Management GM Pierre Dorion/Front Office Thread - Part IX [Mod Warning in post 1)

[Bileur]

If the Sens need toughness Kastelic is the guy. Strong as an ox, huge and willing.

Kelly is a pest, he shouldn’t be enforcing with anyone. If he wants to fight guys Marchand or Gallagher’s size, sure, anyone else he should laugh in their face and try to draw a call.

He got tuned up pretty good by Pezzetta, who is no Ryan Reaves, last year and IIRC was concussed. Don’t need a Tom Kostopoulos.

 

[Sweatred]

If the Sens need toughness Kastelic is the guy. Strong as an ox, huge and willing.

Kelly is a pest, he shouldn’t be enforcing with anyone. If he wants to fight guys Marchand or Gallagher’s size, sure, anyone else he should laugh in their face and try to draw a call.

He got tuned up pretty good by Pezzetta, who is no Ryan Reaves, last year and IIRC was concussed. Don’t need a Tom Kostopoulos.

Kastelic is probably starting in Belleville… not sure he can handle the type of guys that Watson or Brady can handle.

 

[Micklebot]

Kastelic is probably starting in Belleville… not sure he can handle the type of guys that Watson or Brady can handle.

Agree that he likely starts in Belleville unless he really impressed at camp, though I think he'll earn himself a callup and replace Gambrell soon enough. But I'm not sure he needs to be able to handle the guys Watson or Brady can if he's the 4th fighter option on the team after Brady, Watson and Hamonic. How often are there more than 1 fight in a game these days, little lone 4...

 

[Ice-Tray]

Kleven will add that grit on the back end, the team is waiting for him to grab a bottom pairing spot.

We are plenty tough as a team, and have guys that can fight anyone.

Most teams don’t have a pure fighter, as it’s a waste of a roster spot. Those guys barely fight anyways because no one wants to fight them.

The competitive level will be high this year, and tensions will be higher, stakes will be higher, and guys will have a shorter fuse.

We just add two very fiesty competitive wingers who will piss people off, and Stu looks to have bulked up big time.

We should be fine. I would like to see Boucher and Ostapchuk on the team soon along with Kleven to finish off the team toughness aspect.

Those guys are coming, but we’ll be tough enough until then I figure.

 

[Bileur]

Kastelic is probably starting in Belleville… not sure he can handle the type of guys that Watson or Brady can handle.

Watson can’t really handle anyone either. He’s very game but he doesn’t win much. Kastelic is much stronger than him, less experience but Watson didn’t have much experience at first either.

My point is just that we don’t need to be asking Kelly to fight. If we really need someone to step into that role, Kastelic is a decent in house option.

I agree he’ll likely start in Belleville but I hope he knocks the doors off and doesn’t give the Sens a choice.

 

[boxbox]

Well something didn't jive. If this was indeed their plan all along that mean's they were full of it when they proclaimed they tried extend Karlsson, Stone, etc...

Regardless, better times ahead.

I don't for a second believe they didn't try. Term and amount that is up for discussion. I am also one of those people who think that both Stone and Karlsson are overpaid ATM.

 

[boxbox]

I'm not sure how time will tell whether this was the plan or whether Dorion was handcuffed. I think the best we'll ever have on that front is an educated guess, and all signs point to the latter by my eye. But it'll never be more than a guess unless outright confirmed by Dorion, which just doesn't seem likely.

don't disagree with anything you said....some signs are there ...for starters I haven't seen any of those "Hometown Discounts" coupons being cashed inn as of late... signing players to fair max length deals is also something we're not used to...finally signing a noticeable free agent who is not 45 years old and held up by duct tape and holding a "Hometown Discount" coupon...

 

[KingAlfie11]

But looking back it was the right decision to trade Karlsson at that time, I thing management knew that with all the injuries he suffered that he was on the decline, now there's no doubt the Sens were very lucky that the Sharks went down like they did, to get Norris and Stutzle out of it was more then anyone could hope for. Now as for Mark Stone that's a bad trade but at the time Brannstrom was a very blue chip prospect. I think the plan was always a 5 year rebuilt and then we start to spend money and be competitive. I can't wait for next season to start, it feels so good to be open for business again.

 

[Cosmix]

The only nagging feeling I have at the back of my head is the fact that we had to ship out two of our veteran "character" guys in N. Paul and C. Brown who really helped to set the tone for the squad in terms of work ethic.

They are both guys who would be solid supporting players for the post-season (as we saw in Tampa Bay), but the window doesn't quite align and I get why we made the moves that we did. Conceivably, Giroux can help fill that void as well.

Not to mention, chemistry can be an elusive thing and we have to find it quickly with two new big forwards taking up big roles.

My other reservation is that we relied on very strong goaltending from Anton Forsberg last year to mask our defensive shortcomings which may or may not continue.

On the other hand, I will say that I'm very excited to see Chris Tierney suiting up for the Florida Panthers.

There are legitimate reasons why we might struggle early in terms of reaching peak play, but DJ Smith has blown two starts already so he won't survive a third IMO.

In general I agree but the two new BIG forwards are not BIG at all; they are goal scorers and VG hockey players.

 

[DJB]

I’m glad people are finally understanding that Pierre took way too much heat from this fan base and in particular a few posters around here.

For years I preached that Melnyk had his dirty hands involved in everything and micro managed.

Dorion has redeemed his reputation with the removal of the Melnyk shackles and the moves that he has made so far.

The haters have to give him some credit now. You know who you are

 

[Ice-Tray]

Watson can’t really handle anyone either. He’s very game but he doesn’t win much. Kastelic is much stronger than him, less experience but Watson didn’t have much experience at first either.

My point is just that we don’t need to be asking Kelly to fight. If we really need someone to step into that role, Kastelic is a decent in house option.

I agree he’ll likely start in Belleville but I hope he knocks the doors off and doesn’t give the Sens a choice.

Yeah Kelly is a hitter, not a fighter, though he’ll go. He typically ends up fighting some bigger dude after he lays someone out. Not enviable, but Kelly is a gamer, love the way he plays.

I agree about Kastelic, he is a big strong kid who can throw them and is game from the looks of it. Watson never fought much until the NHL, and is not in any way an enforcer or fighter. He has taken it upon himself to stand up for, and defend the kids, but he isn’t great at it, and admits as much.

Brady likes fighting and is good and game, but we obviously don’t want him fighting much. Typically we’ll see him defend himself and his linemates when he’s on the ice.

Personally I’m wanting more hitters who can defend themselves over ‘fighters’. We can answer ramped up physicality by having everyone finishing their checks to punish the other team. That’s kind of how it’s done now.

Kelly, Watson and Brady hit hard, and we have at least three more on the way who truly love the physicality aspect. I do understand the desire to have a few more guys right now, but it’s hard to find these types of players who can play the game.

 

[boxbox]

But looking back it was the right decision to trade Karlsson at that time, I thing management knew that with all the injuries he suffered that he was on the decline, now there's no doubt the Sens were very lucky that the Sharks went down like they did, to get Norris and Stutzle out of it was more then anyone could hope for. Now as for Mark Stone that's a bad trade but at the time Brannstrom was a very blue chip prospect. I think the plan was always a 5 year rebuilt and then we start to spend money and be competitive. I can't wait for next season to start, it feels so good to be open for business again.

I am not saying the following will happen, its solely made up nonsense but let say 3-4 years from now this team is a top team in the league and we finally end up winning that germ contaminated silver trophy ...well if that actually ends up happening you can betcha that Karlsson trade will be looked as one of the key moves which got the ball rolling to make it all happen

 

[thammias]

But looking back it was the right decision to trade Karlsson at that time, I thing management knew that with all the injuries he suffered that he was on the decline, now there's no doubt the Sens were very lucky that the Sharks went down like they did, to get Norris and Stutzle out of it was more then anyone could hope for. Now as for Mark Stone that's a bad trade but at the time Brannstrom was a very blue chip prospect. I think the plan was always a 5 year rebuilt and then we start to spend money and be competitive. I can't wait for next season to start, it feels so good to be open for business again.

If you watched the Locked on Senators podcast Pierre Dorion interview that happened yesterday. They asked him what was the most stressful part of the whole rebuild and he answered the Mark Stone trade. I'm paraphrasing but He mentioned that Duchene and Karlsson didnt want to be here so that was easy and they moved on to try to trade them but Mark Stone actually had interest in being here but they couldn't eventually get a deal done so they had to get something for him. At least thats what I got from the interview.

 

[JD1]

I’m glad people are finally understanding that Pierre took way too much heat from this fan base and in particular a few posters around here.

For years I preached that Melnyk had his dirty hands involved in everything and micro managed.

Dorion has redeemed his reputation with the removal of the Melnyk shackles and the moves that he has made so far.

The haters have to give him some credit now. You know who you are

I think people over weigh the Melnyk shackles. I get that he liked being involved, liked being in the know, but more than anything I think he set the budget and needing to live within it.

I think a lot of the moves made had more to do with icing some level of NHL experience within the budget envelope.. It's a huge restriction but it's also one your competitors know exist and they can twist you harder.

There's obviously a lot of fresh air around the franchise. Melnyk was one alienating SOB. It's great seeing the response of the past 6 months.

But that said, I think the budget increase happens anyway.

Here's something to consider about Lebreton. Round one. Melnyk on his death bed, not really involved in the bid. A team is assembled with the other principal equally as slippery as Melnyk. Melnyk survives the liver transplant, pulls out of the deal, cans Leeder. Round two. Melnyk is functional. A world class team is assembled. What role do you think he had in it?

 

[bicboi64]

I’m glad people are finally understanding that Pierre took way too much heat from this fan base and in particular a few posters around here.

For years I preached that Melnyk had his dirty hands involved in everything and micro managed.

Dorion has redeemed his reputation with the removal of the Melnyk shackles and the moves that he has made so far.

The haters have to give him some credit now. You know who you are

You know its possible to applaud what we perceive as good moves and also critique what we consider to be a bad move and not be a hater.

Melnyk wasn't holding Dorion's hand back when Dorion spent capspace on plugs and bad acquisitions (Murray, Gudbranson, Rielly, Stepan, etc...). Melnyk was no doubt a frustrating owner, but he opened the wallet as evidenced by player acquisitions. They were simply Dorion having poor judgement and making shitty moves.

I can give him credit for acquiring and securing talent this off season to the point that I'm as hyped as I've ever been before a season, AND also have the opinion that he's made some god awful moves in the past.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I think people over weigh the Melnyk shackles. I get that he liked being involved, liked being in the know, but more than anything I think he set the budget and needing to live within it.

I think a lot of the moves made had more to do with icing some level of NHL experience within the budget envelope.. It's a huge restriction but it's also one your competitors know exist and they can twist you harder.

There's obviously a lot of fresh air around the franchise. Melnyk was one alienating SOB. It's great seeing the response of the past 6 months.

But that said, I think the budget increase happens anyway.

Here's something to consider about Lebreton. Round one. Melnyk on his death bed, not really involved in the bid. A team is assembled with the other principal equally as slippery as Melnyk. Melnyk survives the liver transplant, pulls out of the deal, cans Leeder. Round two. Melnyk is functional. A world class team is assembled. What role do you think he had in it?

The only thing I would say is that he may have been a lot less Melnyk the hockey team owner and businessman, and a lot more Melnyk the dad looking to leave the team in the absolute best circumstances for his daughters, not to mention his own legacy.

Either way, as morbid as it seems, the timing of everything seems pretty much perfect. He got to be the villain during all the lean budget years while we really focused in saving money and slow building an excellent young core despite what many of the fanbase wanted. He also killed a bad arena deal and took that dark cloud to the grave as well.

The team, the organization, the new arena, the budget, all took an abrupt 180 after his passing with his daughters and management reaping all of the public rewards (management for sure eating theirs).

I’m not making a statement beyond how interesting the timing of his passing was in terms of the coinciding natural growth of the rebuild. All doom for Eugene, all roses so far for Olivia and Anna.

Obviously it could be argued that the turn was because of his passing, and certainly lots of the vibe and hires support that theory, but It is true that the hoard was already in place, and Pierre has said that spending this season was always part of the plan. Could he kind words for a friend who passed, could be the truth, could he both.

Anyhoo…

 

[Ice-Tray]

You know its possible to applaud what we perceive as good moves and also critique what we consider to be a bad move and not be a hater.

Melnyk wasn't holding Dorion's hand back when Dorion spent capspace on plugs and bad acquisitions (Murray, Gudbranson, Rielly, Stepan, etc...). Melnyk was no doubt a frustrating owner, but he opened the wallet as evidenced by player acquisitions. They were simply Dorion having poor judgement and making shitty moves.

I can give him credit for acquiring and securing talent this off season to the point that I'm as hyped as I've ever been before a season, AND also have the opinion that he's made some god awful moves in the past.

Sure, but we were selling a last place team, and had no money to pay for good players, who never would have wanted to come toil at the bottom during a rebuild.

When you are picking from the bottom of the barrel so to speak, you look for guys that at least have high level abilities somewhere.

We chose leadership, character, and mentor ship not only because that cheap and abundant amongst older players and guys looking to bounce back. But also it’s what our team needed. We had and we’re drafting all the talent, we needed cheap nhl bodies to play hockey positions around our young kids while we slowly developed them. Cheap because we needed to save money.

It’s perspective. Some in here are adamant that we are drooling over this team today despite a bunch of bad pick ups by Dorion, while some of us understand that those bad pick ups were just cheap players that we could sign and trade for, who would play here and be good pros (Stepan, Daddy and Murray were really the only two guys who didn’t work out as expected) over the years. These are the guys who insulated, defended, mentored, and demonstrated pro character for the young core we see as a burgeoning powerhouse now.

We spent a few seasons teaching the kids how to be character pros, developing slow, earning ice time, and playing the right way. Low skill high character guys helped the guys learn these lessons, all while not sacrificing our draft picks.

Those players are a huge part of why we are where we are, with the picks we ended up having. It wasn’t sexy, and it gave lots of ‘experts’ fodder to endlessly criticize, but the plan worked. The chemistry and character that the team built is undeniable.

‘The plan’ was to craft ‘a team’ by design, and we have done that in pretty epic fashion I’d say. Gotta prove it in the ice now, but few teams in the league are talked about in terms of lockerroom cohesiveness, play style, and potential as we are.

 

[Golden_Jet]

You know its possible to applaud what we perceive as good moves and also critique what we consider to be a bad move and not be a hater.

Melnyk wasn't holding Dorion's hand back when Dorion spent capspace on plugs and bad acquisitions (Murray, Gudbranson, Rielly, Stepan, etc...). Melnyk was no doubt a frustrating owner, but he opened the wallet as evidenced by player acquisitions. They were simply Dorion having poor judgement and making shitty moves.

I can give him credit for acquiring and securing talent this off season to the point that I'm as hyped as I've ever been before a season, AND also have the opinion that he's made some god awful moves in the past.

Luckily for us we were not spending money during rebuilding.

 

[OD99]

It’s perspective. Some in here are adamant that we are drooling over this team today despite a bunch of bad pick ups by Dorion, while some of us understand that those bad pick ups were just cheap players that we could sign and trade for, who would play here and be good pros (Stepan, Daddy and Murray were really the only two guys who didn’t work out as expected) over the years. These are the guys who insulated, defended, mentored, and demonstrated pro character for the young core we see as a burgeoning powerhouse now.

Come on. Don't play it this way dude, it doesn't help anything. "Some of us can see through the trees, blah, blah, blah". We had vets on the team already and I don't know of anyone that was a standout leader. Most understood there was reigns on what GMPD could do but let's not go down the path of the "true visionaries" and then the rest. Dorion made bad moves like any human being and he is on a heater of good moves now.

We spent a few seasons teaching the kids how to be character pros, developing slow, earning ice time, and playing the right way. Low skill high character guys helped the guys learn these lessons, all while not sacrificing our draft picks.

Not sure I am buying this.

Those players are a huge part of why we are where we are, with the picks we ended up having. It wasn’t sexy, and it gave lots of ‘experts’ fodder to endlessly criticize, but the plan worked. The chemistry and character that the team built is undeniable.

No they aren't and it sounds like someone else is trying to be, "the expert" here now. The kids that were drafted and acquired deserve ALL of the credit for the chemistry and culture that is in place now. Brady turned this team around on his own while being supported by Stone for a bit.

The plan’ was to craft ‘a team’ by design, and we have done that in pretty epic fashion I’d say. Gotta prove it in the ice now, but few teams in the league are talked about in terms of lockerroom cohesiveness, play style, and potential as we are.

Right, and that has nothing to do with Josh Brown, MDZ, Guddy, etc...

The kids made this happen and seems they are feeding off each other. Now we also have a legit leader who is respected as a HoF in CG and will help push the team where is needs to go since he has been there before.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Come on. Don't play it this way dude, it doesn't help anything. "Some of us can see through the trees, blah, blah, blah". We had vets on the team already and I don't know of anyone that was a standout leader. Most understood there was reigns on what GMPD could do but let's not go down the path of the "true visionaries" and then the rest. Dorion made bad move like any human being and he is on a heater of good moves now.

Not sure I am buying this.

No they aren't and it sounds like someone else is trying to be, "the expert" here now. The kids that were drafted and acquired deserve ALL of the credit for the chemistry and culture that is in place now. Brady turned this team around on his own while being supported by Stone for a bit.

Right, and that has nothing to do with Josh Brown, MDZ, Guddy, etc...

The kids made this happen and seems they are feeding off each other. Now we also have a legit leader who is respected as a HoF in CG and will help push the team where is needs to go since he has been there before.

Awww, you poor thing.

Listen dude, some of us have been saying this same thing during the whole rebuild, simply because we listened to what management and coaches and players were saying at the time. It’s not like I made that post up, I just put together a timeline of what was said directly to us.

I personally put up with endless shit from several posters who chose to have their own perspective on events, doom and gloom, and all that. It’s cool for the board to ‘be like that and worse’ for literal years, but yeah I should just continue to prop up that bullshit while we all hold hands today because those folks can’t handle being impatient and wrong. Lol, yeah no.

It turns out that the plan that was explained to us on an ongoing basis has been working out pretty well, both financially and on ice. I don’t care that you don’t want to hear me be stoked that my patience was rewarded. I had to listen to your shit and much worse from many every day, now it’s ‘your’ turn to deal, or do whatever it is you need to do to reconcile.

It’s classic HFSens to be wrong, outspoken about it, then quietly get in line later on down the road and get all defensive when called out.

This is yet another example of you being wrong because you don’t want to admit it. The players and coaches have already talked about how these guys were important and played a role. The coach and GM clearly explained why they were brought in, right down to low skill high character, and cheap. Especially taking on how they were to teach the kids to be good pros. You seem to think that kids only listen and learn from Hall of famers, but you are wrong. The kids themselves have spoken, ex players on podecast have spoken.

It’s not my opinion that I’m sharing here, it’s stuff that has been said by those involved directly, and those around the game.

Love how all the naysayers and haters for years all all victims now.

 

[OD99]

Awww, you poor thing.

Wow...nice.

Listen dude, some of us have been saying this same thing during the whole rebuild, simply because we listened to what management and coaches and players were saying at the time. It’s not like I made that post up, I just put together a timeline of what was said directly to us.

I personally put up with endless shit from several posters who chose to have their own perspective on events, doom and gloom, and all that. It’s cool for the board to ‘be like that and worse’ for literal years, but yeah I should just continue to prop up that bullshit while we all hold hands today because those folks can’t handle being impatient and wrong. Lol, yeah no.

It turns out that the plan that was explained to us on an ongoing basis has been working out pretty well, both financially and on ice. I don’t care that you don’t want to hear me be stoked that my patience was rewarded. I had to listen to your shit and much worse from many every day, now it’s ‘your’ turn to deal, or do whatever it is you need to do to reconcile.

Pretty clearly it is you that have the issues dude - this entire post is off the rails.

It’s classic HFSens to be wrong, outspoken about it, then quietly get in line later on down the road and get all defensive when called out.

WTF are you talking about? Who is called out and who is defensive? You think I thought you called me out?

This is yet another example of you being wrong because you don’t want to admit it. The players and coaches have already talked about how these guys were important and played a role. The coach and GM clearly explained why they were brought in, right down to low skill high character, and cheap. Especially taking on how they were to teach the kids to be good pros. You seem to think that kids only listen and learn from Hall of famers, but you are wrong. The kids themselves have spoken, ex players on podecast have spoken.

It’s not my opinion that I’m sharing here, it’s stuff that has been said by those involved directly, and those around the game.

Love how all the naysayers and haters for years all all victims now.

I am not playing a victim at all just calling you out for somehow determining that you are, "right" in all of this.

Damn dude, go have a toke and chill the F out - you are so out of line and misreading this it isn't even funny.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Wow...nice.

Pretty clearly it is you that have the issues dude - this entire post is off the rails.

WTF are you talking about? Who is called out and who is defensive? You think I thought you called me out?

I am not playing a victim at all just calling you out for somehow determining that you are, "right" in all of this.

Damn dude, go have a toke and chill the F out - you are so out of line and misreading this it isn't even funny.

lol, I’m off the rails and have issue, classic. Naw man, just having a little fun with you dudes, and it’s well earned thank you very much. I don’t feel the need to be ‘chill’ on this topic for fragile egos.

It’s all good with you personally, to me, and you’re getting back more here than you deserved because you’ve been more moderate comparatively, but the point stands…. I WAS right, because I counselled patient before freaking out, and posted things that were said by people making the decisions to counter the angry freak out.

The plan wasn’t perfect, but it made sense for this team, and it was explained as we went along, some folks just didn’t want to listen. Being vicious and trying to be the ‘expert’ was more important. Letting it unfold before freaking out was the ‘right’ decision as it typically is in life. Now we all get to enjoy the fruit.

It’s funny that it’s me that’s needs to chill out after 5 years of dudes flipping their lids, and calling out everyone who didn’t tow the line for the mob. Guys were pretty nasty in here, and now want to pretend it never happened. Whatever, we brush a shoulder off and all, but yeah, for some of us bootlicking morons “it ain’t beef, but it ain’t all good”. Some people showed their true colours and that genie doesn’t go back in the bottle.

Paint me however you need brother, I was patient and am enjoying the process, I just think it’s funny watching people doing mental gymnastics to have their cake and eat it too.

 

[Loach]

lol, I’m off the rails and have issue, classic. Naw man, just having a little fun with you dudes, and it’s well earned thank you very much. I don’t feel the need to be ‘chill’ on this topic for fragile egos.

It’s all good with you personally, to me, and you’re getting back more here than you deserved because you’ve been more moderate comparatively, but the point stands…. I WAS right, because I counselled patient before freaking out, and posted things that were said by people making the decisions to counter the angry freak out.

The plan wasn’t perfect, but it made sense for this team, and it was explained as we went along, some folks just didn’t want to listen. Being vicious and trying to be the ‘expert’ was more important. Letting it unfold before freaking out was the ‘right’ decision as it typically is in life. Now we all get to enjoy the fruit.

It’s funny that it’s me that’s needs to chill out after 5 years of dudes flipping their lids, and calling out everyone who didn’t tow the line for the mob. Guys were pretty nasty in here, and now want to pretend it never happened. Whatever, we brush a shoulder off and all, but yeah, for some of us bootlicking morons “it ain’t beef, but it ain’t all good”. Some people showed their true colours and that genie doesn’t go back in the bottle.

Paint me however you need brother, I was patient and am enjoying the process, I just think it’s funny watching people doing mental gymnastics to have their cake and eat it too.

Many things in this post.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Lots of good and bad the last 5 or so years. I fail to see anything worthy of I Told You So type posts. What Dorion did this summer was amazing and what everyone was asking for and more. I would have been happy just dumping Murray and signing Girioux. Melnyk was as bad as many thought, he was as much of a problem as many thought, he was outed for it, and now his exodus has let all the bad disappear in one fell swoop. Obviously the return of alumni players and embracing the community again is at the top of that list. Can't believe how much has changed and most of what Leblanc has to say is geared around making up for a lot of what they hadn't done well up to now. Dorion is getting all the credit, but I think Leblanc has done a bang up job. Even said they'll be getting traction on the foundation soon with the first major event coming up.

Honestly, if the fan base had been quiet and complimentary the last 5 years I'd be a little worried about the lack of fire burning inside. No fan base is happy having to turn off their hobby for half a decade.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Many things in this post.

Coolio