Management GM Pierre Dorion/Front Office Thread - Part IX [Mod Warning in post 1)

[Sens of Anarchy]

Not really. A bit of trolling the anti-org types is how I read it. Ian is jealous that PD's new bestie is DJ.

LOL

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I agree about Forsberg, and also about win and you’re in for the most part.

The flip side is that Starters don’t play as many games anymore so you need two guys that can play a serious amount of games rather than one guy playing them all and the other playing spot duty.

Yeah and I think if the coach would have more clearly set a starter (and maybe he did privately but he certainly did not publicly) them would be better for them maybe both would have played better. Starters don’t play as much as they do. But they know they’re the starter. And arent looking over their shoulder.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Not really. A bit of trolling the anti-org types is how I read it. Ian is jealous that PD's new bestie is DJ.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Not really. A bit of trolling the anti-org types is how I read it. Ian is jealous that PD's new bestie is DJ.

I don’t get it we’re Ian and PD besties before? Or were Ian and DJ best buddies before ?

 

[Do Make Say Think]

That's all some people do with Dorion.. Cut him some slack, every year.

It's like he has a government job where there are no repercussions and no accountability.

Two strikes.

If I don't have a boss and I know I'll be getting one real soon, I'm not getting into what the goals are next year when talking to the media.

He's a mediocre GM but that doesn't mean that his answer to that question was inadequate.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

What kind of answer is that? Is he not GM of the team?

I don’t know why he wouldn’t say playoffs. Just say your expectation is playoffs and then if you don’t make it you say yeah we didn’t meet expectations

 

[Tuna99]

He told Claire he’d answer her question in September, when he knew what his roster looked like.
Sorry you didn’t hear that part, or didn’t fit your narrative.

The fact he’s selling a successful season when his big moves Talbot, Joseph, ADB underperformed and his coach fell Flat on his face again - can’t believe people are buying this and feel he deserves another chance

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

The fact he’s selling a successful season when his big moves Talbot, Joseph, ADB underperformed and his coach fell Flat on his face again - can’t believe people are buying this and feel he deserves another chance

Tewna54, signing Giroux, Norris, and Stutzle were big home runs!

 

[Hale The Villain]

Can we all agree Dorion’s Senators:

A+ for amateur drafting and development

F- for pro player acquisitions and evaluations

I would disagree that our drafting has been A+ the last 6 years, but even if you were to believe that - we can always keep our scouting staff, which is responsible for the team's drafting and ditch the GM, who is responsible for evaluating and acquiring players. They aren't a package deal.

 

[SensHulk]

You just didn’t listen when all this was explained to you every year.

This is a you problem.

Did you listen? Mendes basically blew out this argument by providing facts so saying we the fans are the problem while you refuse to get your head out of the sand and see what Dorion truly is…that is a you problem.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I would disagree that our drafting has been A+ the last 6 years, but even if you were to believe that - we can always keep our scouting staff, which is responsible for the team's drafting and ditch the GM, who is responsible for evaluating and acquiring players. They aren't a package deal.

What’s an A+. Relative to the rest of the league our draft is upper tier.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

I would disagree that our drafting has been A+ the last 6 years, but even if you were to believe that - we can always keep our scouting staff, which is responsible for the team's drafting and ditch the GM, who is responsible for evaluating and acquiring players. They aren't a package deal.

To paraphrase a genius I know: “They are a team!”

 

[SensHulk]

Not really. A bit of trolling the anti-org types is how I read it. Ian is jealous that PD's new bestie is DJ.

You think Marek is also trolling? How about Claire Hanna holding Dorion accountable to describe what he means by ‘next step’? The informed and intelligent media can see what’s up but some of you will die on this hill of defending a dufus who is running the asylum with no accountability and gets to dodge questions that would hold him accountable.

 

[Hale The Villain]

What’s an A+. Relative to the rest of the league our draft is upper tier.

Under Trent Mann I'd say we're around middle of the pack in drafting, maybe slightly above average.

A+ would imply we've been one of the best drafting teams in the league, which I don't think is the case the last 6 years.

 

[Wondercarrot]

Easy to say in hindsight

go read the first 5 pages of the signing thread

Player Discussion - Cam Talbot (G)

WTF has gotten in to Dorion lately?? I liked Gus, but Talbot is still solid, he and Forsberg will make a nice tandem.

forums.hfboards.com

It’s almost as if Dorion is paid to make these decisions while the first 5 pages are fans whose jobs are not on the line for these decisions.

Seemed like a good idea at the time does strike me as a rigorous metric for evaluation lol

 

[Knave]

It’s almost as if Dorion is paid to make these decisions while the first 5 pages are fans whose jobs are not on the line for these decisions.

Seemed like a good idea at the time does strike me as a rigorous metric for evaluation lol

Sounds like a ringing endorsement and something that should be at the top of the CV.

Pierre Dorion, potentially better than anonymous fans on a message board but lets not get too strong in our language.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Under Trent Mann I'd say we're around middle of the pack in drafting, maybe slightly above average.

A+ would imply we've been one of the best drafting teams in the league, which I don't think is the case the last 6 years.

Average Drafting.. Big Hits in 2020 ; Mixed in 2017, 2018, 2019; Poor 2021; 2022?

looking at 2020 alone top marks

 

[Wondercarrot]

He told Claire he’d answer her question in September, when he knew what his roster looked like.
Sorry you didn’t hear that part, or didn’t fit your narrative.

What possible answer other than “we expect to make the playoffs” will be acceptable in September?!

I mean FFS in the same breath he said “I expect us to take it to the next level”… what level is that? Somewhere between 87 points and not the playoffs? It’s just silly….no matter what happens between now and September if the stated goal is anything other than we expect to make the playoffs then just fire he and DJ right now.
(and I’ve advocated for keeping them both).

 

[SensHulk]

What possible answer other than “we expect to make the playoffs” will be acceptable in September?!

I mean FFS in the same breath he said “I expect us to take it to the next level”… what level is that? Somewhere between 87 points and not the playoffs? It’s just silly….no matter what happens between now and September if the stated goal is anything other than we expect to make the playoffs then just fire he and DJ right now.
(and I’ve advocated for keeping them both).

Dude got exposed. He will only commit to incremental improvements.

The most damning part from Ian’s article…

By purposely withholding the word “playoffs” from his lexicon in recent years, Dorion has shielded himself from falling short of any external expectations.

After the hugely disappointing 2020-21 season — in which the Senators got off to an atrocious 1-8-1 start — Dorion said on May 14, 2021, “It was a good season for our team as far as progression. As a team, we took a big step forward this year.”

At the conclusion of the 2021-22 season, Dorion said on May 1, 2022, “We felt like we took a big step this year. Our core now, we feel can play against any core in the league.”

On Monday, he was once again extolling the virtues of a non-playoff team that is headed in the right direction.

“We’re starting to see the final product really blossom here,” Dorion said.

Rinse and repeat.

 

[Senator Stanley]

What’s an A+. Relative to the rest of the league our draft is upper tier.

The 2020 draft was an A+, but Mann has to be docked some points for what he's done since.

 

[Wondercarrot]

I find interesting that people will claim to be experts when it suits them, but when they are wrong ‘they aren’t the GM’ and can’t be expected to experts.

Had Talbot played to his usual level, and his usual injury free amount, it would have been tremendously helpful to our team.

Ian read the article in the Athletic about Hextall and felt he needed to hit his fans with his own weird attack article…

Who knew FYOUS would still be around to haunt us this long after EM’s demise!

Again that’s pretty rich coming from a guy who just called everyone on the board out that you like to take the actual words that people like Dorion etc say rather “made up bullshit that just gets repeated until they believe it’s true”
* it was a weird accusation (don’t worry I won’t take you calling me a liar personally) for which I then provided lots of quotes and evidence.
Kind of ironic right?

So what’s the deal? Dorion’s words not good enough for you in these cases?
Did Mendes misquote all of those words straight from Dorion’s mouth? Is he also a liar?

 

[PlayOn]

Dude got exposed. He will only commit to incremental improvements.

The most damning part from Ian’s article…

In fairness, 2020-2021 wasn’t hugely disappointing. It was a roster full of rookies who actually did quite well after a slow start. 2021-2022 was the first full season for many of those rookies and back to the regular schedule etc, and to me was the time to hopefully play “meaningful” games. It didn’t happen. This year we should have been prepared to make the playoffs and we didn’t, but we did play meaningful games.

I don’t know what Dorion was smoking in 2019 when he said what he said, but from where I’m standing we are about one year behind where we should ideally be at this stage.

 

[Mingus Dew]

Not sure how you read the Mendes article as anything other than a damning account of Dorion’s performance as GM. Just constant fence sitting and hedging and then disowning comments he made 4 years ago lol.

Receipts are receipts. I expect him to be GM next year unfortunately.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Did you listen? Mendes basically blew out this argument by providing facts so saying we the fans are the problem while you refuse to get your head out of the sand and see what Dorion truly is…that is a you problem.

Mendes basically brought up YOUS timeline to counter PD saying he never set playoffs as the expectation for any year during the rebuild.

It sounds nice when you line the dates up, but when you shine a bit of sunlight on it you see that the FYOUS timeline died with the pandemic, and then the entire save money to spend eventually FYOUS plan died with Melnyk.

Getting back to my original point you quoted, which had little to do with FYOUS or this most recent Mendes article, was that management and coaching told us each year that they were developing the kids, and that guys were being brought in based on character and leadership to mentor and insulate the kids. The more we progressed through the rebuild, the more open they have been with the process.

Some folks seemed to just ignore that and prepare for the season as though we were going for it year after year and failing, during the rebuild, where the goal is to get high draft picks for a bunch of years. I have argued that it’s fine not to like the plan, but to pretend it doesn’t exist is a whole other thing.

Anyways, I don’t really care about fear mongering about what you think PD ‘really is’, this same select fan behaviour will happen with the next guys, and the next guys, and the next guys, as usual.

I like the team I’m seeing and am excited to see what they’ll become. To me that’s the only personal metric that matters.

 

[Tuna99]

Tewna54, signing Giroux, Norris, and Stutzle were big home runs!

But if you hit 3 home runs and the teams around you are hitting 5 home runs, you’re not hitting enough home runs to win.