Management GM Pierre Dorion/Front Office Thread - Part IX [Mod Warning in post 1)

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Ya, I know you complain a lot about our past owner (I hope your weren't personally impacted). Other than complaining, I can't really figure out what you're upset with this ownership group other than needing to hear from them and wanting them to own their fathers actions... Both of which are foolish to demand.

Why do you think I'm upset? I come at you pretty hard and did again there because I think you post a lot of bs here in general and come on pretty aggressively yourself as you did here initially, but you're completely missing the point if you think I'm upset about this.

I just think it's common sense that the majority still aren't confident in a thing that they don't even really know what it is. I weighed in on the poll results and why I think they are bound to shake out like that. They don't have anything to identify with yet and the press has focused on an impending decision from Ana and Olivia still needing to be made, including the statement directly from Bettman. Nobody is "demanding" anything, they just are waiting to find out more and discussing it in the meantime, and yes, presumably in the back of their minds still associating the current group with the toxic one that just passed away until proven otherwise. Its not going to be instant confidence based solely on him passing away, but I'm also not saying it's impossible, just that the poll results are a bit of a given.

 

[JD1]

I'm still waiting for the organization to verify they arent keeping my money for games they wouldn't let me attend (or weren't able due to Covid restrictions) and get back to me on how I can use that credit to upgrade my package next season.

They literally won't help me give them money and I refuse to keep trying.

Really? That's odd. I re-upped on STHs about three weeks ago and had a discount applied for games lost. There was an option for a refund.

When you say "they" wouldn't let me attend - It wasn't the team that wouldn't let you attend, they were following provincial rules.

 

[ksens]

We have new ownership, let’s see what they do first?

That was an option in Ian's poll. 8% of 1500 respondents thought that was a good idea. Eight.

Time to sell.

 

[JD1]

Can you point to where he claimed to be upset with or made any indication of being upset with Olivia and Anna Melnyk?

Well, I'd think spending hours typing about it is a bit of an indication

That was an option in Ian's poll. 8% of 1500 respondents thought that was a good idea. Eight.

Time to sell.

Do you think Ian's survey is completely representative of the fan or customer base?

 

[ksens]

Do you think Ian's survey is completely representative of the fan or customer base?

1500 people who are big enough fans of the team to pay for The Athletic to get Sens news. Short of surveying the STH (and of course the organization is never going to ask the questions Ian asked) this is as representative as it is going to get in terms of sampling people who are likely going to spend money on the team in 2022/23.

 

[Micklebot]

Well, I'd think spending hours typing about it is a bit of an indication

Can you point to what he typed? I was looking for specifics, I read most of what he typed here and I'm not seeing it.

 

[JD1]

Can you point to what he typed? I was looking for specifics, I read most of what he typed here and I'm not seeing it.

He's been typing on the general subject for days.

 

[Micklebot]

That was an option in Ian's poll. 8% of 1500 respondents thought that was a good idea. Eight.

Time to sell.

I think it was 9.7%, but I also think the question was worded in such a way as to ask what their preference was rather than whether they though it was a good idea (I didn't do the survey, but the article has a question listed that doesn't really clearly align with the options). I think many people see a new 100% owner, or Olivia and Anna selling off a majority while retaining a legacy stake options as a cash infusion through new ownership. That's of course going to be more popular than them retaining the team 100% since right now all they are is two big question marks.

Edit: I think the survey reflects the timing that it was taken at, we have finished a disappointing season where if anything we did a touch worse than last year (arguably due to injuries). I think right now you aren't going to see a lot of optimism in general. Draft day and UFA day could easily change the tone though. Pick a guy fans are really hyped about, or trade the pick for a legit piece and things could look different. Sign Giroux and things could look different.

Dorion talked about how he'd like to be judged not on where the team is now, but where they are to start the season, I think that's fair, and won't be too high or too down on the outlook for next year and going forward until we get closer to opening night.

 

[JD1]

1500 people who are big enough fans of the team to pay for The Athletic to get Sens news. Short of surveying the STH (and of course the organization is never going to ask the questions Ian asked) this is as representative as it is going to get in terms of sampling people who are likely going to spend money on the team in 2022/23.

Lots of people have Athletic subscriptions. I do. I've had one for some time. I also read the survey and didn't bother responding to it.

I think you're making an assumption that 1500 people get the Athletic for Sens news. The Athletic writes about a lot of sports.

At this point, to some degree I think Ian is catering to the disgruntled Sens fan and the survey itself reflects that. Frankly, it's why I didn't answer it. That disgruntled fan is perhaps least likely to spend money on tickets next year.

 

[Micklebot]

He's been typing on the general subject for days.

Of being upset with Anna and Olivia? I don't think so. Discussing ownership and being upset with Anna and Olivia are very different things. The direction ownership goes will have a big impact on the team going forward, you can discuss that without being upset at them, you can want new ownership without being upset at them. You can believe they don't have the requisite experience to manage a multi-million dollar organization without being upset with anything they've done. I think most people can agree the team needs to have stable ownership, it's not clear if they can be that, or what direction they'd take the team if they maintain ownership. It's also not clear that they can't be that. Is discussing the situation an indication of being upset with it?

 

[Big Muddy]

Wow. 1,500 is a significant sample size. Nice to see this thinking isn’t isolated to HF as some would have us believe.

You mean the casual fan that doesn't notice anything? Say it ain't so. LOL.

 

[Big Muddy]

"stop talking about things I dont want you to talk about! It makes me mad!"

Pretty much.

I've got a bone in my mouth and I'm not letting go.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Well, I'd think spending hours typing about it is a bit of an indication

He's been typing on the general subject for days.

I only want what I think is best for the Ottawa Senators as a franchise and like to discuss the ownership situation that we have been told by the league and media is still needing to be decided. It is the biggest news story surrounding the team and will continue to be until it's set in stone.

I have been upset about Melnyk's behavior and have made that known, I like to challenge Sweatred a lot as they do me, no doubt about that, but that is not to be confused with anger about Anna and Olivia. I have no skin in this game other than what I think is best for the team, and was only pointing out that most people likely don't yet have confidence in this new, so far faceless, ownership group, but that just seems like common sense to me. How can you have confidence in a thing you don't even know what it is?

I don't care about Anna and Olivia's interests personally and would prefer something of more of an ownership group with multiple big players, if that's on the table as it sounds like it is, because I think that's what would give the franchise its best chance in many ways, including a new arena, but I don't see how that means I'm angry at them, I just hope they decide to move on.

 

[Big Muddy]

I have mentioned before that I think this will take time to unfold.

Unfortunately, the delay imho is unfortunate because its a lost opportunity to market the "new Ottawa Senators".

 

[saskriders]

You mean the casual fan that doesn't notice anything? Say it ain't so. LOL.

Can people that pay for a subscription service be classified as "casual fans"?

 

[bert]

Funny you would think that I ignored your post. I just prefer to do something now while Stutzle and Sanderson and Formenton are not priced off the team.. I am realistic to the budget pressure of this team. If I felt that this team would spend to the cap then , hell no, I wouldn't trade that pick. But trading that pick to a team that is up against the cap works for the cap limited team as well as team that has cap space, right? Those three players will be too expensive for Ottawa soon, unless something happens ownership-wise.

I was responding to someone else, as that person didn't feel that, or was intimating that those players will not improve enough, along with the "core" to make a playoff push. I was making a point that those guys are going to continue to ramp up


This team needs Connor Brown on it. This is where the team must stay away from a perpetual rebuild

This team has 20 million in cap space and 20 million tied up in bad contracts. They have plenty of room to pay those players. Keeping the pick is the most cost effective way to move forward. Did you not see the list of UFA's? Have you looked at cap friendly? All the best teams are pressed against the cap or will have to trade players just to get under budget. There are a multitude of ways to improve the team without trading the 7th overall pick after the team was 30 points out of the playoffs. Believe it or not this teams real window is going to be in 4-5 years when Stutzle and Sanderson are 25 and Norris Tkachuk are in their late 20's. That 7th overall pick will be 22. I get people want results now and the losing has sucked but this team went scorched earth it was always going to take 5 + years from the point they started drafting these players. Were you a fan in the 90's? Try and remember how that team was built.

 

[Big Muddy]

Can people that pay for a subscription service be classified as "casual fans"?

I wasn't actually trying to infer or suggest anything about Athletic subscribers. My "intent" was to suggest that this attitude is held across a wide cross section of Senator fans.

 

[Big Muddy]

This team has 20 million in cap space and 20 million tied up in bad contracts. They have plenty of room to pay those players. Keeping the pick is the most cost effective way to move forward. Did you not see the list of UFA's? Have you looked at cap friendly? All the best teams are pressed against the cap or will have to trade players just to get under budget. There are a multitude of ways to improve the team without trading the 7th overall pick after the team was 30 points out of the playoffs. Believe it or not this teams real window is going to be in 4-5 years when Stutzle and Sanderson are 25 and Norris Tkachuk are in their late 20's. That 7th overall pick will be 22. I get people want results now and the losing has sucked but this team went scorched earth it was always going to take 5 + years from the point they started drafting these players. Were you a fan in the 90's? Try and remember how that team was built.

Ya, when I looked at CapFriendly I was surprised by how many teams had to add quite a few players with not that much cap room to work with. My quick estimate or calculation was that 21 teams were in this position. As an example, there were a lot of teams with let's say around $12 m of cap space, but had to sign 6 players to fill out a 23-player roster. In some cases, they had to fill out half of their defense. Its definitely a buyers market. That's understandable as there been COVID and a flat cap for a couple of years.

 

[Sweatred]

Can you point to where he claimed to be upset with or made any indication of being upset with Olivia and Anna Melnyk?

Yes -

 

[inthewings]

Hmmm… 95% hated the EK trade , 95% loved the White signing, 80% hated the Hamonic acquisition … not sure what this means…

For the sake of completion, most fans also liked the Brady extension, the Batherson extension, the Chabot extension, and the Paul trade and disliked the Stepan trade, Stone trade, and Anderson extension. In each case the fanbase was actually 100% correct.

 

[Sweatred]

1500 people who are big enough fans of the team to pay for The Athletic to get Sens news. Short of surveying the STH (and of course the organization is never going to ask the questions Ian asked) this is as representative as it is going to get in terms of sampling people who are likely going to spend money on the team in 2022/23.

1500 of Ian’s anti Melynk fans think Melynk’s daughters should sell… shocking.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Who isn't being patient?

You're confusing speculation and hope with lack of patience. There's many threads to just discuss lineups and development, etc. if that's all that a particular fan is interested in and that's their right, just as much as those still debating and wondering what the future holds for the franchise. I'm most interested in the ownership issue because I think it's the single most important factor for the team that's finally open to the possibility of change.

If you didn't see ownership as the primary problem, I would fully expect you to carry on and not care. If you felt otherwise, I can only assume that's still the primary point of interest surrounding the team.

I think you've made your views clear, but I'm not going to argue with you about it, everyone else can read our posts and make judgements for themselves.

There is nothing wrong with the current ownership…. They will hold on to the franchise and CTC, until they decide to sell. They have a clean slate with the majority of the fans….. the water of the past, has passed under the bridge.

Every owner, and every future owner, of the Ottawa Senators will have to deal with the challenges of operating this franchise, in a small Canadian Market, where the single largest employer ( 300,000 employees nation wide ) in the Nation, has most of it’s operations in Ottawa/Gatineau…. And cannot comp boxes or tickets.

for some reason, a lot of people think an owner “ with deep pockets “ is going to come galloping along on a white horse and shovel their own money into the operation of this franchise….. that is a dream, and will never happen. The only thing I can see as having a positive impact on this franchise, is the Canadian dollar rising in value against the US dollar… and I mean rising up above the .90 cent us mark.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Yes -

You will not find a single post in my history where I am angry at Anna and Olivia. Not one.

You will find me angry about their dad's abusive behavior and his toxic ownership tenure along with my own opinions on what the next group needs to do to going forward, including a possible scenario of Anna and Olivia continuing as owners, but none where I am angry at them in particular. I've even said a few times how envious I am of them and their inheritance.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

There is nothing wrong with the current ownership…. They will hold on to the franchise and CTC, until they decide to sell. They have a clean slate with the majority of the fans….. the water of the past, has passed under the bridge.

Every owner, and every future owner, of the Ottawa Senators will have to deal with the challenges of operating this franchise, in a small Canadian Market, where the single largest employer ( 300,000 employees nation wide ) in the Nation, has most of it’s operations in Ottawa/Gatineau…. And cannot comp boxes or tickets.

for some reason, a lot of people think an owner “ with deep pockets “ is going to come galloping along on a white horse and shovel their own money into the operation of this franchise….. that is a dream, and will never happen. The only thing I can see as having a positive impact on this franchise, is the Canadian dollar rising in value against the US dollar… and I mean rising up above the .90 cent us mark.

I appreciate your perspective and will politely disagree on some of it, but not all.

Gary Bettman and the media have all said there is a decision process needing to take place by Anna and Olivia first, so regardless of your assurances that this is all done and sealed, it doesn't align with the information provided to the public, some founded from the horses mouth and some rumored. That's not to say they won't stay. And I agree that fans are ready to attend and let old wounds die, but I don't think the survey results are surprising either and was what I was weighing in on.

If your last paragraph were correct, imo there wouldn't be so much rumored interest including Roger Greenberg stating publicly they would like to get involved. I don't think anyone expects someone to walk in and lose 50 million a year for nothing, but there is clearly an opportunity seen here that some folk like yourselves don't agree with. If you feel Melnyk did all he could in this market, then I can see why you would hold that opinion, but I am steadfast in my belief that he was actively holding this team back, including affecting the bottom line they had to work with. Ian and Katie's article seems to back that up, but I understand some do not want to take that at face value.

 

[Wondercarrot]

I appreciate your perspective and will politely disagree on some of it, but not all.

Gary Bettman and the media have all said there is a decision process needing to take place by Anna and Olivia first, so regardless of your assurances that this is all done and sealed, it doesn't align with the information provided to the public, some founded from the horses mouth and some rumored. That's not to say they won't stay. And I agree that fans are ready to attend and let old wounds die, but I don't think the survey results are surprising either and was what I was weighing in on.

If your last paragraph were correct, imo there wouldn't be so much rumored interest including Roger Greenberg stating publicly they would like to get involved. I don't think anyone expects someone to walk in and lose 50 million a year for nothing, but there is clearly an opportunity seen here that some folk like yourselves don't agree with. If you feel Melnyk did all he could in this market, then I can see why you would hold that opinion, but I am steadfast in my belief that he was actively holding this team back, including affecting the bottom line they had to work with. Ian and Katie's article seems to back that up, but I understand some do not want to take that at face value.

Well said