Management GM Pierre Dorion/Front Office Thread - Part IX [Mod Warning in post 1)

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odhiambo

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Apr 12, 2009
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Seems like Rangers RHD Nils Lundkvist has requested a trade and won't report to camp. Could be a good fit for Ottawa:

To Senators: Nils Lundkvist (RHD)
To Rangers: Erik Brannstrom (LHD)

Two small defenceman who could benefit with a change in scenery?

Thoughts?
 

Alex1234

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Oct 14, 2014
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At the end of the day, PD took this team thru a total tear down and rebuild.

We had an ecf run. He made a huge trade shortly after to keep a playoff window open in the Karlsson years. It didn't work. He went the full year down route. From the point at which that decision was made, bottom of the league standings were the expectation.

Lots of players came and went. We've acquired as many draft picks as we ever dealt away. Today, it seems like we're poised to return to glory. We're definitely ahead of the curve with a young core locked up through their primes.

People wanted a rebuild. You got one. This is what it looks like.

Contrast what's happened here with other situations around the league. There's lots of teams that haven't had any success in a long time that were actually trying to succeed

There are guys in here that criticize for a few years of bottom of the league finishes. If we were trying to be successful that critique would be valid. We weren't, therefore it isn't.

Regardless of the actual motivation for the rebuild, be it players or money, what we've got at this point is almost a blueprint for how this should be done.

And the truth of the matter is....if you examine some of the loudest complaining and done what was needed to avoid those complaints, we'd have Stone and Karlsson inked at about 22 AAV and we'd be completely fu$ked.


“A lot of the hard work has been done. For us, now, it’s time to perform." -PD



Looks like Pierre was trying though
 
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Hale The Villain

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A lot happened along the way, not the least of which is a global pandemic.

Last 5 drafts we've drafted 39 players, 7 in the first round, 9 in the second round and we just used a 1st and a 2nd to acquire a young two time 40 goal scorer. I've read countless jokes about Dorion handing out draft picks like candy. That doesn't add up though does it?

We went through a full on tear down rebuild. We're coming out the other side. Even 4 months ago PD said assess where we are based on the team we're icing in September. Well, here we are, the process he went through looks pretty good to me at this point

Picking 16 times in the first 2 rounds over a 5 year span after a major rebuild isn't very impressive. That's only an average of around of a single extra 1st/2nd per year.

It's even more weak when you consider those picks were acquired during a complete tear down that involved elite players being traded like Karlsson, Stone and Duchene, as well as good players like Brassard, Pageau, Dzingel, etc... It would be shocking if we didn't have extra picks after doing a massive rebuild by trading those names.

While the returns on those players were mediocre at best and some picks were foolishly wasted on bad pro acquisitions like Stepan and Murray, the biggest reason why we didn't end up with as many picks as we should have during the rebuild was Dorion's failure to weaponize his cap space by taking advantage of desperate teams looking to dump bad short-term contracts.

Look at the work Bill Armstrong has done in his 2 year tenure as the Yotes GM as a comparison. He hasn't had nearly as much talent to deal away to acquire futures as Dorion did. Best players he had to trade were Garland, Kuemper, OEL (cap dump), Dvorak and Hill, yet under his 2 year reign the Yotes have selected 4 times in the 1st round and 5 times in the 2nd, with another 3 1sts and 8 2nds collected for the next 3 drafts. How is this possible? Well unlike Dorion he has successfully weaponized his cap space.

Most of the picks the Yotes have acquired have been from taking on bad short-term contracts that will expire long before their rebuild is complete. They have taken on Gostisbehere, Stralman, Ladd, Ritchie, Roussel, Beagle, Eriksson, Nemeth and Kassian - all of whom had contracts expiring within 2 years of acquisition - and in exchange they received a top 10 pick and 10 2nd round picks. That's how you take advantage of other teams with cap issues when you have lots of cap space.

Meanwhile Dorion only did that once via the Coburn/Paquette trade. Only a single time did he weaponize his cap space for futures. Rest of the time he was instead wasting tens of millions of dollars on the likes of Murray, Dadonov, Gudbranson, Stepan, Hainsey, Namestnikov, Boedker, Sanford and others - players just as bad overall (if not worse) as the cap dumps AZ acquired but instead of getting assets for taking them on, Dorion actually paid assets to acquire them. It was a terrible waste of both valuable cap space and assets.

While I'm very happy with his work this off-season, there's absolutely no denying that Dorion failed in his ability to weaponize his cap space during the rebuild and the team has far less futures to work with than we should. Should be absolutely loaded with prospects and picks after the massive tear down rebuild, but after some graduations the pool looks pretty weak beyond the top 3 guys.
 

Ice-Tray

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You can only “weaponize” cap space, if you’re allowed to use cap space. Our goal was to try and spend as little as possible while hitting the cap floor, saving that money over the course of the rebuild, then spend when the time is right. Eugene was running a tight budget where every dollar mattered. I’m not sure we could have been as active as other teams.

Our goal was also to develop our young core and come out of the rebuild, not stay there forever amassing picks and trading away anyone that is good when they get good.

The proof is in the pudding, but we’ll let the season get underway before putting a bow on a rebuild that looks to have gone fabulously from drafting to character, to chemistry, to eventually trades and signings.

If things pop off this season I hope people understand that this wasn’t an accident, and unforeseen circumstance, or completely unrelated to the years we spent building up this core.

Arizona is not a team anyone is looking at in envy.
 

Que

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Personally, I think it’s bad to dwell too much on reduced returns than the courage and wisdom to know when you have to change - and drastically at that.
 

Sensinitis

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Our core looks very promising (though you never know what happens) but not having any contracts over 8.5M is going to be HUGE moving forward..

The cap will inevitably go up, and while teams like the Leafs are struggling to make things work with their 9.5-11M players, we’ll really have an opportunity to leapfrog some of the top teams
 

Samsquanch

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Our core looks very promising (though you never know what happens) but not having any contracts over 8.5M is going to be HUGE moving forward..

The cap will inevitably go up, and while teams like the Leafs are struggling to make things work with their 9.5-11M players, we’ll really have an opportunity to leapfrog some of the top teams

Its bonkers good for us. Especially if the cap goes up as much as they say it will over these next several years. We can afford to keep everyone that matters for the whole window - and add even more yet still. Heck even after 3 years when Giroux is done, and Zaitsev is long gone along with Hamonic, Holden and Watson. We will have a real point to retool in the middle of this stretch for the core.

People laugh at the teams obsession with finding high character guys - but this total team buy in from the whole young core is a massive part of why this group feels so special.

Its a room and the team culture has been built entirely from the ground up by the young leaders in the room - and the clear direction from management in Dorion, Mann and DJ Smith on how want the team to play and look.
 

Wallet Inspector

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Jan 19, 2013
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Our core looks very promising (though you never know what happens) but not having any contracts over 8.5M is going to be HUGE moving forward..

The cap will inevitably go up, and while teams like the Leafs are struggling to make things work with their 9.5-11M players, we’ll really have an opportunity to leapfrog some of the top teams
If we can re-sign Debrincat I think he'll ask for 9 million but yeah, I like the our contract situation going forward.
 

Bevans

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Apr 15, 2016
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Picking 16 times in the first 2 rounds over a 5 year span after a major rebuild isn't very impressive. That's only an average of around of a single extra 1st/2nd per year.

It's even more weak when you consider those picks were acquired during a complete tear down that involved elite players being traded like Karlsson, Stone and Duchene, as well as good players like Brassard, Pageau, Dzingel, etc... It would be shocking if we didn't have extra picks after doing a massive rebuild by trading those names.

While the returns on those players were mediocre at best and some picks were foolishly wasted on bad pro acquisitions like Stepan and Murray, the biggest reason why we didn't end up with as many picks as we should have during the rebuild was Dorion's failure to weaponize his cap space by taking advantage of desperate teams looking to dump bad short-term contracts.

Look at the work Bill Armstrong has done in his 2 year tenure as the Yotes GM as a comparison. He hasn't had nearly as much talent to deal away to acquire futures as Dorion did. Best players he had to trade were Garland, Kuemper, OEL (cap dump), Dvorak and Hill, yet under his 2 year reign the Yotes have selected 4 times in the 1st round and 5 times in the 2nd, with another 3 1sts and 8 2nds collected for the next 3 drafts. How is this possible? Well unlike Dorion he has successfully weaponized his cap space.

Most of the picks the Yotes have acquired have been from taking on bad short-term contracts that will expire long before their rebuild is complete. They have taken on Gostisbehere, Stralman, Ladd, Ritchie, Roussel, Beagle, Eriksson, Nemeth and Kassian - all of whom had contracts expiring within 2 years of acquisition - and in exchange they received a top 10 pick and 10 2nd round picks. That's how you take advantage of other teams with cap issues when you have lots of cap space.

Meanwhile Dorion only did that once via the Coburn/Paquette trade. Only a single time did he weaponize his cap space for futures. Rest of the time he was instead wasting tens of millions of dollars on the likes of Murray, Dadonov, Gudbranson, Stepan, Hainsey, Namestnikov, Boedker, Sanford and others - players just as bad overall (if not worse) as the cap dumps AZ acquired but instead of getting assets for taking them on, Dorion actually paid assets to acquire them. It was a terrible waste of both valuable cap space and assets.

While I'm very happy with his work this off-season, there's absolutely no denying that Dorion failed in his ability to weaponize his cap space during the rebuild and the team has far less futures to work with than we should. Should be absolutely loaded with prospects and picks after the massive tear down rebuild, but after some graduations the pool looks pretty weak beyond the top 3 guys.
Dorion absolutely weaponized cap space but in a unique way that no one else has.

Ottawa more than almost any other team and decoupled realspending from cap spending.

When they were trying to lose they drove real spending into the ground, barely above 50 million. Over 10 million below their cap hit.

Now. They have a half a dozen players heading for 10 million in real pay; this will put them above the cap in real dollars.

Dorion, on a tight budget, effectively robbed Peter to pay Paul. He lost as cheaply as possible and now that money is being used to win.

With the gift of hind sight, I am content with how he's managed the cap in down years. Though it's not entirely hindsight because I speculated that this may be the plan at the time.
 
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Samsquanch

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The guy took an unreal amount of punches from the hockey world and his own city and fans. Traded everyone and spent nothing. But did what he had to do for him to still be standing here today at the head of the team - a f***ing great one that came alive the second he was given the freedom and ability to spend big dollars.
 

JD1

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Sep 12, 2005
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Picking 16 times in the first 2 rounds over a 5 year span after a major rebuild isn't very impressive. That's only an average of around of a single extra 1st/2nd per year.
So how about picking 16 times in the first two rounds and having acquired a 24 year old two time 40 goal guy? More impressive yes? When you leave things out to make your point, glaring things like having acquired DeBrincat, it cheapens your argument. What's your thought process? If I don't mention the elite star player we acquired I can make things look worse and no one's gonna notice?

Sometimes you post some great stuff. Sometimes you post stuff and you're clearly twisting the truth. Unfortunately the latter throws shade on the former. This is one of those times.
 

topshelf15

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May 5, 2009
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The time to play for picks is done,now we have to play to win at all cost,s...DJ better have this team breathing fire from the first game or else!!
 
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Tuna99

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Seems like Rangers RHD Nils Lundkvist has requested a trade and won't report to camp. Could be a good fit for Ottawa:

To Senators: Nils Lundkvist (RHD)
To Rangers: Erik Brannstrom (LHD)

Two small defenceman who could benefit with a change in scenery?

Thoughts?

I like it although I think Ottawa would have to sweeten the pot with a late round pick or a lower tier prospect (Reinhardt, Gambrell)

But Ottawa already has enough youth with Sanderson, Brannstrom and JBD/Thomson getting games this year. Don’t know if you want to bring in a player with less experience then Bransstrom who isn’t a fit with the coaches or players like Branny is - probs just stay the course and ask Brann to play some bottom pairing RD

Chabot - Zub
Sanderson - Hamonic
Holden - Brannstrom
 

Bevans

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Apr 15, 2016
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I like it although I think Ottawa would have to sweeten the pot with a late round pick or a lower tier prospect (Reinhardt, Gambrell)

But Ottawa already has enough youth with Sanderson, Brannstrom and JBD/Thomson getting games this year. Don’t know if you want to bring in a player with less experience then Bransstrom who isn’t a fit with the coaches or players like Branny is - probs just stay the course and ask Brann to play some bottom pairing RD

Chabot - Zub
Sanderson - Hamonic
Holden - Brannstrom
By what logic would ottawa need to add? Brannstrom Is signed to a good contract, isn't sitting out, has far more success on NA, and has higher pedigree.

Brannstrom has less skeletons and a higher floor.
 

PlayersLtd

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It's refreshing to see the general vibe on Dorion coming around. Most of the critics from yesterday are either willing to give some benefit of the doubt or at least let the past be the past.

Unity and looking ahead is what we need now not another debate on the Stepan and Gudbranson deals.

There isn't a team in the league I trade this roster with. We have been paying rent in a torture chamber for 5 years and that has produced a unique bond with the sens for all of us. I can't wait to see that transpire into unadulterated euphoria as this team racks up the wins en route to a cup, a run which takes on the character of an emotional redemption story considering everything we have been through.
 

Laphroaig

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Seems like Rangers RHD Nils Lundkvist has requested a trade and won't report to camp. Could be a good fit for Ottawa:

To Senators: Nils Lundkvist (RHD)
To Rangers: Erik Brannstrom (LHD)

Two small defenceman who could benefit with a change in scenery?

Thoughts?
I like it and believe it would be a fair trade but the Rangers apparently want a centre in return.
 

Cosmix

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It's refreshing to see the general vibe on Dorion coming around. Most of the critics from yesterday are either willing to give some benefit of the doubt or at least let the past be the past.

Unity and looking ahead is what we need now not another debate on the Stepan and Gudbranson deals.

There isn't a team in the league I trade this roster with. We have been paying rent in a torture chamber for 5 years and that has produced a unique bond with the sens for all of us. I can't wait to see that transpire into unadulterated euphoria as this team racks up the wins en route to a cup, a run which takes on the character of an emotional redemption story considering everything we have been through.
Colorado!
 
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PlayersLtd

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Colorado!
Ha, my first run at that post had "Not even Colorado" in it! But nope, not for me. Obviously there is a healthy dose of bias there but I really believe in how complete and well balanced this team will turn out to be.

It's a subjective measurement but I would rather have a roster that is ready to begin a promising upswing and cheer for that the whole way through, then one that is already there and about to face some tough cap decisions. So I take the sens and the ride we have to look forward to over the next 6 years than dropping myself into Colorado's situation/status.

Thats highly subjective though and more based on the fact that for me it would probably feel less dirty to open up an Ashley Madison account than it would be to cheer on a set of NHL players that aren't the sens.
 
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Cosmix

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Ha, my first run at that post had "Not even Colorado" in it! But nope, not for me. Obviously there is a healthy dose of bias there but I really believe in how complete and well balanced this team will turn out to be.

It's a subjective measurement but I would rather have a roster that is ready to begin a promising upswing and cheer for that the whole way through, then one that is already there and about to face some tough cap decisions. So I take the sens and the ride we have to look forward to over the next 6 years than dropping myself into Colorado's situation/status.

Thats highly subjective though and more based on the fact that for me it would probably feel less dirty to open up an Ashley Madison account than it would be to cheer on a set of NHL players that aren't the sens.
I think Colrado is more likely to win another SC or two before the Senators win a SC.

I am looking forward to this coming season and hope we make the playoffs but expect to be a bubble team and not make the playoffs. I hope Formenton is signed soon to complete the 3rd line.
 
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Masked

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They got the donuts? Excellent....
Dorion has built the best Center depth and Wing depth this team has ever had.

Hard to compete with the D of Chara, Redden, Phillips, Volchenkov but PD is 1 trade away from having his D in the conversation with the best Sens D of all time.

Volchenkov didn't break out as a top 4 D until Chara left and he switched to the right side beside Phillips.

Assen na yo.
 

Alex1234

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I think Colrado is more likely to win another SC or two before the Senators win a SC.

I am looking forward to this coming season and hope we make the playoffs but expect to be a bubble team and not make the playoffs. I hope Formenton is signed soon to complete the 3rd line.
Colorado too here
I mean they won the last Cup
We can't even make the PO
Don't get me wrong I love this group
But If Chychrun doesn't end up here, Debrincat goes south and don't forget Giroux retires in 3 years..
Its possible we don't get a sniff at the Cup we this group too
I hope we do though
 
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Ice-Tray

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A cup win doesn’t matter to me unless my team does it. I wouldn’t change this group for any group because a win wouldn’t mean anything to me under those circumstances.

This journey so far is exactly what makes a sports championship so sweet, otherwise it’s just meaningless to me, no story, no drama, no dues paid.

I want to see some magic, like the Hammond run, a started from the bottom now we’re here. To hear pundits begrudgingly talk about how awesome our squad has become.

As with most things it’s all about the journey for me.

I’ll say this though, despite differing opinions, this board doesn’t have bandwagoners, we’re all on this journey together no matter how we perceive the path.
 
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