Management GM Pierre Dorion/Front Office Thread - Part VIII

[Tuna99]

Fans “rebuild seems to be going well”

Dorion “the rebuild is over”

Fans “REALLY! Mmmkay, I don’t think we’ll be that good this year”

At 20 games

Dorion “the rebuild is back on”

 

[TheDebater]

I mean, if we're being honest, we're winning games because of the of the young core players Dorion has assembled. Which bodes really really well for the future.

It's not like we're winning games off the backs of ageing vets we could have kept.

Nobody would or should ever tell you that Dorion has been a complete failure. He can still be a bad G.M who has done some great things like certain draft picks, signing Chabot and Batherson to great deals, etc.

It is about the moves he is making that are hurting the team moving forward that make us question whether or not he is capable of taking the next step and going from re-build to contender.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Paul has looked more like himself playing down the lineup today.
The Paul Gambrell Watson line has been effective in their role

 

[swiftwin]

I also find it a bit silly that we're so fixated on minor deals like MDZ, when his two biggest moves this offseason were signing Tkachuk and Batherson to long term deals. With the Batherson deal looking like it could be the best deal of any player in the NHL.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

I also find it a bit silly that we're so fixated on minor deals like MDZ, when his two biggest moves this offseason were signing Tkachuk and Batherson to long term deals. With the Batherson deal looking like it could be the best deal of any player in the NHL.

If only he added a top 4 D. That's the thing with Dorion, he needs to do not what's obvious, but what's needed.

He doesn't have the killer instinct we need. And we will need it this off-season to make the next jump.

 

[SENSational]

As bad as Dorion is with pro evaluation, the Tkachuk and especially the Bath contracts are a home run.

Team image needs to majorly improve for the team to attract better FAs. The only way for that to happen is to get a new owner.

 

[SensFactor]

I want to see this team at full power next year with guys like Pinto, Sanderson, Greig, Crookshank, JBD, Boucher healthy and a year older

 

[NyQuil]

I also find it a bit silly that we're so fixated on minor deals like MDZ, when his two biggest moves this offseason were signing Tkachuk and Batherson to long term deals. With the Batherson deal looking like it could be the best deal of any player in the NHL.

It's just such a brain fart that I can't comprehend it.

Why give MDZ two years? This is a guy that was signed to a PTO.

There are deals that are universally disliked from the get go by pretty much every fan that really make you wonder.

A deal like Matt Duchene, I don't get as upset because I understand the rationale and what he was trying to do.

Murray, Stepan, DZ, these were intended to fill a need that we didn't even have.

 

[swiftwin]

If only he added a top 4 D. That's the thing with Dorion, he needs to do not what's obvious, but what's needed.

He doesn't have the killer instinct we need. And we will need it this off-season to make the next jump.

He did add Holden, who's been quite solid for us.

 

[Loach]

If only he added a top 4 D. That's the thing with Dorion, he needs to do not what's obvious, but what's needed.

He doesn't have the killer instinct we need. And we will need it this off-season to make the next jump.

It takes him longer to do what other teams consider a nobrainer and then whifs on everything else.

 

[TheDebater]

I also find it a bit silly that we're so fixated on minor deals like MDZ, when his two biggest moves this offseason were signing Tkachuk and Batherson to long term deals. With the Batherson deal looking like it could be the best deal of any player in the NHL.

Honestly though how difficult is it for GM'S to sign their players to extensions? You know how many great RFA deals were signed this past summer? This arguement is weak, if the best move a GM makes over the summer is signing an RFA, then that says alot.

 

[HSF]

I also find it a bit silly that we're so fixated on minor deals like MDZ, when his two biggest moves this offseason were signing Tkachuk and Batherson to long term deals. With the Batherson deal looking like it could be the best deal of any player in the NHL.

he signed his own RFAs?

Is this how low the bar is set for Dorion?

Jim Benning should get the GM of the year award for signing Hughes and Petersson !

 

[swiftwin]

Honestly though how difficult is it for GM'S to sign their players to extensions? You know how many great RFA deals were signed this past summer? This arguement is weak, if the best move a GM makes over the summer is signing an RFA, then that says alot.

Sure, signing RFAs is not particularly hard. But signing them long term? At a good rate? Just look at how much Toronto is spending on their core. Matthew Tkachuk only signed a bridge with Calgary. Even this past offseason: Pettersson only signed a bridge deal. Kaprizov only 5yrs at $9m(!!).

Nailing down Tkachuk for 7yrs was a huge huge deal. And getting Batherson at $4.9m is a f***ing joke. Batherson needs to fire his agent.

 

[Micklebot]

I also find it a bit silly that we're so fixated on minor deals like MDZ, when his two biggest moves this offseason were signing Tkachuk and Batherson to long term deals. With the Batherson deal looking like it could be the best deal of any player in the NHL.

Signing your RFA is the expectation, failing to sign them would be a disaster. Realistically speaking, Batherson got what the market was getting for guys with his experience and statline. Him taking a huge leap forward makes it a great deal, not saying Dorion should get no credit, but the credit he gets should be related to what an expected outcome would have been. Every other team in the league likely gets Batherson to sign to a similar deal.

 

[HSF]

Sure, signing RFAs is not particularly hard. But signing them long term? At a good rate? Just look at how much Toronto is spending on their core. Matthew Tkachuk only signed a bridge with Calgary. Even this past offseason: Pettersson only signed a bridge deal. Kaprizov only 5yrs at $9m(!!).

Nailing down Tkachuk for 7yrs was a huge huge deal. And getting Batherson at $4.9m is a f***ing joke. Batherson needs to fire his agent.

tkachuk had to be overpaid for his production though to sign long term. Its the same for Toronto's core

signing your own RFAs is definitly good

batherson contract is pretty fair. Both sides are taking a risk signing it which makes it fair. On the flip side you have what happened to White

 

[swiftwin]

Signing your RFA is the expectation, failing to sign them would be a disaster. Realistically speaking, Batherson got what the market was getting for guys with his experience and statline. Him taking a huge leap forward makes it a great deal, not saying Dorion should get no credit, but the credit he gets should be related to what an expected outcome would have been. Every other team in the league likely gets Batherson to sign to a similar deal.

That's because Batherson should have signed a bridge deal. But Dorion has done a great job of building such a good atmosphere for these kids that Batherson took the risk of going 6yrs, knowing full well there was a chance he'd get severely underpaid. Then, Dorion stood his ground on getting Tkachuk to commit long term.

 

[TheDebater]

That's because Batherson should have signed a bridge deal. But Dorion has done a great job of building such a good atmosphere for these kids that Batherson took the risk of going 6yrs, knowing full well there was a chance he'd get severely underpaid. Then, Dorion stood his ground on getting Tkachuk to commit long term.

Everyone gave credit to Dorion for the Batherson deal and almost everyone supported Dorion during the Tkachuk negotiations knowing he would have to over pay, and when the deal was done, Dorion got a ton of "high fives" for nailing a 7 year term rather than 1-5.

With that said, why should those two good things he did give him more slack than he deserves for the multitude of terrible moves he has done?

Our point is that signing great RFA deals is not enough to justify making many many moves detrimental to the team's success.

 

[swiftwin]

Everyone gave credit to Dorion for the Batherson deal and almost everyone supported Dorion during the Tkachuk negotiations knowing he would have to over pay, and when the deal was done, Dorion got a ton of "high fives" for nailing a 7 year term rather than 1-5.

With that said, why should those two good things he did give him more slack than he deserves for the multitude of terrible moves he has done?

Our point is that signing great RFA deals is not enough to justify making many many moves detrimental to the team's success.

How many moves were detrimental this past off-season? MDZ? That's it? Mayyybe only extending Zub for 2yrs?

Good moves:
Tkachuk extension
Batherson extension
Forsberg extension
Holden + 3rd for Dadonov
Ennis as UFA
Gambrell for 7th
maybe Sanford (maybe this one is a wash)

 

[NyQuil]

I think you can admire some of our picks and scouting while at the same time bemoaning our professional acquisitions which have been almost universally bad, and in those few occasions where they weren’t, we generally let them go for nothing.

 

[PlayOn]

How many moves were detrimental this past off-season? MDZ? That's it? Mayyybe only extending Zub for 2yrs?

Good moves:
Tkachuk extension
Batherson extension
Forsberg extension
Holden + 3rd for Dadonov
Ennis as UFA
Gambrell for 7th
maybe Sanford (maybe this one is a wash)

Nothing Dorion has done (post-rebuild) is too detrimental by any stretch - except maybe the Matt Murray contract. Lots of his moves are minor even if they are head scratchers. I think the concern, or at least my concern, is we are now entering the stage where your pro acquisitions are the determining factor of how you progress and Dorion doesn’t inspire confidence in that regard. MDZ on his own is a nothing move, and I still don’t particularly care, but they add up. It’s also alarming that he was apparently brought into be a top four guy.

We’re not in a bad spot but if we continue to sign bad players we will be.

 

[Micklebot]

That's because Batherson should have signed a bridge deal. But Dorion has done a great job of building such a good atmosphere for these kids that Batherson took the risk of going 6yrs, knowing full well there was a chance he'd get severely underpaid. Then, Dorion stood his ground on getting Tkachuk to commit long term.

He should have signed a bridge deal? He signed the same type of deal farabee did, or Konecny, Erikson ek or White.

Lots of players sign with term as an RFA, there is no expectation that players won't sign with te unless you create an environment they want to leave. So congratulations I guess he got him to sign with term to a number every other team probably could have gotten too, in spite of stacking the deck against himself by building a team that has been mired in mediocrity if I'm being generous?

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

And getting Batherson at $4.9m is a f***ing joke. Batherson needs to fire his agent.

That was the going rate for players like him. Look at Farabee contract and the like. Brady got completely overpaid to the point that it's made some of us think Batherson was a steal. It definitely is NOW, in hindsight, but his contract was fair game at the time.

 

[Alex1234]

I also find it a bit silly that we're so fixated on minor deals like MDZ, when his two biggest moves this offseason were signing Tkachuk and Batherson to long term deals. With the Batherson deal looking like it could be the best deal of any player in the NHL.

Those were no brainer come on
Like saying Van did great signing Hughes
Every GM signs good players :
Sportsnet.ca

Good GMs don't make stupid mistakes over and over

 

[Masked]

A deal like Matt Duchene, I don't get as upset because I understand the rationale and what he was trying to do.

Murray, Stepan, DZ, these were intended to fill a need that we didn't even have.

Murray absolutely filled a need if he worked out.

I had no issues with bringing Stepan in since the center depth going into last season was mostly inexperienced, Tierney or Anisimov. I had an issue of giving up a second rounder for him. It was bad value for a piece that could have been useful.

MDZ seems like more of the same of what we had going into this season. Reports are he was decent last year in Columbus so maybe he took it easy in the offseason with the security of a 2 year deal.

Assen na yo.

 

[Sens Vader]

Keep the Mann bros and fire this pathetic excuse of a GM into the sun

Next off season is huge. Dumbass needs to leave so we can effectively build around the prospects and not spend 10mil on non roster players