Management GM Pierre Dorion/Front Office Thread - Part IX [Mod Warning in post 1)

[Micklebot]

I interpret your statement as I am saying “it didn’t happen”.

I have to disagree.

Sorry, for the sake of brevity I omitted "in the way or to the extent that some are portraying it". The sentiment is the same, because we didn't see direct evidence earlier, what has since come out must not be as bad as it seems. Either way your position is far from an obvious and logical conclusion, and it's takes like that which make victims less likely to come out.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

You are the king of misinformation. Now you saying the organisation was "condemning the accusers and the journalists behind it"?

wow.wow

show me thAt statement.

In a response to The Athletic, Senators president Anthony LeBlanc termed the timing of the story “remarkably insensitive,” and added that the rush to publish a piece with so little new information was “questionable and opportunistic.”

By Thursday morning, the team had prepared a statement to provide to reporters who requested one. But by the afternoon, the statement was withdrawn at the request of the Melnyk family.

King of misinformation because you don't agree? What else is new. I've shown the receipts and I can't see how you can interpret it any other way, but maybe that's possible if you cherry pick parts of it like this that you obviously chose to do deliberately here to try to prove a point.

You've made your position clear, you're entitled to your opinion on it too even if I think it's a pile of trash, but I think you're out of line coming on this strong about a statement that is pretty damn clear and you just don't like that it happened just the same as Melnyk being exposed.

I think you should really look in the mirror a bit here in general considering your role. You have had a heavy hand here and your sarcasm does not come off the way you seem to think it does. Doesn't have to be a big pissing contest, but if you're coming at people with bullshit like this then you're clearly opening yourself up to being called out too. Your position on this story was as predictable as the sun coming up and now you've full on come out and said you think it's all just overblown, which in the back of my mind I was assuming anyways. I think it's deplorable and I think the truth of it is that you hitched your wagon to him a long time ago by trying to stomp out Melnyk discussion here and censor any attention on the shit he was doing and you can't stop now. We've all shown our cards at this point and I will not back down that you're just trying to downplay and by nature help cover up for a toxic abuser.

Sorry … you can’t spew garbage and than mute every objection to it.

C'mon now, that's what you do here in every thread.

 

[IpsoPostFacto]

Why would I answer that? If you'd read anything I've said, you'd know that's not at all my point.

You can disagree all you want, totally fine, but that's not a genuine response.

plus, I didn't realize that 3 was the ISO unit of measurement for displeasure with a pro sports team.

how about "hey there new owners, I don't really know you, how about an introduction"

 

[Cosmix]

Can’t tell if this was sarcastic or not … but I’d be shocked to see Ian touch a negative story on NHL players.

I’m behind on the story, but this could be bad… potentially worse than EM’s wrongs… I wonder if those who scream to have Melynk (and the family) cancelled will apply this to the players …

I agree. I doubt that a sports reporter who needs sports contacts will conduct investigative reporting of wrongs being done by sports teams, players, etc. That type of reporting requires reporters who investigate such issues and who do not have to rely on those being investigated for their livelihood.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I hear another org personnel is not very fond of Dorion.

 

[Cosmix]

I hear another org personnel is not very fond of Dorion.

Explain. Do you mean another organization has concerns or someone in the Senators upper management?

 

[Sweatred]

Did you quote the wrong person? Not sure how that relates to what I said.

Why would you hold victims accountable that settled privately? It's their right to do so if that's their preference over public exposure.

I may have - I thought I was quoting. IceT … apologies …

Haven’t some of Melynk’s worst sins not been settled ? Should we take your advice and move on?

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I may have - I thought I was quoting. IceT … apologies …

Haven’t some of Melynk’s worst sins not been settled ? Should we take your advice and move on?

Makes sense. Yes no need.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Explain. Do you mean another organization has concerns or someone in the Senators upper management?

Someone in senators upper management

 

[Micklebot]

Maybe. But the fact that we are still legitimately asking women why they didn’t leave an alleged abuser earlier is disgusting. This shit has been studied to death.

Telling victims that they aren’t really victims because they didn’t act sooner is gross.

Agree 100% with your general sentiment, and while I can see how we got here, I think it's not really a path we need to go further down wrt this thread.

Let's try and get back to Sens Front office specific discussion, hopefully they'll give us something positive to discuss this offseason...

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

How is Dorion going to f*** us this offseason

Most important off-season for the future of the current core.

Tkachuk and Chabot said it's time to add. There are a plethora of pieces available, and likely some extra we don't even know of. We are lacking a top 4 RD and a top 6 F. We also have some anchor contracts that are very fixable if previous moves last few seasons have been any indication(without costing arm and a leg). Also a top 10 pick.

This is such a pivotal off-season on so many levels.

 

[Tuna99]

Most important off-season for the future of the current core.

Tkachuk and Chabot said it's time to add. There are a plethora of pieces available, and likely some extra we don't even know of. We are lacking a top 4 RD and a top 6 F. We also have some anchor contracts that are very fixable if previous moves last few seasons have been any indication(without costing arm and a leg). Also a top 10 pick.

This is such a pivotal off-season on so many levels.

After 5 years of rebuilding the goal of the GM is to play meaningful games, the organization has no goals except to save their jobs and not put any expectations on the coaches and management staff.

the GM and Coach said at the end of the season “well, let’s see next year how it goes and talk to me then”

How scared and unqualified these guys are is underreported - the players are desperate to improve and the GM seemed floored by that.

 

[BankStreetParade]

After 5 years of rebuilding the goal of the GM is to play meaningful games, the organization has no goals except to save their jobs and not put any expectations on the coaches and management staff.

the GM and Coach said at the end of the season “well, let’s see next year how it goes and talk to me then”

How scared and unqualified these guys are is underreported - the players are desperate to improve and the GM seemed floored by that.

It's almost like the NHL is a really competitive league and it's not as simple as saying "hey, why don't we try to win?"

 

[Cosmix]

Flyers did 39 pts from 06-07 to 07-08. Penguins did a 47 pts jump from 2005-06 to 2006-07

Atypical and low probability of happening.

A lot depends on ownership imho. If the Melnyk's continue to own the team, I think Pierre will only get his one big trade financed i.e., a winger.

I'm thinking there won't be an addition to the defense as there's already 8 defenders on the squad (Chabot, Zub, Sanderson, Holden, Hamonic, Brannstrom, Zaitsev, MDZ) without even including JBD & Thomson.

I think Murray will be back for the beginning of the season.

I doubt there will be the buyouts and retaining that some are expecting. Those dead weight contracts are going to be difficult hence costly (asset wise, etc.) to move.

Pierre might want to make more moves, but I don't thinking the money will be there to pay for it. Hope I'm wrong. The wild card of course is a change in ownership (and owners with deeper pockets).

The biggest savings can come from buying out White. Then Murray. Then Del Zotto.

 

[Big Muddy]

The biggest savings can come from buying out White. Then Murray. Then Del Zotto.

Sure I agree. But the question in my mind is "will they". There could be different answers depending on who the owners are. If the team is not sold to new owners, I'm skeptical there's going to be a bunch of buyouts. Would love to be wrong.

 

[Ouroboros]

Sure I agree. But the question in my mind is "will they". There could be different answers depending on who the owners are. If the team is not sold to new owners, I'm skeptical there's going to be a bunch of buyouts. Would love to be wrong.

Why would new ownership be more likely to authorize buyouts? If you're cash conscious and not intending to spend to the cap then there's almost no downside to them.

The Senators can buy out White and MDZ and put 11.25M of cash money back in their pockets with basically no cap implications.

 

[Cosmix]

Sure I agree. But the question in my mind is "will they". There could be different answers depending on who the owners are. If the team is not sold to new owners, I'm skeptical there's going to be a bunch of buyouts. Would love to be wrong.

The buyouts I think they should do are for White and Murray IF those 2 cannot be traded for something of acceptable value.

White because the savings are large and I do not have confidence in him getting better and staying healthy.

Murray because the savings are decent and he is injury prone and therefore likely to get hurt again.

Del Zotto does not matter too much as the savings are small ($750K).

 

[Big Muddy]

Why would new ownership be more likely to authorize buyouts? If you're cash conscious and not intending to spend to the cap then there's almost no downside to them.

The Senators can buy out White and MDZ and put 11.25M of cash money back in their pockets with basically no cap implications.

Ya, White's buyout will save them money if they do it now.

I hope they buy out all of them: Murray, Zaitsev, White & MDZ.

Melnyk didn't seem to like paying players not to play. That's not to say he never did buyouts. If the team remains with the daughters, I have no idea what their philosophy will be and if its similar to their fathers.

Murray is expected to be healthy once again and will show up for training camp based on the little that has been reported. So, that doesn't seem like its headed for a buyout, but stranger things have been known to happen. If Murray gets hurt, they could possibly put him on LTIR.

Zaitsev - no clue. I think there's a little they could save on a buyout, but they seem to like him.

I guess I hoped that with newer owners they'd be more willing to make massive changes. If you buy out players, you still have to replace them. Might be wishful thinking but would hope that new owners replace the bought out players with better players. That could cost some $s.

 

[Cosmix]

Someone in senators upper management

I hope he/she does something about it soon as I would rather have a competent GM in place than give Dorion more time to screw things up.

 

[Ouroboros]

Ya, White's buyout will save them money if they do it now.

I hope they buy out all of them: Murray, Zaitsev, White & MDZ.

Melnyk didn't seem to like paying players not to play. That's not to say he never did buyouts. If the team remains with the daughters, I have no idea what their philosophy will be and if its similar to their fathers.

Murray is expected to be healthy once again and will show up for training camp based on the little that has been reported. So, that doesn't seem like its headed for a buyout, but stranger things have been known to happen.

Zaitsev - no clue.

Buying out Murray would save the Senators a lot of money as well [5M], but it doesn't sound like that's in the cards for whatever reason. Maybe they're concerned about the 2.5M cap penalties in 24-25 and 25-26.

Zaitsev doesn't make any financial sense to buyout. You'd have to pay him 7.33M of the 9M he's owed so even if you replace him with a guy making as little as 900k you're actually spending more money than if you let the status quo remain. Either they package him up with a ton of futures or they'll just have to ride his contract out.

I don't think Melnyk was opposed to buyouts - when you look at the history on Capfriendly you can see that Ottawa did more than their share. More than most teams, in fact. What Melnyk seemed opposed to was retaining salary in trade - they've only done that on two occasions and there are only 3 teams in the league that have fewer retained salary transactions than Ottawa.

I'm fairly certain they're going to do MDZ at the very least. I think they'll re-visit potential trade options on Colin White, but if nothing shakes out there then I think they'll do him as well - it just doesn't make sense not to.

 

[Big Muddy]

Buying out Murray would save the Senators a lot of money as well [5M], but it doesn't sound like that's in the cards for whatever reason. Maybe they're concerned about the 2.5M cap penalties in 24-25 and 25-26.

Zaitsev doesn't make any financial sense to buyout. You'd have to pay him 7.33M of the 9M he's owed so even if you replace him with a guy making as little as 900k you're actually spending more money than if you let the status quo remain. Either they package him up with a ton of futures or they'll just have to ride his contract out.

I don't think Melnyk was opposed to buyouts - when you look at the history on Capfriendly you can see that Ottawa did more than their share. More than most teams, in fact. What Melnyk seemed opposed to was retaining salary in trade - they've only done that on two occasions and there are only 3 teams in the league that have fewer retained salary transactions than Ottawa.

I'm fairly certain they're going to do MDZ at the very least. I think they'll re-visit potential trade options on Colin White, but if nothing shakes out there then I think they'll do him as well - it just doesn't make sense not to.

Replacing a bought out player is I guess what I wonder about, and I added that point to my post. If its Melnyk daughters, they are basically operating on the same budget as before was what I was thinking about. With respect to new owners and what they might do, who knows. I was just hoping they had deeper pockets, would make more massive changes and would spend money to improve. Just hoping I guess.

Ya, I've never really looked at the entire Melnyk history of buyouts (well, until just now). I could only remember Bobby Ryan and Nilsson I guess because they are recent.

 

[Ouroboros]

Replacing a bought out player is I guess what I wonder about, and I added that point to my post. If its Melnyk daughters, they are basically operating on the same budget as before was what I was thinking about. With respect to new owners and what they might do, who knows. I was just hoping they had deeper pockets, would make more massive changes and would spend money to improve. Just hoping I guess.

Ya, I've never really looked at the entire Melnyk history of buyouts (well, until just now). I could only remember Bobby Ryan and Nilsson I guess because they are recent.

I'd imagine that the plan would be to backfill those roster spots with players on ELC's and to redirect the money up the food chain to guys like Norris and Stutzle.

White gets replaced by Pinto/Greig/Kastelic so there's still a net savings for the team.

Murray's roster spot would go to Gustavsson who is already on a one-way contract, so you don't even need to account for a replacement player there. Maybe you peel off a few hundred k to put a vet in Belleville with Sogaard, but outside of that a Murray buyout is pure savings.

Zaitsev is the problematic one. It would actually be cheaper for the Sens to retain 50% of his salary and shop him around at 2.25M. Maybe that opens up a trade market for him. From an on-ice perspective he's the one that most needs to go, so I'd explore any and all options.

 

[Big Muddy]

I'd imagine that the plan would be to backfill those roster spots with players on ELC's and to redirect the money up the food chain to guys like Norris and Stutzle.

White gets replaced by Pinto/Greig/Kastelic so there's still a net savings for the team.

Murray's roster spot would go to Gustavsson who is already on a one-way contract, so you don't even need to account for a replacement player there. Maybe you peel off a few hundred k to put a vet in Belleville with Sogaard, but outside of that a Murray buyout is pure savings.

Zaitsev is the problematic one. It would actually be cheaper for the Sens to retain 50% of his salary and shop him around at 2.25M. Maybe that opens up a trade market for him. From an on-ice perspective he's the one that most needs to go, so I'd explore any and all options.

Based on Dorion's end of the season presser, I wonder if they are confident about Gustavsson? If I recall that interview correctly, Dorion said that he told Gus to go ahead and grab back that backup role.

And Dorion did mention that they could go with 3 goalies on their roster.

Adding all of this up, it leads me to believe that maybe that aren't intent on buying Murray out (a trade would be very difficult, so that's not a good option I'd think). I'm just trying read the tea leaves here and that's the impression I'm getting.

 

[coladin]

I’d package Zaitsev with the 7th overall if they move the whole salary. And get, like, a 5th back or something

 

[PlayOn]

Based on Dorion's end of the season presser, I wonder if they are confident about Gustavsson? If I recall that interview correctly, Dorion said that he told Gus to go ahead and grab back that backup role.

And Dorion did mention that they could go with 3 goalies on their roster.

Adding all of this up, it leads me to believe that maybe that aren't intent on buying Murray out (a trade would be very difficult, so that's not a good option I'd think). I'm just trying read the tea leaves here and that's the impression I'm getting.

Gus is in a weird spot. I think they see Forsberg as the goalie of the present and Sogaard as the goalie of the future, so he’s kind of hanging around in the middle.

And I agree, I don’t think they buy out Murray. With the way he gets injured they won’t be paying him the full 7 mil he’s owed anyway as he’ll probably spend a chunk of the season on LTIR, and having a few goalies available isn’t the worst thing. I think their best bet is to try and trade him next summer at 50% retention, maybe you find a team willing to take a shot at that point. I also think there’s a chance Gus gets traded this summer if we do end up going for a top 6 winger like Fiala. He’s cheap and a decent option for a back-up with room to grow. I hope we hold onto him though.