Management GM Pierre Dorion/Front Office Thread - Part IX [Mod Warning in post 1)

[HSF]

I still think PD will bring in a top 4 D

 

[Sweatred]

We also have Kelly and Watson besides Brady.

Yes.. Kelly would be the next guy I'd look to. He needs to step up and fight a bit more or be a guy who will run through someone fearlessly and play on and over the line. He's close... but as of last year Parker Kelly isn't a deterrent.

Gallagher isn't going to change the way he plays Stutzle or Sanderson because of Parker.

 

[Micklebot]

We also have Kelly and Watson besides Brady.

Kastelic can scrap if he makes the team, not convinced Kelly deters anyone though. Likewise, Formenton will drop the gloves but he's more of the type that will fight when challenged rather than go after someone and certainly isn't a deterrent, if anything his agitating style is more likely to encourage stuff.

 

[OD99]

Kastelic can scrap if he makes the team, not convinced Kelly deters anyone though. Likewise, Formenton will drop the gloves but he's more of the type that will fight when challenged rather than go after someone and certainly isn't a deterrent, if anything his agitating style is more likely to encourage stuff.

Nobody is a deterrent in todays game.

First, guys don't have to fight and if they get jumped they turtle and refs jump in while the attacker gets suspended.

Second, who are all these players running at our players? Jimmy had 2 or 3 guys go after him late in the season and nothing came of it. Good players get targeted and it has been that way forever - the best players don't let it phase them and the best teams have a wolf pack mentality. Also most teams also have guys they don't want to run or cheapshot's against so that in itself it a detterent.

There is zero issue with team toughness at this point.

 

[Micklebot]

Nobody is a deterrent in todays game.

First, guys don't have to fight and if they get jumped they turtle and refs jump in while the attacker gets suspended.

Second, who are all these players running at our players? Jimmy had 2 or 3 guys go after him late in the season and nothing came of it. Good players get targeted and it has been that way forever - the best players don't let it phase them and the best teams have a wolf pack mentality. Also most teams also have guys they don't want to run or cheapshot's against so that in itself it a detterent.

There is zero issue with team toughness at this point.

I'm not particularly worried about it myself, just pointing out we have a few guys that will fight if it comes to that.

As for deterrents, idk, there might be a couple guys like Wilson or Reeves, but the vast majority of teams just have willing combatants that will go after a guy that crosses the line. We have a couple guys that can do that. I'd rather it not be Tkachuk because he's too important to lose for 5 mins.

 

[JD1]

So you think teams will target our top 9 and top 4? LOL Good luck with that strategy!

The Senators haven't had any issues in the last few years and now their core is older and stronger. We are plenty big up front. Bath will drop them if necessary and CG has had some good tilts in his day. Forms isn't afraid and I doubt Joseph is either...then our 4th line is all guys who can fight.

Not even remotely true - list the teams that have fighters 2 lines deep?

We were 4th in the league and 1st in the east conference last year.

Finding someone to fight doesn't seem to be a problem for us

 

[Micklebot]

We were 4th in the league and 1st in the east conference last year.

Finding someone to fight doesn't seem to be a problem for us

We had to fight so much because we lacked a deterrent, probably...

 

[HSF]

Dorion needs to focus on a top 4 D not a fighter

 

[JD1]

We had to fight so much because we lacked a deterrent, probably...

I think we have some guys that just like fighting

Tkachuk being at the top of the list

 

[Sweatred]

I'm not particularly worried about it myself, just pointing out we have a few guys that will fight if it comes to that.

As for deterrents, idk, there might be a couple guys like Wilson or Reeves, but the vast majority of teams just have willing combatants that will go after a guy that crosses the line. We have a couple guys that can do that. I'd rather it not be Tkachuk because he's too important to lose for 5 mins.

That’s the issue - if we remove Brady from our equation , we don’t have a couple of guys.

The league is fast but it still has physicality, intimidation, cheap shots, and fighting.

Dorion needs to get an answer. It may just be a guy who gets called up once in a while … but he needs a other piece better than Sabourin.

 

[Micklebot]

That’s the issue - if we remove Brady from our equation , we don’t have a couple of guys.

The league is fast but it still has physicality, intimidation, cheap shots, and fighting.

Dorion needs to get an answer. It may just be a guy who gets called up once in a while … but he needs a other piece better than Sabourin.

Well, we have Watson, Hamonic, Kastelic and Formenton who I think all fought last year off the top of my head, oh and Kelly too. And Brady will never be removed from the equation, he's going to be a guy that fights, it's just in his DNA. Minimized is the best we can hope for, and I think we were fine in that regard last year.

Getting a fighter who's better than Sabourin should be very low on Dorion's to do list.

 

[bicboi64]

Forget enforcers, have Soogard on the bench. Dudes 6ft7. We haven't had anyone that tall since Bishop, and he might scare off some pests with his size. Just needs to develop a death glare

 

[Sweatred]

Well, we have Watson, Hamonic, Kastelic and Formenton who I think all fought last year off the top of my head, oh and Kelly too. And Brady will never be removed from the equation, he's going to be a guy that fights, it's just in his DNA. Minimized is the best we can hope for, and I think we were fine in that regard last year.

Getting a fighter who's better than Sabourin should be very low on Dorion's to do list.

I guess we will see what he adds… this board constantly underrates the value of physical play and overrated players who don’t play remotely physical games as physical players. Formenton and White come to mind.

 

[ijif]

I guess we will see what he adds… this board constantly underrates the value of physical play and overrated players who don’t play remotely physical games as physical players. Formenton and White come to mind.

I’m surprised those two players came to mind for you!

 

[Sweatred]

I’m surprised those two players came to mind for you, shocked!

Just two players who are often referenced as being much better two way/ tough to play against type players than they are.

Zub may be another one… good player … but not as good as a vocal group here suggests ($5 x5 etc) and his physicality is overrated.

I trust Dorion … I’d be willing to bet any addition is a player who can play a physical game and move bodies around. Who knows … maybe it’s not available , maybe he gets JC.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Just two players who are often referenced as being much better two way/ tough to play against type players than they are.

Zub may be another one… good player … but not as good as a vocal group here suggests ($5 x5 etc) and his physicality is overrated.

I haven’t seen anyone say Zub is a physical player.

 

[Poxsonus]

Nobody is a deterrent in todays game.

First, guys don't have to fight and if they get jumped they turtle and refs jump in while the attacker gets suspended.

Second, who are all these players running at our players? Jimmy had 2 or 3 guys go after him late in the season and nothing came of it. Good players get targeted and it has been that way forever - the best players don't let it phase them and the best teams have a wolf pack mentality. Also most teams also have guys they don't want to run or cheapshot's against so that in itself it a detterent.

There is zero issue with team toughness at this point.

In my opinion a highly-functioning powerplay is the best deterrant to any sort of egregious behaviour. The Sens are well set up in this regard.

 

[Sweatred]

In my opinion a highly-functioning powerplay is the best deterrant to any sort of egregious behaviour. The Sens are well set up in this regard.

A good PP doesn’t stop other teams from physically targeting good players.

 

[SensFactor]

 

[OD99]

A good PP doesn’t stop other teams from physically targeting good players.

Perhaps. If it doesn't then nothing does. I don't believe players look at a roster and say, 'Ok, this team gets a free ride tonight because X is in the lineup."

Players play and hits happen, emotions get involved as a game goes on but nobody is laying off McDavid because Kassian is in the line-up.

If Montreal goes after Stu then he can either handle himself or we can target Suzuki, Caufield, etc...

What team do you think is going to push us around or intimidate us?

 

[bicboi64]

What team do you think is going to push us around or intimidate us?

I dunno man, what if Marchand tries to lick Stu or Lemieux wants to bite him

 

[Sweatred]

Perhaps. If it doesn't then nothing does. I don't believe players look at a roster and say, 'Ok, this team gets a free ride tonight because X is in the lineup."

Players play and hits happen, emotions get involved as a game goes on but nobody is laying off McDavid because Kassian is in the line-up.

If Montreal goes after Stu then he can either handle himself or we can target Suzuki, Caufield, etc...

What team do you think is going to push us around or intimidate us?

Oh I think teams look at rosters and realize when they are heavier then their opponent- it’s happens all the time. They all know who plays heavy hockey and who is light.

MTL has already gone after Jimmy Jim Jim and we didn’t do a thing about it.

The deterrents that work are …

1. Run at my guy and I will fight you.
2. Run at my guy and I’ll run at the guy sitting beside you. If he’s hurt, it’s your fault and he can thank you tonight.

You need to be able to square off with whatever fighters the other team has. Brady may be able to fight their guy, but they may have two more guys that will fight someone. Watson takes one if healthy… who takes the next one?

You need to be a decent body checker to run someone effectively. Brady can, Watson can … and that’s about it. Hamonic’s the only thing we have keeping attacking forwards partially honest.

Dorion and the FO need to find someone. It can be a Belleville guy. This team is good enough to play with 11 forwards if one guy is just a deterrent.

 

[OD99]

Oh I think teams look at rosters and realize when they are heavier then their opponent- it’s happens all the time. They all know who plays heavy hockey and who is light.

Sure I agree with this but a deterrent doesn't do anything to stop this. Big and heavy teams play a big and heavy game every night as that is their style. Quick and fast teams play that way every night. The Senators are actually a pretty nice blend of both and getting better.

MTL has already gone after Jimmy Jim Jim and we didn’t do a thing about it.

Jimmy took care of that himself and it's a good thing for the league to know he can deal with things himself. I don't expect him to be a fighter but he is a solid dude and if he starts running guys they will know it.

The deterrents that work are …

1. Run at my guy and I will fight you.
2. Run at my guy and I’ll run at the guy sitting beside you. If he’s hurt, it’s your fault and he can thank you tonight.

Yet every game guys get run. A top PP% will have teams playing smart against the Sens because losing sucks.

You need to be able to square off with whatever fighters the other team has. Brady may be able to fight their guy, but they may have two more guys that will fight someone. Watson takes one if healthy… who takes the next one?

When is this happening in todays game? If there ends up being multiple fights then sure Brady, Watson, Kelly, Hamonic, etc... Again though, how often is this part of the game anymore?

You need to be a decent body checker to run someone effectively. Brady can, Watson can … and that’s about it. Hamonic’s the only thing we have keeping attacking forwards partially honest.

Kelly is a very good body checker and so is Formenton. Batherson lays it on at points in each game and Stu was 6th on the team last year. Attacking forwards have a tough time when Chabot is on and as Branny gets more ice, Sanderson matures it will be even harder to get the puck in our end or really get a forecheck going.

Dorion and the FO need to find someone. It can be a Belleville guy. This team is good enough to play with 11 forwards if one guy is just a deterrent.

Maybe for a special game with some fireworks already expected, if not it is a waste of a roster position. The game is far removed from you see to be seeing.

 

[Sweatred]

Sure I agree with this but a deterrent doesn't do anything to stop this. Big and heavy teams play a big and heavy game every night as that is their style. Quick and fast teams play that way every night. The Senators are actually a pretty nice blend of both and getting better.

Jimmy took care of that himself and it's a good thing for the league to know he can deal with things himself. I don't expect him to be a fighter but he is a solid dude and if he starts running guys they will know it.

Yet every game guys get run. A top PP% will have teams playing smart against the Sens because losing sucks.

When is this happening in todays game? If there ends up being multiple fights then sure Brady, Watson, Kelly, Hamonic, etc... Again though, how often is this part of the game anymore?

Kelly is a very good body checker and so is Formenton. Batherson lays it on at points in each game and Stu was 6th on the team last year. Attacking forwards have a tough time when Chabot is on and as Branny gets more ice, Sanderson matures it will be even harder to get the puck in our end or really get a forecheck going.

Maybe for a special game with some fireworks already expected, if not it is a waste of a roster position. The game is far removed from you see to be seeing.

Ohh.. that's a lot of effort. I'm completely OK accepting that we evaluate hockey differently. I don't think you're looking for to me educate you or convince you of anything and I'm certainly good to move on accepting that I generally disagree with everything you comment on here about hockey.

 

[OD99]

Ohh.. that's a lot of effort. I'm completely OK accepting that we evaluate hockey differently. I don't think you're looking for to me educate you or convince you of anything and I'm certainly good to move on accepting that I generally disagree with everything you comment on here about hockey.

Not sure what you mean by effort but writing a few sentences explaining the basics of the game is not strenuous for me at all.

Is this you politely asking me to not question anything you write anymore? If so, there is an ignore button for that.