Management GM Pierre Dorion/Front Office Thread - Part IX [Mod Warning in post 1)

[Ice-Tray]

He actually said that he would set the expectations for the team after the off season moves were done, around camp, is actually what he said when answering Claire.

And then he also included that whomever was here would set expectations.

Seems reasonable to set expectations for the season after the roster is a little more set, but that would mean waiting to freak out about this for a few months, and no one wants that.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Are there any?

Too many. Some want to install him as the president of the Ottawa Senators lol

 

[Ice-Tray]

They all have Stockholm Syndrome.


You cast a wide net when you shit on people. How bout you eat some?

lol, read your own posts buddy.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Quote

What Cam did here, he brought a great work ethic, brought stability. When Leevi (Merilainen) played his game, every time he came back to the bench, he was talking about what players were doing. When we made this trade, we took a calculated risk. And now he’s going to move on. He has a lot of good hockey left in him.”

 

[aragorn]

What is better to over sell & under deliver or under sell & over deliver? PD said at the beginning of this season that he expected them to play meaningful games into March & arguably they did. If he says they should make the playoffs next yr & lose in the first rd he will still be right, but people will also still want him fired because it's not good enough for some.

Same applies to the coach, people are much harder on the managers than they are on some players who afterall determine wins & losses moreso than the coach & GM. They are much harder on bottom six players & bottom pairing D than they are on the better players who sometimes make the most mistakes. They are also usually responsible for most wins. I imagine sooner or later they will clean house, I just don't see it for next season unless new ownership demands it & comes in with their own plan. Should be interesting how it plays out.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Talbots numbers were his numbers.

I’m not gm. None of us are. It’s up to Dorion and his staff to find good players.

In the moment. A fan might think “yeah Talbot. All star game, been around a while”. But upon looking at the numbers…Talbot was not all that great last year.

So my point is the same. Dorion, at best, disregarded the analytics on Talbot last year to acquire him

I find interesting that people will claim to be experts when it suits them, but when they are wrong ‘they aren’t the GM’ and can’t be expected to experts.

Had Talbot played to his usual level, and his usual injury free amount, it would have been tremendously helpful to our team.

Ian read the article in the Athletic about Hextall and felt he needed to hit his fans with his own weird attack article…

Who knew FYOUS would still be around to haunt us this long after EM’s demise!

 

[Knave]

What is better to over sell & under deliver or under sell & over deliver? PD said at the beginning of this season that he expected them to play meaningful games into March & arguably they did. If he says they should make the playoffs next yr & lose in the first rd he will still be right, but people will also still want him fired because it's not good enough for some.

Same applies to the coach, people are much harder on the managers than they are on some players who afterall determine wins & losses moreso than the coach & GM. They are much harder on bottom six players & bottom pairing D than they are on the better players who sometimes make the most mistakes. They are also usually responsible for most wins. I imagine sooner or later they will clean house, I just don't see it for next season unless new ownership demands it & comes in with their own plan. Should be interesting how it plays out.

You're making up statements that are way too specific

How hard is it to say "the goal is to make the playoffs"? These are professional hockey people. All you have to do is listen to your coach and players and how they answer every question with "play hard on both ends", "stick on the ice", "get pucks to the net" and phrases like that. Just say something generic that makes sense. We are headed into year 8 after 6 years of missing the playoffs. He really can't state "the goal is to make the playoffs"?

Lets hope this sale process speeds up and we can get someone new in ASAP.

 

[Larionov]

Ian's article is exactly why I subscribe to The Athletic. He laid it all out and was brutally honest, but I didn't think he was unfair at all. It's a fact that this team has missed six years in a row, and it's a fact that almost no GM ever gets that much rope. It's also a fact that this club's pro scouting has been absolutely abysmal, and that his trade record contains some absolute duds that have set this club back significantly. Those are all facts.

Then there is Dorion personally. Who looks at this guy's demeanor in a news conference and says, "That guy is a leader." No one. He is always nervous, fumbling and a bit awkward, and his false bravado always rings a bit hollow. I just have zero confidence in this guy as a leader of a franchise - he always seems like he will chase whatever shiny object is in front of him next. I get that working for Eugene wasn't easy, but that doesn't excuse the awful pro scouting and terrible trades. Clean that up and we are easily a playoff team this year.

New ownership can't come soon enough, and with it I am hoping will come new leadership in the front office - this summer, not a year from now. The time has come.

 

[Ice-Tray]

You're making up statements that are way too specific

How hard is it to say "the goal is to make the playoffs"? These are professional hockey people. All you have to do is listen to your coach and players and how they answer every question with "play hard on both ends", "stick on the ice", "get pucks to the net" and phrases like that. Just say something generic that makes sense. We are headed into year 8 after 6 years of missing the playoffs. He really can't state "the goal is to make the playoffs"?

Here’s the thing. Some fans clamouring doesn't really mean shit to the team.

He has absolutely set goals for those who work for the team, and discussed goals with the players on the team, you know the places where leadership and goal setting actually matters.

Not laying out plans and goals for next season days after this season ended is not only not exceptional, it’s actually pretty pointless.

Whomever the GM is after the summer transactions and draft, will have a better understanding of what the team is capable of, and set expectations accordingly.

The only people who care about this giant nothing burger are the same people that would piss in whatever he said, and Ian who writes articles for those people, his target audience.

I can wait to talk expectations in the fall like usual, once we see what our team looks like.

 

[Big Muddy]

I find interesting that people will claim to be experts when it suits them, but when they are wrong ‘they aren’t the GM’ and can’t be expected to experts.

Had Talbot played to his usual level, and his usual injury free amount, it would have been tremendously helpful to our team.

Ian read the article in the Athletic about Hextall and felt he needed to hit his fans with his own weird attack article…

Who knew FYOUS would still be around to haunt us this long after EM’s demise!

I find it interesting that we often don't talk about hockey in here & that some would rather talk about other posters.

 

[Emerica]

Pretty much sums up what some of us have been saying…

Great article

 

[Golden_Jet]

You're making up statements that are way too specific

How hard is it to say "the goal is to make the playoffs"? These are professional hockey people. All you have to do is listen to your coach and players and how they answer every question with "play hard on both ends", "stick on the ice", "get pucks to the net" and phrases like that. Just say something generic that makes sense. We are headed into year 8 after 6 years of missing the playoffs. He really can't state "the goal is to make the playoffs"?

Let’s hope this sale process speeds up and we can get someone new in ASAP.

What did the other 16 GMs say?
Did Buffalo GM or Stevie Y say there goal for next year? What about Washington or bubble teams in the west, what did those GMS ,

I never heard one say that yet,

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I find interesting that people will claim to be experts when it suits them, but when they are wrong ‘they aren’t the GM’ and can’t be expected to experts.

Had Talbot played to his usual level, and his usual injury free amount, it would have been tremendously helpful to our team.

Ian read the article in the Athletic about Hextall and felt he needed to hit his fans with his own weird attack article…

Who knew FYOUS would still be around to haunt us this long after EM’s demise!

If he played like he did last year we are still unlikely a playoff team.

Doesn’t your first paragraph go both ways? Dorion defenders say when we disagree he’s “the pro what do you know” then when dorions wrong and someone agrees its “well you agreed didn’t you?” Well you just said I wasn’t the expert and Dorion was lmao.

Also the people who did a deeper dive on Talbot didn’t really like the trade lol. Again…he wasn’t that good last year.

And also. Dorion should definitely know gustavsson better than you or I? Agree or disagree.

 

[Knave]

What did the other 16 GMs say?
Did Buffalo GM or Stevie Y say there goal for next year? What about Washington or bubble teams in the west, what did those GMS ,

I never heard one say that yet,

You named two teams that have longer droughts than us and neither of them are on year 6 of a GM missing the playoffs.

Here's Yzerman roughly paraphrased: "I would love to make the playoffs but I can't guarantee it" and "I will not make a desperate move just to make the playoffs to say we made it" and "I think making the playoffs would be great for the experience of our team and players".

And this answer was in the context of someone asking him about Detroit setting a record playoff drought for their franchise if they miss next season. Yzerman said he didn't care if he set that record.

I'm not here to defend Steve Yzerman but at least he's not allergic to the word playoffs and he understands the disappointment in year 4 (2 years less than Dorion) of his playoff drought.

Edit: Buffalo I'm not sure. It seems their GM does his press conference in early May?

 

[Do Make Say Think]

What kind of answer is that? Is he not GM of the team?

I'm willing to cut him some slack since he is waiting for a new boss.

 

[bicboi64]

Can we all agree Dorion’s Senators:

A+ for amateur drafting and development

F- for pro player acquisitions and evaluations

I'd give him a solid A- or A for contracts. His only really horrible contract was Murray and below average was MDZ and Zack Smith.

White was a good signing at the time, buy injury luck.
Joseph can still bounce back from his meh year and is young enough unlike Murray was.

Brady, Stu, Norris, Bath, Zub, Giroux, heck even Dadanov, were all fair deals. For our forward core, even if he 'overpaid' for a year or two at the time of signing, he got 7 years minimum for 3 key guys which helps us so much in the long run. Hoffman, CBrown, Dzingel were all fair deals.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Ian's article is exactly why I subscribe to The Athletic. He laid it all out and was brutally honest, but I didn't think he was unfair at all. It's a fact that this team has missed six years in a row, and it's a fact that almost no GM ever gets that much rope. It's also a fact that this club's pro scouting has been absolutely abysmal, and that his trade record contains some absolute duds that have set this club back significantly. Those are all facts.

Then there is Dorion personally. Who looks at this guy's demeanor in a news conference and says, "That guy is a leader." No one. He is always nervous, fumbling and a bit awkward, and his false bravado always rings a bit hollow. I just have zero confidence in this guy as a leader of a franchise - he always seems like he will chase whatever shiny object is in front of him next. I get that working for Eugene wasn't easy, but that doesn't excuse the awful pro scouting and terrible trades. Clean that up and we are easily a playoff team this year.

New ownership can't come soon enough, and with it I am hoping will come new leadership in the front office - this summer, not a year from now. The time has come.

Your interpretation of facts obviously. People have moved the goalpost on what a ’fact’ actually is.

If he played like he did last year we are still unlikely a playoff team.

Doesn’t your first paragraph go both ways? Dorion defenders say when we disagree he’s “the pro what do you know” then when dorions wrong and someone agrees its “well you agreed didn’t you?” Well you just said I wasn’t the expert and Dorion was lmao.

Also the people who did a deeper dive on Talbot didn’t really like the trade lol. Again…he wasn’t that good last year.

And also. Dorion should definitely know gustavsson better than you or I? Agree or disagree.

it absolutely does go both ways! That’s why I find it interesting. We’re all guilty of it for the most part.

I tend to disagree though, I think not having Talbot healthy, or Forsberg healthy to platoon or be starter backup was a huge issue for us.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Your interpretation of facts obviously. People have moved the goalpost on what a ’fact’ actually is.

it absolutely does go both ways! That’s why I find it interesting. We’re all guilty of it for the most part.

I tend to disagree though, I think not having Talbot healthy, or Forsberg healthy to platoon or be starter backup was a huge issue for us.

Forsberg was the bigger miss for us I think. I’m not a true believer but I think he’s better than Talbot.

I also don’t like the idea of a true 1A 1B tandem. Especially when both goalies are not going. I think it messes with them psychologically knowing a bad goal means they’re out of the net next game.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

I'm willing to cut him some slack since he is waiting for a new boss.

That's all some people do with Dorion.. Cut him some slack, every year.

It's like he has a government job where there are no repercussions and no accountability.

 

[bicboi64]

What will happen to all the people who are bigger Pierre Dorion fans than Ottawa Senators fans?

Do they just leave?

I just hope fans (whether they support or critique Dorion) realize the following, some of us enjoy following the team in different ways. I personally will be critical of any GM and will always ask questions and try to do my own digging, and I'll post about it on an anonymous forum because its fun. Doesn't mean I wish ill on any gm or coach, its just how I engage and enjoy sports fandom. I don't think people defending or critiquing Dorion are idiots or whatnot, and I wish the discourse would stick to "here is why i like/don't like whatever move".

Until a gm brings home a cup, they're all open to critique

 

[Ice-Tray]

Forsberg was the bigger miss for us I think. I’m not a true believer but I think he’s better than Talbot.

I also don’t like the idea of a true 1A 1B tandem. Especially when both goalies are not going. I think it messes with them psychologically knowing a bad goal means they’re out of the net next game.

I agree about Forsberg, and also about win and you’re in for the most part.

The flip side is that Starters don’t play as many games anymore so you need two guys that can play a serious amount of games rather than one guy playing them all and the other playing spot duty.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Read Ian's newest article.

Great article

The Senators have somehow gone from trumpeting “unparalleled success” to simply wanting to play “meaningful games”. They have traded bold and grand proclamations for vague and empty objectives.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I mean it was Melnyk who threw a cringy party for business folks to declare FYOUS. That was his baby to trumpet.

Then the pandemic pushed everything back since he couldn’t bank the cash he was expecting to in order to pay for his FYOUS, and then he died.

Are people really pretending that the FYOUS guy being dead and gone isn’t the reason why the messaging changed from embarrassing blowhard bluster to reserved and manageable expectations?

This is a weird subject for a gotcha moment.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Great article

Not really. A bit of trolling the anti-org types is how I read it. Ian is jealous that PD's new bestie is DJ.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Imo Dorion's performance being so hotly debated just goes to show that it is a polarizing resume and it's not black and white. I like that we get a different perspective from Ian as opposed to the usual water bottle carriers. Love him or hate him, he had the most important article in Ottawa sports to this day and was one of the few to push back a little and that means a lot for his credibility.

Love the core he put together and believe he can finish it off without Melnyk in the way? Well, it is a nice core and nothing wrong with believing in him if you think he's capable.

Don't like the trend of a lot of his moves, past or present? Seems like a pretty respectable position as well knowing what we do and looking at all the decisions along the way. The whole idea that people are just hating is only true for a select few.

I don't feel as strongly about moving on from him as I used to, but I would still prefer it. Same goes for DJ. Just wipe the slate clean and move on from everything Melnyk.