Management GM Pierre Dorion/Front Office Thread - Part IX [Mod Warning in post 1)

[JD1]

I only want what I think is best for the Ottawa Senators as a franchise and like to discuss the ownership situation that we have been told by the league and media is still needing to be decided. It is the biggest news story surrounding the team and will continue to be until it's set in stone.

I have been upset about Melnyk's behavior and have made that known, I like to challenge Sweatred a lot as they do me, no doubt about that, but that is not to be confused with anger about Anna and Olivia. I have no skin in this game other than what I think is best for the team, and was only pointing out that most people likely don't yet have confidence in this new, so far faceless, ownership group, but that just seems like common sense to me. How can you have confidence in a thing you don't even know what it is?

I don't care about Anna and Olivia's interests personally and would prefer something of more of an ownership group with multiple big players, if that's on the table as it sounds like it is, because I think that's what would give the franchise its best chance in many ways, including a new arena, but I don't see how that means I'm angry at them, I just hope they decide to move on.

I mean you were upset with the ownership situation, not Melnyk's daughters. The entire situation is unsettling and needs resolution

 

[OD99]

Really? That's odd. I re-upped on STHs about three weeks ago and had a discount applied for games lost. There was an option for a refund.

When you say "they" wouldn't let me attend - It wasn't the team that wouldn't let you attend, they were following provincial rules.

Yes that is why I added the Covid restrictions part.

However in the flex packs you are in certain sections and if those get sold out (because they are having a BOGO for instance - or Maple Leaf/Habs fans buy them) then you can't apply your ticket for it.

There were many games that happened and my first response back from them was that I could purchase tickets in the 100s. Not even pay the difference, just flat out buy additional tickets.

If you have a good rep please DM me their info and I will be happy to have someone help me.

 

[JD1]

Yes that is why I added the Covid restrictions part.

However in the flex packs you are in certain sections and if those get sold out (because they are having a BOGO for instance - or Maple Leaf/Habs fans buy them) then you can't apply your ticket for it.

There were many games that happened and my first response back from them was that I could purchase tickets in the 100s. Not even pay the difference, just flat out buy additional tickets.

If you have a good rep please DM me their info and I will be happy to have someone help me.

I'll track down the rep for you. I'm in on a split on a full package with a couple of buddies but I'm not the guy that interacts with them. I'll be out of town for two days without power. I'll get back to you early next week

 

[BankStreetParade]

Wow. 1,500 is a significant sample size. Nice to see this thinking isn’t isolated to HF as some would have us believe.

The same "some" who told us that this forum was not in any way, shape or form representative of the broader fanbase when we say there's pervasive negativity and cynicism here?

You mean the casual fan that doesn't notice anything? Say it ain't so. LOL.

You think people who pay for an Athletic subscription to read NHL stories are casual fans? Also, not sure it says that all 1500 responses came from Sens fans.

 

[Big Muddy]

The same "some" who told us that this forum was not in any way, shape or form representative of the broader fanbase when we say there's pervasive negativity and cynicism here?

You think people who pay for an Athletic subscription to read NHL stories are casual fans? Also, not sure it says that all 1500 responses came from Sens fans.

It was a joke. But people aren't understanding the intent or humor. Whatever I guess.

 

[Frank8]

This team has 20 million in cap space and 20 million tied up in bad contracts. They have plenty of room to pay those players. Keeping the pick is the most cost effective way to move forward. Did you not see the list of UFA's? Have you looked at cap friendly? All the best teams are pressed against the cap or will have to trade players just to get under budget. There are a multitude of ways to improve the team without trading the 7th overall pick after the team was 30 points out of the playoffs. Believe it or not this teams real window is going to be in 4-5 years when Stutzle and Sanderson are 25 and Norris Tkachuk are in their late 20's. That 7th overall pick will be 22. I get people want results now and the losing has sucked but this team went scorched earth it was always going to take 5 + years from the point they started drafting these players. Were you a fan in the 90's? Try and remember how that team was built.

Pierre can't afford to be patient with his career on the line. Being a decent scout and a loyal "yes man" won't be enough to land him another GM job if he can't show results. He'll try to make the team as competitive as possible for next season and who can blame him? The core five guys are very good and they each have at least another level of development. If he can surround them with some talent anything can happen. Don't get too attached to that pick, for better or for worse, it's likely gone.

 

[Sweatred]

You will not find a single post in my history where I am angry at Anna and Olivia. Not one.

You will find me angry about their dad's abusive behavior and his toxic ownership tenure along with my own opinions on what the next group needs to do to going forward, including a possible scenario of Anna and Olivia continuing as owners, but none where I am angry at them in particular. I've even said a few times how envious I am of them and their inheritance.

Asking (and expecting) the girls to account for their father is a form of aggression.

 

[Cosmix]

I understand that point of view, and if it weren't for our ownership situation, I would agree with you and do what normal NHL teams would do. But this ownership has never been normal. I just don't see them being able to sign the core players without sacrificing the Colemans, the Maroons, the Nick Pauls, that you need to go deep. Moving Connor Brown would signify to me that this team is not serious about winning because, when the checking gets tight, the spotlight turns to him and Formenton, PInto hopefully, to support the top two lines. If we have Ennis in that role than we are always going to be f***ed.

Ennis would only be a short term player for another year. I like Connor Brown and would like to retain him for maybe 4 years but hopefully not at a high AAV as he will start to decline soon.

 

[Ice-Tray]

That was an option in Ian's poll. 8% of 1500 respondents thought that was a good idea. Eight.

Time to sell.

I’m not sure listening to average fans’ opinions on things they know honestly nothing about is a good idea, it’s why no one really pays attention to these kinds of polls.

But I get your point. Lots of people who took the time to answer this survey want the whole thing replaced and a set of wealthy(er) owners to come in and fix everything.

I understand the sentiment, and I too want nice things, I just don’t expect the white knight treatment here. I’ll be happy with a professionally run organization

1500 people who are big enough fans of the team to pay for The Athletic to get Sens news. Short of surveying the STH (and of course the organization is never going to ask the questions Ian asked) this is as representative as it is going to get in terms of sampling people who are likely going to spend money on the team in 2022/23.

Eh, as I said, people respond to these things when they have a bone to pick, like posting on car forums. I fit into the group you mention and would never bother with this or any online survey. To me they are pointless wastes of time.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Pierre can't afford to be patient with his career on the line. Being a decent scout and a loyal "yes man" won't be enough to land him another GM job if he can't show results. He'll try to make the team as competitive as possible for next season and who can blame him? The core five guys are very good and they each have at least another level of development. If he can surround them with some talent anything can happen. Don't get too attached to that pick, for better or for worse, it's likely gone.

We should at least try and remember that Pierre was groomed for the position by Brian Murray who also advised him until his passing. He didn’t exactly stumble into the job by accident.

I don’t think PD is going to make any moves to ‘save his career’. The rebuild is coming along well and it’s getting to be time to actually spring for a decent asset. The fact that he spoke to the two captains and then shared their desires was a nice touch to inform fans how dedicated to winning the group was.

He will eventually be fired, as will the coach, they all end up that way, so eventually folks will get what they want. Might as well try and enjoy the meantime

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Asking (and expecting) the girls to account for their father is a form of aggression.

Not at all, it demonstrates a difference of opinion on the subject and what we think organizations and their owners should be doing from an ethics standpoint in instances like that. I was also pretty forward that I felt it was necessary in large part to correct and make up for the initial team statement condemning the accusers and the journalists behind it that was pulled quickly. You're entitled to your opinion on it, but we've disagreed about a lot surrounding the story and Melnyk's tenure, so I don't see a need to debate that any further.

 

[Frank8]

We should at least try and remember that Pierre was groomed for the position by Brian Murray who also advised him until his passing. He didn’t exactly stumble into the job by accident.

I don’t think PD is going to make any moves to ‘save his career’. The rebuild is coming along well and it’s getting to be time to actually spring for a decent asset. The fact that he spoke to the two captains and then shared their desires was a nice touch to inform fans how dedicated to winning the group was.

He will eventually be fired, as will the coach, they all end up that way, so eventually folks will get what they want. Might as well try and enjoy the meantime

My post wasn't an indictment of Pierre, I was merely pointing out that he's in a "win soon" mode as opposed to taking a more patient approach.

 

[coladin]

This team has 20 million in cap space and 20 million tied up in bad contracts. They have plenty of room to pay those players. Keeping the pick is the most cost effective way to move forward. Did you not see the list of UFA's? Have you looked at cap friendly? All the best teams are pressed against the cap or will have to trade players just to get under budget. There are a multitude of ways to improve the team without trading the 7th overall pick after the team was 30 points out of the playoffs. Believe it or not this teams real window is going to be in 4-5 years when Stutzle and Sanderson are 25 and Norris Tkachuk are in their late 20's. That 7th overall pick will be 22. I get people want results now and the losing has sucked but this team went scorched earth it was always going to take 5 + years from the point they started drafting these players. Were you a fan in the 90's? Try and remember how that team was built.

If the real window of this team is in 4-5 years, Brady will not be here. Chabot as well. There is real pressure from the core to speed this thing up. Whether you or anyone preaches patience. The sentiment in that room is they need help. Now.

20 million in cap space on a tram with limited resources sure as shit didn’t do themselves favours with 20M in bad contracts. Hell, I would package that 7th and Zaitsev to ARI for future considerations. Buyout White too. I am just realistic about the challenges of this market and ownership. Doesn’t mean I agree with it, but it is what I feel they should do

 

[OD99]

Delete

 

[saskriders]

I think if we aren't looking like a team that is in a playoff race by January then Dorion has to go. Sanderson is the last "core prospect" to join the team. While there are still holes to fill we have talent and should be somewhat competitive. I think if next year is a failure then Dorion's plan has failed any we need someone else to takeover.

 

[Ice-Tray]

My post wasn't an indictment of Pierre, I was merely pointing out that he's in a "win soon" mode as opposed to taking a more patient approach.

Man I hope those two are one in the same, as in patience win now folk, we’re in a win soon mode!

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Not at all, it demonstrates a difference of opinion on the subject and what we think organizations and their owners should be doing from an ethics standpoint in instances like that. I was also pretty forward that I felt it was necessary in large part to correct and make up for the initial team statement condemning the accusers and the journalists behind it that was pulled quickly. You're entitled to your opinion on it, but we've disagreed about a lot surrounding the story and Melnyk's tenure, so I don't see a need to debate that any further.

You are the king of misinformation. Now you saying the organisation was "condemning the accusers and the journalists behind it"?

wow.wow

show me thAt statement.

In a response to The Athletic, Senators president Anthony LeBlanc termed the timing of the story “remarkably insensitive,” and added that the rush to publish a piece with so little new information was “questionable and opportunistic.”

By Thursday morning, the team had prepared a statement to provide to reporters who requested one. But by the afternoon, the statement was withdrawn at the request of the Melnyk family.

 

[JD1]

If the real window of this team is in 4-5 years, Brady will not be here. Chabot as well. There is real pressure from the core to speed this thing up. Whether you or anyone preaches patience. The sentiment in that room is they need help. Now.

20 million in cap space on a tram with limited resources sure as shit didn’t do themselves favours with 20M in bad contracts. Hell, I would package that 7th and Zaitsev to ARI for future considerations. Buyout White too. I am just realistic about the challenges of this market and ownership. Doesn’t mean I agree with it, but it is what I feel they should do

There's no 4 to 5 years. 5 years from now the window might well be closing. Tkachuk, Batherson, Norris, Stuetzle, Chabot, Sanderson, Formenton, Pinto, Brannstrom, whatever White is. All of those guys are ready for prime time by the 23-24 season. This train has to pick up speed. All the core pieces are there.

 

[Sweatred]

Not at all, it demonstrates a difference of opinion on the subject and what we think organizations and their owners should be doing from an ethics standpoint in instances like that. I was also pretty forward that I felt it was necessary in large part to correct and make up for the initial team statement condemning the accusers and the journalists behind it that was pulled quickly. You're entitled to your opinion on it, but we've disagreed about a lot surrounding the story and Melnyk's tenure, so I don't see a need to debate that any further.

Sorry … you can’t spew garbage and than mute every objection to it.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Oh look!

 

[Micklebot]

You are the king of misinformation. Now you saying the organisation was "condemning the accusers and the journalists behind it"?

wow.wow

show me thAt statement.

In a response to The Athletic, Senators president Anthony LeBlanc termed the timing of the story “remarkably insensitive,” and added that the rush to publish a piece with so little new information was “questionable and opportunistic.”

By Thursday morning, the team had prepared a statement to provide to reporters who requested one. But by the afternoon, the statement was withdrawn at the request of the Melnyk family.

Maybe put the full comment instead of a sanitized snippet, the tone is very different when you include the rest.

The timing and sudden urgency of Athletic’s story about Eugene Melnyk so soon after his death less than three weeks ago is remarkably insensitive and opportunistic,” the club said in a statement. “Furthermore, Athletic’s rush to publish a story filled with old grudges and grievances almost entirely from anonymous sources with personal scores to settle is lamentable.”
“Although a team of at least three reporters worked on the piece for more than a year, it is worth noting that no attempt was ever made by Ian Mendes, Dan Robson, Katie Strang or anyone else involved at the Athletic to contact Eugene directly prior to his death,” the Senators added. “Regrettably, Eugene was not given the opportunity to respond or even defend himself against the highly inflammatory content before it was published.”

Calling it Old grudges and scores to settle by anonymous sources sounds very much like LeBlanc was trying to call into question the credibility and motives of the sources and the stories they told, and calling the athletics choice to publish it lamentable is certainly condemning the journalists/athletic.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Maybe put the full comment instead of a sanitized snippet, the tone is very different when you include the rest.



Calling it Old grudges and scores to settle by anonymous sources sounds very much like LeBlanc was trying to call into question the credibility and motives of the sources and the stories they told, and calling the athletics choice to publish it lamentable is certainly condemning the journalists/athletic.

Oh… so the organization was condemning the accusers? C’mon.

 

[Micklebot]

Oh… so the organization was condemning the accusers? C’mon.

Give your head a shake, they where very clearly trying to discredit the accusations and by extension those making them.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Give your head a shake, they where very clearly trying to discredit the accusations and by extension those making them.

nah… i am not the one who has the blinders on

 

[Micklebot]

nah… i am not the one who has the blinders on

Lol, what other possible interpretation is there of calling the accusations old grudges by anonomous sources with personal scores to settle?

You don't just have blinders on, you've stuck your fingers in your ears and your head in the sand and can't see what's right in front of your face.