Management GM Pierre Dorion/Front Office Thread - Part VIII

[coladin]

Even the owner himself said we needed a top 6 centre. All off-season posters here were coming up with trade proposals to acquire someone, so it's not like we were content with going in with Pinto as our #2. A properly built team shouldn't start the season with the centre depth we had, even with a healthy Pinto and White.

...and in all those proposals, how may packaged Thomson or Brannstrom? Maybe management should be congratulated for not biting to salvage a building season insetad of doing something dumb and trying to pick up a player that would ruin or set back what they have spent years putting into place

 

[coladin]

maybe, just maybe, some of us didnt flipflop because we thought Pinto should be a #3C to start his career and still think that now. But everything has to be black and white right

Good for you I guess, but you were in the minority. What is your point anyways?

 

[coladin]

Agreed. And Tierney was not cutting it.

We didn't have insulation in place like we did for Norris a year earlier, and injuries exacerbated the situation

This insulation question is what I don't understand. We don't want a Stepan as "insulation" do we? Anisimov? I don't know why people continue to wish for something that isn't available for this tie at this time. They are not going to move a prospect for a 2nd line center. Hell no. Do we want an underachiever like Strome? Aren't those the types of trades management should stay away from?

 

[Micklebot]

This insulation question is what I don't understand. We don't want a Stepan as "insulation" do we? Anisimov? I don't know why people continue to wish for something that isn't available for this tie at this time. They are not going to move a prospect for a 2nd line center. Hell no. Do we want an underachiever like Strome? Aren't those the types of trades management should stay away from?

I would have loved Reinhart,

Strome I wasn't keen on, but he plays wing too so he might have been a decent option both short and medium term and shouldn't have cost too much.

Trading prospects for a good second liner is fine, the issue is you need to find someone that will stick around for a while. I'd have given up prospects like Brannstrom or Thomson for Reinhart, still would.

 

[Cosmix]

Going into training camp, this was the center depth chart:

Full time NHLers
Norris
Tierney
White

Rookies (Playing for a top 9 role)
Pinto
LBrown

Part Time NHLers (Playing for a 4th line if neither rookie makes the team / 13th forward role if one of Brown/Pinto makes the team)
Bishop
Kelly (Rookie)

AHLers
Shaw
Agozzino
Kastelic

As training camp progressed, it looked clear that Pinto was easily going to beat out Logan Brown, so we traded Brown for Sanford on Sept 25 to help shore up the RW depth, effectively causing us to lose 4 centers in the span of a few weeks:

Sept 25: Lost Brown to trade
Sept 29: Lost Bishop to injury
Oct 4: Lost White to injury
Oct 20: Lost Pinto to injury

We probably would of held onto Brown if we had known these injures were coming.

The threesome of Norris, Tierney and White did not inspire c confidence in the centers at the start of the season. I think many if not most followers thought the team needed a top 6 center if not a #1 center at the start of the season. Pinto and L. Brown were not considered top 6 material by many posters. That was part of the reason why many thought the team would finish out of the playoffs again and some felt the team would be in the bottom quarter of the teams in the league. The injuries just made the situation worse. And here we are today at the bottom of the league.

 

[Cosmix]

Don’t forget about Pontus Aberg and Kole Sherwood, they were supposed to be the Sens #6 and 8 RW. Had they performed to expectation they’re probably scratching for the playoffs.

Those 2 are forgettable, as will be the acquisitions made by Dorion this season.

 

[Bileur]

Those 2 are forgettable, as will be the acquisitions made by Dorion this season.

Yeah that was very sarcastic

 

[HSF]

I know people are all like "Sens pinned their hopes on a kid with 12 NHL games." So what. No one complained around here. The guy is that type of player, clearly evident in everything he does. He is that type of guy, and yeah, he has 12 games, but when you know...you know. It is so funny, or sad, that people all of a sudden, who know what the Senators have in Shane Pinto, the disrespect, because they step on Pinto's head to get to their keyboard to blast Dorion. They are all out there, Mendes, Nichols, Stevenson, Lloyd, etc... lining up saying in hindsight, bad move. Well, any 2nd line center is going to be a big hole. But at least there is Colin White? Nope. He gone too

[mod edit]

I have beeeeen complaining.

I still think we should have went balls deep to get Eichel

So dumb that we passed on a franchise center who is signed long term

Many people were looking at trades for Ryan Strome, Monahan or Kadri

 

[Senator Stanley]

This insulation question is what I don't understand. We don't want a Stepan as "insulation" do we? Anisimov? I don't know why people continue to wish for something that isn't available for this tie at this time. They are not going to move a prospect for a 2nd line center. Hell no. Do we want an underachiever like Strome? Aren't those the types of trades management should stay away from?

I agree with this. Chris Tierney is our in-house version of crappy veteran insulation, and we all know how much value he provides. This discussion (starting with Dorion's excuse) also ignores the numerous other issues that would hold back this roster. We were never a veteran "2nd line" centre away from being good.

 

[HSF]

Without those injuries we will never know, but Pinto is a special player who simply earned everything he got last year, came to camp and pushed his way up to the 2nd line, and we don't know how good he could have been. Don't forget there was Calder talk. Hard to say without Covid, but I have no problem believing that they would be .500 right now

who did Pinto beat to be the 2C? Stepan, Tierney ?

Clearly pinto wasn't physically ready for the role. If you put a legit top 6 center on this roster Pinto wouldn't be the 2c

thats the whole point

 

[HSF]

This insulation question is what I don't understand. We don't want a Stepan as "insulation" do we? Anisimov? I don't know why people continue to wish for something that isn't available for this tie at this time. They are not going to move a prospect for a 2nd line center. Hell no. Do we want an underachiever like Strome? Aren't those the types of trades management should stay away from?

Eichel went for Krebs, Tuch and a protected 1st

sens should have easily beat that and added Eichel

 

[Boud]

Good for you I guess, but you were in the minority. What is your point anyways?

The team said in the offseason they would try and acquire a 2nd line center though.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Eichel went for Krebs, Tuch and a protected 1st

sens should have easily beat that and added Eichel

I think it was mentioned that the Sabres owner did not want JE traded to a team in the East, which is probably doubly so for a team within the division.

I remember thinking “so there’s that then” when I read it.

 

[LuckyPierre]

In the presser, Dorion was very cagey and defensive about his handling of Matt Murray.

The original question that came out about Matt Murray was completely cut off by Dorion after the name Matt Murray was uttered by a journalist. Don't even know what the question was, because Dorion abruptly interrupted and launched into scripted ass covering mode.

Then, a water carrying journalist in attendance simply wanted to follow up with a different angle on Matt Murray, and Dorion cut him off and said something to the effect of 'I answered the Matt Murray question already, and I think I covered it really well', when in actuality, he hadn't provided the answer the journalist was digging for.

The insecurity is palpable.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

In the presser, Dorion was very cagey and defensive about his handling of Matt Murray.

The original question that came out about Matt Murray was completely cut off by Dorion after the name Matt Murray was uttered by a journalist. Don't even know what the question was, because Dorion abruptly interrupted and launched into scripted ass covering mode.

Then, a water carrying journalist in attendance simply wanted to follow up with a different angle on Matt Murray, and Dorion cut him off and said something to the effect of 'I answered the Matt Murray question already, and I think I covered it really well', when in actuality, he hadn't provided the answer the journalist was digging for.

The insecurity is palpable.

He does this in interviews a lot too, it's not a new thing. The infamous Mendes interview was pretty awkward for that reason.

 

[coladin]

who did Pinto beat to be the 2C? Stepan, Tierney ?

Clearly pinto wasn't physically ready for the role. If you put a legit top 6 center on this roster Pinto wouldn't be the 2c

thats the whole point

White and Tierney.

I think that my point that it is very convenient to talk down Pinto to make management look bad stands. Most NHL publications had him as a Calder candidate. We also saw his complete game and sometimes, these players, as we see more and more in hockey today, make an immediate impact at the NHL level. Why would Pinto be different? Especially playing with Stutzle?

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

who did Pinto beat to be the 2C? Stepan, Tierney ?

Clearly pinto wasn't physically ready for the role. If you put a legit top 6 center on this roster Pinto wouldn't be the 2c

thats the whole point

Everyone knows how optimistic I am and I had Pinto literally starting in the AHL.

After seeing him be our best player in preseason, I thought to myself ok fine, 3rd or 4th line C then. The fact they expected him to be second like C off the bat like that and then blame injuries. Ridiculous incompetence.

In the presser, Dorion was very cagey and defensive about his handling of Matt Murray.

The original question that came out about Matt Murray was completely cut off by Dorion after the name Matt Murray was uttered by a journalist. Don't even know what the question was, because Dorion abruptly interrupted and launched into scripted ass covering mode.

Then, a water carrying journalist in attendance simply wanted to follow up with a different angle on Matt Murray, and Dorion cut him off and said something to the effect of 'I answered the Matt Murray question already, and I think I covered it really well', when in actuality, he hadn't provided the answer the journalist was digging for.

The insecurity is palpable.

Your username LOOOOOOOOOOOOL

 

[supsens]

I agree with this. Chris Tierney is our in-house version of crappy veteran insulation, and we all know how much value he provides. This discussion (starting with Dorion's excuse) also ignores the numerous other issues that would hold back this roster. We were never a veteran "2nd line" centre away from being good.

He provided a boatload of insulation. They threw him out there over his head and watched him get crushed all year. Saved Norris from having to deal with many crappy situations

 

[Qward]

Pinto came in out of college and had 7 points in 12 games and was a +6.

With a debut like that you can see why he was pencilled in over Tierney or White.

 

[HSF]

Pinto came in out of college and had 7 points in 12 games and was a +6.

With a debut like that you can see why he was pencilled in over Tierney or White.

ah yes the 12 game sample size to beat out two bottom 6 centers

none of these players should be the 2C this year on a team that was supposedly be more competitive

 

[Cosmix]

The team said in the offseason they would try and acquire a 2nd line center though.

They lied when it came down to the crunch. There was an opportunity and they blew it.

 

[Sens Vader]

He's brought in 10 million dollars worth of players his coach wont play

That's insane

Not to mention the shitty players in the lineup too

 

[SpezDispenser]

Pinto came in out of college and had 7 points in 12 games and was a +6.

With a debut like that you can see why he was pencilled in over Tierney or White.

Agreed.

He would have been pencilled over everyone except Norris, because he's better than everyone other than Norris right now. He got awkwardly hit, otherwise he'd be helping this team a lot right now imo.

 

[topshelf15]

They lied when it came down to the crunch. There was an opportunity and they blew it.

Yep most of knew that were never serious,just more BS ....They were in on every big name they will tell us though

 

[bert]

who did Pinto beat to be the 2C? Stepan, Tierney ?

Clearly pinto wasn't physically ready for the role. If you put a legit top 6 center on this roster Pinto wouldn't be the 2c

thats the whole point

Man you are really stretching every argument. First of all Eichel wouldn't have come here. The sens didn't 'pass' on getting him. He forced his way out of Buffalo and you think he wanted to come here.... Secondly the sens didn't have a comparable package to beat out what Buffalo got without gutting the teams core.

Pinto was not physically ready?! What are you talking about. He is 6'2 200. It was a freak injury with an awkward fall into the boards.

Yes they should have got someone for second line C but they didn't the GM is Pierre Dorion and the owner is melnyk. They are paying White and Tierney they weren't spending anymore. The lineup the team dressed was 48 million last night. This ownership is not commited to competing.