs. I am glad we are a team that will work towards opening a window and when it's time we will actually commit to doing so.

Being at the cap floor and being cap squeezed are not the only options.

What's wrong with being cap squeezed is the lack of flexibility. It is the lack of headroom needed to replace injured players. How do you propose doing that with no cap space? It forces bad decisions, like going into the season without an adequate backup goalie.

You are assuming there were no options. We had options. Possibly better ones.

I'm not criticizing Chevy for trying. I am suggesting that he might, just maybe, have taken an unnecessary extra step that has put us in a tight spot.

The responses I'm getting to that suggestion are all just criticizing me for raising the question or denying the existence of the issue. No one has responded with an explanation of how we deal with injuries. No one has responded with a practical answer to the backup goalie situation. The closest to rational discussion I can recall right now pointed out that we didn't have a better use of all of the 5 mil we might have saved.

I suggest that we had good use for about half of it and the other half would have mostly been chewed up for injury replacements.

I'm not saying that I don't like the rebuilt D corps.

 

[untouchable21]

There is a difference between liking your coach and respecting your coach.

We shall see just how well this team plays for him this season. He should have all the pieces he needs to play a good aggressive brand of hockey.

Yeah, liking your coach to the point of taking advantage of his weakness. Wheeler knows Maurice adores him and won’t want to rustle his feathers by demoting him even though there may be someone more deserving of that top line spot.

Until I see it happen, I won’t believe we get the most of this lineup. At some point you’d think Wheeler would have leadership enough to take a step back and hand over the reigns, but he is an ALPHA male so who knows.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Most contending teams with a big ticket goalie do not go much over league minimum on their backups. Tampa is spending 900k this year and spent the same last year.

Ok so we have one third line slot open and last year it was filled by a young player who wasn't that seasoned and he performed well in it. I'm confident with this orga ability to evaluate the readiness of our young talent. If Chevy and Moe think Ves or that Russian player we just inked to a PTO can fill it then I'm fairly confident in it.

Also Lowry and Copp tend to make the third winger look good so we can get away with a less proven option there.

As with everything sure it could be better but I'm pretty happy with where we sit. It's the best roster with the least amount of question marks that we've had going into a season imo. Those question marks are also at relatively easy to replace positions so even if things don't work we will have inseason options.


The org will have to decide if they want to bring Copp back at 5 million a year next year but if not there are always third line players on the FA market that can be had cheaper if need be.

VGK is paying 2.325 for a backup. Avs are paying 2 mil. Canes are paying 2 mil. Isles haven't signed their RFA backup yet, but he got 2 mil last year. Pens are paying 1.25 mil. TML are paying 1.65 mil.

You are citing confidence in the org. That is an appeal to authority. Does that authority think that Heinola and Samberg are overrated? Failing to live up to their promise? Not developing as hoped?

Do they think that Harkins, Ves, Svech, Gus are that ready and able? Or are they what we are getting because we are out of cap space? If those guys are so ready and able, then why are Heinola and Samberg not?

I would not want to make a big deal of it, because I think Copp has always been angling for UFA, but we just might have signed Copp for 4 years for 4.5 or something like that if we had had more space. I'm not too unhappy with Copp walking next year. I don't think he is worth 5, at least not to us.

I agree that that its the best roster with the fewest questions that we have had in quite a while. That is totally beside my point. I think we could have had that without Schmidt. I see very little potential for in season options.

I'm not saying that our roster is bad - except for backup goalie. I'm saying we could have had as good a roster without Schmidt. We could have had room to retain Brossoit and replace injured players. I think we are going to miss both of those things through the season.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

We are in our drafted cores prime window. Getting a couple 30 y/o proven defenseman for the top 4 is exactly what Chevy needed to do. There is plenty of time for Heinola and Samberg. Heinola is just starting his ELC and Samberg is only in year 2. And no neither would be ready for a heavy top 4 role on a contender.

Neither would need to play a top 4 role.

But - again, I am not complaining about the roster, except for backup goalie. I'm saying that Chevy overspent to get it here. Lack of an adequate backup being one consequence.

 

[untouchable21]

If Comrie is awful, we just pick up a goalie off waiver wire or sign another backup... it’s not rocket science

If Chevy has as much confidence in Comrie as he does in his head coach then we won’t be picking up anyone else. Instead riding it out and hoping for better results with the same unqualified backup.

 

[DRW204]

If Chevy has as much confidence in Comrie as he does in his head coach then we won’t be picking up anyone else. Instead riding it out and hoping for better results with the same unqualified backup.

he has already been waived twice by the jets.

 

[Whileee]

The Jets have 3 potential back-up goalies (Comrie, Berdin and Holm). I think it's almost impossible to predict how they will pan out, though I haven't been encouraged by Comrie's play at the NHL level. As an example, the Leafs' starter (Campbell) was a journeyman bouncing around between the ECHL, AHL and NHL for several years with mediocre results before seeming to figure it all out. I'll wait and see before worrying about the backup goalie, which seems to be the most rational approach.

Goalies are "voodoo".

 

[surixon]

VGK is paying 2.325 for a backup. Avs are paying 2 mil. Canes are paying 2 mil. Isles haven't signed their RFA backup yet, but he got 2 mil last year. Pens are paying 1.25 mil. TML are paying 1.65 mil.

You are citing confidence in the org. That is an appeal to authority. Does that authority think that Heinola and Samberg are overrated? Failing to live up to their promise? Not developing as hoped?

Do they think that Harkins, Ves, Svech, Gus are that ready and able? Or are they what we are getting because we are out of cap space? If those guys are so ready and able, then why are Heinola and Samberg not?

I would not want to make a big deal of it, because I think Copp has always been angling for UFA, but we just might have signed Copp for 4 years for 4.5 or something like that if we had had more space. I'm not too unhappy with Copp walking next year. I don't think he is worth 5, at least not to us.

I agree that that its the best roster with the fewest questions that we have had in quite a while. That is totally beside my point. I think we could have had that without Schmidt. I see very little potential for in season options.

I'm not saying that our roster is bad - except for backup goalie. I'm saying we could have had as good a roster without Schmidt. We could have had room to retain Brossoit and replace injured players. I think we are going to miss both of those things through the season.

None of those orgs have a proven big minute munching goalie now do they? Kuemper has played over 31 games in a season just once in his career, Lehner has only two years with a solid starter workload and none of it has been in the last 3 seasons, Andersen has been mediocre and poor the last few seasons as a starter etc. Does it not make sense in each of those situations that the orgs would need a quality backup as each of their starters has question marks.

I am talking about big name consistiently elite goalies that play a lot. Helle has a vezina win, a nomination and a top 5 finish in his 4 years. He's about as close to a sure thing as you can get at the position. Why waste $2 million on a backup in our situation.

Sure it's appeal to authority but it's based on a strong track record with regards to us being able to graduate players for those roles so yes I'm confident in our kids being able to do the job.

I would have been fine graduating our young players on defense but I'm quite fine with Schmidt, which one of Samberg/Heinola have proven they can play on their offside as a pro so far, let alone as a top pairing guy? I think that is asking a lot for a rookie and I'm ok with bringing in a player who has shown he can do it. I'm also good with keeping DeMelo on the third pairing where he makes that pairing a major plus for thr team.

 

[untouchable21]

he has already been waived twice by the jets.

And yet brought back. Now claiming him to be the solution to the backup position.

 

[tbcwpg]

Neither would need to play a top 4 role.

But - again, I am not complaining about the roster, except for backup goalie. I'm saying that Chevy overspent to get it here. Lack of an adequate backup being one consequence.

The NHL is like the current housing market - you often need to overspend to get in. I think Comrie will be ok with what I'm assuming to be an improved defensive system. He just needs to play enough that Helle doesn't get too overworked before the playoffs.

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

It will be interesting to watch as the season unfolds. The NHL is a league you have to claw and scratch to optimize yourself. Even the top guys like McDavid and Crosby are notoriously "the" hardest workers. I think its been one of the issues Laine has encountered in that goals came to him pretty easily when he was a teenager and since then not so much. Is he clawing and scratching to improve or is the 24 year old (this April) in his draft + 6 season sticking to the entitlement and complaining plan? I can't speak to his off season training but he has yet to have that Lowry, Scheifele, Morrissey, Stanley physical transformation off season yet.

When it comes to Heinola and Samberg I think I had talked myself into thinking they were ready now because I assumed we would need them this season full time. I think if they were "there" beyond a doubt Chevy wouldn't have added both Schmidt and Dillon. Development is always a dynamic situation and either one or both of them could prove this season they are ready now. We have an obvious window where some of our value contracts exist. Chevy has decided to not to leave it to chance. We have had huge holes to fill since the 2019 D exodus and "on paper" Chevy has rebuilt our D core now. We also have prized affordable assets for depth. It remains to be seen how the group will come together and impact the overall team effects. I will say for the first time in 3 seasons I am not cringing looking at the patchwork quilt D roster.

I think Chevy sees a 3 year window where he can ice a capped team with depth at every position and prospects ready to step in when needed, to truly go for it. If that comes at the expense of an extra year or 2 before some of our youngsters to step in, that is the price you pay for going for it.

It is no different that rookies trying to crack Tampa's lineup or the Avs. You need to displace someone through skill and development, nothing granted or given.

The goal is by year three to have Heinola and Samburg pushing for Demelo, Schmidt and Dillion's jobs because they are playing at a higher more consistent level. If that happens chances are we are challenging for a cup.

Cup potential D core by 2023/24:

Morrissey Heinola
Pionk Schmidt
Samberg Stanley
Dillion

Up front Perfetti should be leading his own line, Gus, Ves and Harkins should be solidified in the lineup, and maybe even Lucious is stepping in.

The beauty about our current situation is, once one window closes, a new one instantly opens as we keep drafting so well.

 

[DRW204]

And yet brought back. Now claiming him to be the solution to the backup position.

so it's nothing like the head coach. when has maurice been waived/released by chevy ?

perhaps there's aspects in comrie's game that have improved since he was last with the jets in 2019? & the staff think they can work with him? idk, just trying to think positively b/c i dont love the acquisition either.

 

[KingBogo]

Neither would need to play a top 4 role.

But - again, I am not complaining about the roster, except for backup goalie. I'm saying that Chevy overspent to get it here. Lack of an adequate backup being one consequence.

I’m willing to give Comrie a chance in that role even though he has been underwhelming to date. I see it as loyalty move and likely his last chance at the NHL level. It is also something that isn’t that difficult to address if needed later on.

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

I’m willing to give Comrie a chance in that role even though he has been underwhelming to date. I see it as loyalty move and likely his last chance at the NHL level. It is also something that isn’t that difficult to address if needed later on.

Here is something I would like to see with Eric, before we pull the plug on him. I would like to see what he can do with 10 NHL games within a 2 month span.

I would like for Maurice to tell him the exact 10 games he will get, allow him all 10 even if he sucks in the first 2 or 3, to give him some sorta confidence in knowing his NHL career wont depend on his first couple of starts.

His entire NHL career is 9 games spread out through 5 seasons. He plays each game like his entire career depends on it, since he knows if he sucks he aint seeing the ice for months/years.

He has always played nervous to me with the Jets, and loose and relaxed with the Moose. 10 games will let him settle in, get some confidence and feel like he can make a mistake or have a bad game without his career ending.

 

[enuffidiotsalready]

Here is something I would like to see with Eric, before we pull the plug on him. I would like to see what he can do with 10 NHL games within a 2 month span. I would like for Maurice to tell him the exact 10 games he will get, allow him all 10 even if he sucks in the first 2 or 3, and give his some sorta confidence in knowing his NHL career wont depend on his first couple of starts.

His entire NHL career is 9 games spread out through 5 seasons. He plays each game like his entire career depends on it, since he knows if he sucks he aint seeing the ice for months/years.

He has always played nervous to me with the Jets, and loose and relaxed with the Moose. 10 games will let him settle in, get some confidence and feel like he make a mistake, have a bad game his career is not over.

good points
maybe goaltending doesn't need to be voodoo