Management GM Pierre Dorion/Front Office Thread - Part IX [Mod Warning in post 1)

[YouGotAStuGoing]

The problem is that some people still perceive some good moves as bad moves.

Everyone was fixated on asset management when the priority was risk management with these hole plug / veteran acquisitions (Gudbranson, Stepan, Hainsey, Ennis, etc).

The priorities in order of importance when acquiring these vets were:

1. Low term (1yr left on contract, maaaybe 2 tops).
2. Good pro in the locker room
3. Not so good that they take development time away from the kids
4. Assets used to acquire said player
5. Lower AAV
6. Good enough to be a depth player

The result of this approach directly led to us having the great summer we just had. We had almost no issues fitting all these new shiny contracts under the cap. We have literally only one "bad" contract (Zaitsev) left on the team.

These moves directly led to the summer of Pierre

A lot of this would've been accepted much more readily had the communication from the club been consistent with the approach. It wasn't. Hard to blame people for perceiving a move through the lens the team told 'em to use at the time of acquisition.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Posters will criticize Dorion for bad moves and praise him for good moves.

Shocking.

It's only shocking to those who only have one setting - fanatical positivity or relentless negativity.

If someone tries to argue that Dorion just had a terrible off-season or that the previous couple off-seasons were great, they are biased partisans and aren't worth listening to.

 

[Hale The Villain]

The problem is that some people still perceive some good moves as bad moves.

Everyone was fixated on asset management when the priority was risk management with these hole plug / veteran acquisitions (Gudbranson, Stepan, Hainsey, Ennis, etc).

The priorities in order of importance when acquiring these vets were:

1. Low term (1yr left on contract, maaaybe 2 tops).
2. Good pro in the locker room
3. Not so good that they take development time away from the kids
4. Assets used to acquire said player
5. Lower AAV
6. Good enough to be a depth player

The result of this approach directly led to us having the great summer we just had. We had almost no issues fitting all these new shiny contracts under the cap. We have literally only one "bad" contract (Zaitsev) left on the team.

These moves directly led to the summer of Pierre

You seem to be forgetting that we just had to buyout White and MDZ to get them off the roster, plus retain 1.5M and package a pick with Murray to dump his cap.

And no Stepan and Gudbranson were not good pickups. How anyone could argue that is beyond me.

 

[UglyPuckling]

The problem is that some people still perceive some good moves as bad moves.

Everyone was fixated on asset management when the priority was risk management with these hole plug / veteran acquisitions (Gudbranson, Stepan, Hainsey, Ennis, etc).

The priorities in order of importance when acquiring these vets were:

1. Low term (1yr left on contract, maaaybe 2 tops).
2. Good pro in the locker room
3. Not so good that they take development time away from the kids
4. Assets used to acquire said player
5. Lower AAV
6. Good enough to be a depth player

The result of this approach directly led to us having the great summer we just had. We had almost no issues fitting all these new shiny contracts under the cap. We have literally only one "bad" contract (Zaitsev) left on the team.

These moves directly led to the summer of Pierre

Well, in the case of Stepan, the AAV was considerably higher ($6.5 m) than the actual dollars being paid ($2 m). That was probably a big motivating factor for that acquisition because DS wasn't a great player at the time we acquired him, and there would have been other (vet) alternatives.

When you are rebuilding, then many acquisitions will have short term contracts. That's not particularly unique to Ottawa as that what rebuilding teams tend to do. We did overpay in terms of the assets we used to acquire some of these players though.

You seem to be forgetting that we just had to buyout White and MDZ to get them off the roster, plus retain 1.5M and package a pick with Murray to dump his cap.

And no Stepan and Gudbranson were not good pickups. How anyone could argue that is beyond me.

Yep. We can give Pierre credit for the good things he's done (i.e., this summer) without having to whitewash over the bad moves. Like most things, there was some good things, and there was bad things. I'm not sure we need to rewrite history.

 

[OD99]

The problem is that some people still perceive some good moves as bad moves.

Everyone was fixated on asset management when the priority was risk management with these hole plug / veteran acquisitions (Gudbranson, Stepan, Hainsey, Ennis, etc).

The priorities in order of importance when acquiring these vets were:

1. Low term (1yr left on contract, maaaybe 2 tops).

This would be an obvious decision to anyone but also make sense because they weren't particularly good players so they wouldn't have long contracts

2. Good pro in the locker room

Every pro gets deemed, "a good pro" when they aren't that good

3. Not so good that they take development time away from the kids

Many of them did though?

4. Assets used to acquire said player

Again, because they weren't good

5. Lower AAV

Also because they weren't good

6. Good enough to be a depth player

Also because they weren't good (enough to be anything higher on other teams)

The result of this approach directly led to us having the great summer we just had. We had almost no issues fitting all these new shiny contracts under the cap. We have literally only one "bad" contract (Zaitsev) left on the team.

These moves directly led to the summer of Pierre

Disagree. We could have gotten here with better players. Pierre has had an incredible run and the entire organization is on a completely different, exciting path but that doesn't magically turn everything that has happened over the last few seasons all part of the, "grand plan".

 

[Wallet Inspector]

Dorion's done a great job this summer but I'm not entirely convinced that Eugene's meddling played THAT big a role in his earlier moves.

I mean a lot of his bad moves like the Stepan trade ADDED salary to the roster, so it can't be explained away via Melnyk's cheapness.

 

[swiftwin]

It's only shocking to those who only have one setting - fanatical positivity or relentless negativity.

If someone tries to argue that Dorion just had a terrible off-season or that the previous couple off-seasons were great, they are biased partisans and aren't worth listening to.

I just find it bizarre that some believe Dorion actually went from a terrible GM, where almost every more he made was bad to a great GM where every move was great in just one summer, and the fact that this is the season we're clearly trying to "compete" is just a coincidence.

It's painfully obvious that many of the moves made over the previous seasons were made with the goal of keeping the roster as flexible as possible. I think many underestimate how difficult that can be. I can't imagine any NHL caliber UFA would ever want to sign a 1yr deal with a rebuilding team. That's a career death sentence. The only way to acquire these 1yr vets is through trade (Gudbranson, Stepan, Holden, etc.), by massively overpaying them on their last contract before they retire (Hainsey), or find a player to just seems to play better on our team/system/coach than other teams (Ennis).

Giving anyone else who isn't in the youth movement more than a year or maaaybe 2 years introduces unnecessary risk.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Dorion's done a great job this summer but I'm not entirely convinced that Eugene's meddling played THAT big a role in his earlier moves.

I mean a lot of his bad moves like the Stepan trade ADDED salary to the roster, so it can't be explained away via Melnyk's cheapness.

No that's just a cop out for a vast history of moves that made little sense and wasted assets and salary.

Dorion was a far below average manager during his tenure up until this off-season where he did great.

He was clearly thrust into the role way before he was ready on account of Murray's premature passing, but hopefully as he gets more experience he'll get better and build on this summer.

 

[Bevans]

Dorion has built the best Center depth and Wing depth this team has ever had.

Hard to compete with the D of Chara, Redden, Phillips, Volchenkov but PD is 1 trade away from having his D in the conversation with the best Sens D of all time.

Unless that trade is for makar and toews I disagree.

 

[swiftwin]

Dorion's done a great job this summer but I'm not entirely convinced that Eugene's meddling played THAT big a role in his earlier moves.

I mean a lot of his bad moves like the Stepan trade ADDED salary to the roster, so it can't be explained away via Melnyk's cheapness.

I agree that Melnyk's meddling didn't play a major role.

The difference is that Dorion's objectives are different this season. In the past the goal was to harbor an environment conducive to the development of young players, while keeping the salary structure of the roster flexible for the day we decide to take a big step forward. This season was that big step forward, and thanks to the prudence from previous seasons, we were able to shoot up nearly to the cap with almost no effort (two small buyouts for MDZ/White and a couple late picks for Murray).

 

[Ice-Tray]

I mean, they were pretty clear in explaining why they were bringing in the guys they were bringing in.

We were in a rebuild where getting top picks is critical. No GM is going to talk about actively tanking, but they will talk about focusing on being patient and developing the kids, while surrounding them with character guys. PD even went so far as admitting that they prioritized character over skill.

We also wanted to stay at the floor if possible, so cheap was ideal, though we needed to pay guys in order to stay compliant. We have seen the fruits of those savings this summer for sure in terms of hiring front office staff, and player additions.

Anyways, there are those who acknowledge the rebuild plan as it was explained to us in an ongoing manner, and there are those who carry their own interpretations on what went down and why.

From what I have witnessed over the last few years, there is no reconciling the differences in opinion on that subject in here.

The good news is that most people in here are back on board regardless and we all seemed primed to enjoy the next phase a little more unified as a fanbase.

 

[Big Muddy]

Murray, Dadonov, Gudbranson & even MDZ were not low cost AAV contracts.

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

Dadonov was a good signing at the time that just didn't work out and he kind of fell off at the wrong time.

Gudbranson was also a decent player to get, we just sucked ass so he looked even worse. But he played well on a Stanley Cup contender right after so He's a top 6 dman on a playoff team. Again, right player, just didn't work out.

 

[thammias]

Murray, Dadonov, Gudbranson & even MDZ were not low cost AAV contracts.

On the flip side I will give Dorion credit for realizing when an acquisition isn't working and for not doubling down on it and keeping them around. Dadonov, 1 year not working, gone. Gudbranson 1 year not working, gone, MDZ, one year, not working, gone. Matt Murray 47 games played, not working out, gone. Zaitsev........................ ....can someone please take Zaitsev.

 

[Que]

Man I can’t wait for the Chychrun trade.

Pierre is obviously waiting for a moment.

Like he is when he skates to center ice to drop the puck for the home opener with a patented GMPD contract extension for Zub.

 

[Big Muddy]

Dadonov was a good signing at the time that just didn't work out and he kind of fell off at the wrong time.

Gudbranson was also a decent player to get, we just sucked ass so he looked even worse. But he played well on a Stanley Cup contender right after so He's a top 6 dman on a playoff team. Again, right player, just didn't work out.

I guess the "right player" definition could vary to some degree. For Gudbranson, we had a higher expectation and role in mind & we hoped he could play higher up in our lineup. Calgary had the depth to slot him lower. Neither player played well enough to remain on the team. Also, see below. ***

On the flip side I will give Dorion credit for realizing when an acquisition isn't working and for not doubling down on it and keeping them around. Dadonov, 1 year not working, gone. Gudbranson 1 year not working, gone, MDZ, one year, not working, gone. Matt Murray 47 games played, not working out, gone. Zaitsev........................ ....can someone please take Zaitsev.

*** True but also tangental to the main subject being discussed which was that Ottawa signed just low AAV contracts during the rebuild.

 

[JD1]

At the end of the day, PD took this team thru a total tear down and rebuild.

We had an ecf run. He made a huge trade shortly after to keep a playoff window open in the Karlsson years. It didn't work. He went the full year down route. From the point at which that decision was made, bottom of the league standings were the expectation.

Lots of players came and went. We've acquired as many draft picks as we ever dealt away. Today, it seems like we're poised to return to glory. We're definitely ahead of the curve with a young core locked up through their primes.

People wanted a rebuild. You got one. This is what it looks like.

Contrast what's happened here with other situations around the league. There's lots of teams that haven't had any success in a long time that were actually trying to succeed

There are guys in here that criticize for a few years of bottom of the league finishes. If we were trying to be successful that critique would be valid. We weren't, therefore it isn't.

Regardless of the actual motivation for the rebuild, be it players or money, what we've got at this point is almost a blueprint for how this should be done.

And the truth of the matter is....if you examine some of the loudest complaining and done what was needed to avoid those complaints, we'd have Stone and Karlsson inked at about 22 AAV and we'd be completely fu$ked.

 

[Big Muddy]

At the end of the day, PD took this team thru a total tear down and rebuild.

Yep. It was a rebuild. I think many/lots of people recognized that.

So, when a team rebuilds, they acquire a lot of short term contracts, vets for leadership/mentoring and stop gaps while they draft and develop their new core. Standard procedure during a rebuild and not something new or unique to what Ottawa has done.

There can be more nuance in terms of the good and bad during the rebuild timeframe though. But overall, the basic pattern of what would unfold and happen is set because it's a rebuild.

We are into the next phase now ....... thankfully.

 

[Bevans]

Dorion was a few months late to recognize he had to rebuild (duchene trade) and a little early to call end of rebuild (2021 season). But being a few months late and early is not the end of the world. Some GMs spend years going the wrong way.

 

[Micklebot]

Dorion was a few months late to recognize he had to rebuild (duchene trade) and a little early to call end of rebuild (2021 season). But being a few months late and early is not the end of the world. Some GMs spend years going the wrong way.

I think there were some messaging issues along the way that failed to appropriately set expectations, not all of which was on Dorion.

It's a delicate balance of giving fans some hope for this year so that they buy tickets, and not setting false expectations so that they lose trust.

 

[JD1]

I think there were some messaging issues along the way that failed to appropriately set expectations, not all of which was on Dorion.

It's a delicate balance of giving fans some hope for this year so that they buy tickets, and not setting false expectations so that they lose trust.

A lot happened along the way, not the least of which is a global pandemic.

Last 5 drafts we've drafted 39 players, 7 in the first round, 9 in the second round and we just used a 1st and a 2nd to acquire a young two time 40 goal scorer. I've read countless jokes about Dorion handing out draft picks like candy. That doesn't add up though does it?

We went through a full on tear down rebuild. We're coming out the other side. Even 4 months ago PD said assess where we are based on the team we're icing in September. Well, here we are, the process he went through looks pretty good to me at this point

 

[HSF]

At the end of the day, PD took this team thru a total tear down and rebuild.

We had an ecf run. He made a huge trade shortly after to keep a playoff window open in the Karlsson years. It didn't work. He went the full year down route. From the point at which that decision was made, bottom of the league standings were the expectation.

Lots of players came and went. We've acquired as many draft picks as we ever dealt away. Today, it seems like we're poised to return to glory. We're definitely ahead of the curve with a young core locked up through their primes.

People wanted a rebuild. You got one. This is what it looks like.

Contrast what's happened here with other situations around the league. There's lots of teams that haven't had any success in a long time that were actually trying to succeed

There are guys in here that criticize for a few years of bottom of the league finishes. If we were trying to be successful that critique would be valid. We weren't, therefore it isn't.

Regardless of the actual motivation for the rebuild, be it players or money, what we've got at this point is almost a blueprint for how this should be done.

And the truth of the matter is....if you examine some of the loudest complaining and done what was needed to avoid those complaints, we'd have Stone and Karlsson inked at about 22 AAV and we'd be completely fu$ked.

blueprint? Lets win some games first

We are in a much better place with this offseason making up for past failed ones. Lets see how the team looks on the ice

it is promising

 

[Micklebot]

A lot happened along the way, not the least of which is a global pandemic.

Last 5 drafts we've drafted 39 players, 7 in the first round, 9 in the second round and we just used a 1st and a 2nd to acquire a young two time 40 goal scorer. I've read countless jokes about Dorion handing out draft picks like candy. That doesn't add up though does it?

We went through a full on tear down rebuild. We're coming out the other side. Even 4 months ago PD said assess where we are based on the team we're icing in September. Well, here we are, the process he went through looks pretty good to me at this point

Yeah, I think the messaging got better as we progressed through the rebuild. Like I said, it's a balance, and when your trying to sell tickets in a small market, you can't always be 100% straight forward. For example, to start last season, Dorion said the rebuild is over, the time to start winning is now, and then signed MDZ as the guy to address our Blueline. Maybe nobody else was willing to come here, but that type of thing is what sets expectations.

This year felt very different, he made moves that align with the expectations he's set, exceeded them even. Whether the change is him feeling as though our time is now, or something else, who knows, but personally I find it feels different this time around.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Throwing away a half a decade to try to build a good team again is not for the faint of heart. I've appreciated how much Leblanc and Dorion have talked about it like it was rocky, mistakes were made, and the fans deserve better. They knew what needed to be done. If anyone truly thought that what transpired this summer was ever a realistic possibility, a lot more people would have been a lot quieter with their criticism, but you basically had a rookie GM that had built no faith with the fanbase and an owner everyone disliked as the guys sending out mixed messages. Some not so optimal hires along the way like Nick R. and the battling with local media, and the comms really went off the rails for a bit. I can't say enough about what this franchise has done since Melnyk passed away. A complete 180 and they have done almost exactly what everyone was clamouring for.

 

[armani]

Superstar GM!