Management GM Pierre Dorion/Front Office Thread - Part IX [Mod Warning in post 1)

Status
Not open for further replies.

cudi

Mojo So Dope
Feb 2, 2020
8,023
12,055
No human alive makes that deal that has any idea what they are doing. Why does everyone want to trade 7th OA so badly? I took a break from this board and have come back to some of the most insane posts. The team was 30 points out of the playoffs you dont trade top 10 picks when you are that far out.

the seed was planted that they might move the pick and so many jumped on board. Im with you. Im terrified of Dorion attempting to get the right value for the 7th pick, nor are we in a spot where we need a win now move.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bert

BankStreetParade

Registered User
Jan 22, 2013
7,019
4,410
Ottawa
love to see it. Its all about moving forward now and learning from the past.
Love to see what? A tweet and a rainbow coloured logo? We heard stories about Melnyk being homophobic but what exactly does this tweet accomplish that wasn't happening before? Did the LGBTQIA+ community feel excluded because we didn't have a pride logo or is this tweet/pride logo supposed to make them feel better? I'm not trying to be political or combative but this is the thoughts and prayers of inclusion. In my eyes, and I'm guessing in the eyes of that community, this isn't even the baseline of supporting them, especially in a sport where gay athletes are still afraid to out themselves.
 
  • Like
Reactions: OD99

Alf Silfversson

Registered User
Jun 8, 2011
6,051
5,203
Love to see what? A tweet and a rainbow coloured logo? We heard stories about Melnyk being homophobic but what exactly does this tweet accomplish that wasn't happening before? Did the LGBTQIA+ community feel excluded because we didn't have a pride logo or is this tweet/pride logo supposed to make them feel better? I'm not trying to be political or combative but this is the thoughts and prayers of inclusion. In my eyes, and I'm guessing in the eyes of that community, this isn't even the baseline of supporting them, especially in a sport where gay athletes are still afraid to out themselves.

I hear you. Real action is needed but this is an improvement on past messaging.

So basically this is a start, hopefully.
 

AchtzehnBaby

Global Matador
Mar 28, 2013
15,470
9,327
Hazeldean Road
Love to see what? A tweet and a rainbow coloured logo? We heard stories about Melnyk being homophobic but what exactly does this tweet accomplish that wasn't happening before? Did the LGBTQIA+ community feel excluded because we didn't have a pride logo or is this tweet/pride logo supposed to make them feel better? I'm not trying to be political or combative but this is the thoughts and prayers of inclusion. In my eyes, and I'm guessing in the eyes of that community, this isn't even the baseline of supporting them, especially in a sport where gay athletes are still afraid to out themselves.

What story(s) about Melnyk being homophobic?

The NHL is trying to up their game by being inclusive. It’s a good start.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Simplicity

BonHoonLayneCornell

Registered User
Oct 16, 2006
16,742
11,826
Yukon
What story(s) about Melnyk being homophobic?

The NHL is trying to up their game by being inclusive. It’s a good start.
Probably this. Making comments like this and handling it as such doesn't guarantee someone is homophobic, but it will pretty much always be received as such by the LGBTQ community. I would expect to be labeled a homophobe if I did this, but I may not be willing to agree that I am one based on these comments alone.


“Are you the one responsible for this f***ing gay campaign? Have you lost your f***ing mind? You need to take that shit down immediately.”

It was a Friday evening, Feb. 8, 2019, when a team executive received the phone call, Melnyk’s nasal screaming reverberating on the other line.

Melnyk was incensed at a marketing campaign with the slogan “Love is Love” that included still images of same-sex couples embracing and kissing that had been used to promote an upcoming Senators game for the NHL’s “Hockey is for Everyone” night. The campaign was designed to celebrate diversity and inclusion and to connect with members of the Ottawa community previously left out of the organization’s outreach efforts.

Melnyk sneered at the images and derided the campaign: “We are the laughing stock of the NHL right now!”

Melnyk’s rant continued, lumping in previous marketing efforts involving pet rescue missions: “They think we are so desperate that we have to advertise to gays now. Dogs and gays.”

The Athletic reviewed contemporaneous notes taken by the executive to memorialize the exchange. Another employee involved with the campaign, who spoke to the executive soon after the call from Melnyk, corroborated the executive’s retelling.

Melnyk, in an email exchange that has been reviewed by The Athletic, protested that he had not sanctioned the campaign and threatened “serious consequences,” asking why it was necessary to use “sexually implicit pictures” to promote inclusiveness.

Despite Melnyk’s tirade, the campaign was not pulled. However, multiple employees said they witnessed Melnyk rail on the executive in the months that followed — expressing regret for not firing the person at the time and reiterating his disgust at the content.

“I paid the price for that campaign,” the executive said.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dionysus and OD99

AchtzehnBaby

Global Matador
Mar 28, 2013
15,470
9,327
Hazeldean Road
Probably this. Making comments like this and handling it as such doesn't guarantee someone is homophobic, but it will pretty much always be received as such by the LGBTQ community. I would expect to be labeled a homophobe if I did this, but I may not be willing to agree that I am one based on these comments alone.


“Are you the one responsible for this f***ing gay campaign? Have you lost your f***ing mind? You need to take that shit down immediately.”

It was a Friday evening, Feb. 8, 2019, when a team executive received the phone call, Melnyk’s nasal screaming reverberating on the other line.

Melnyk was incensed at a marketing campaign with the slogan “Love is Love” that included still images of same-sex couples embracing and kissing that had been used to promote an upcoming Senators game for the NHL’s “Hockey is for Everyone” night. The campaign was designed to celebrate diversity and inclusion and to connect with members of the Ottawa community previously left out of the organization’s outreach efforts.

Melnyk sneered at the images and derided the campaign: “We are the laughing stock of the NHL right now!”

Melnyk’s rant continued, lumping in previous marketing efforts involving pet rescue missions: “They think we are so desperate that we have to advertise to gays now. Dogs and gays.”

The Athletic reviewed contemporaneous notes taken by the executive to memorialize the exchange. Another employee involved with the campaign, who spoke to the executive soon after the call from Melnyk, corroborated the executive’s retelling.

Melnyk, in an email exchange that has been reviewed by The Athletic, protested that he had not sanctioned the campaign and threatened “serious consequences,” asking why it was necessary to use “sexually implicit pictures” to promote inclusiveness.

Despite Melnyk’s tirade, the campaign was not pulled. However, multiple employees said they witnessed Melnyk rail on the executive in the months that followed — expressing regret for not firing the person at the time and reiterating his disgust at the content.

“I paid the price for that campaign,” the executive said.

Sorry, I meant what are the other ones? You said stories.
 

Cosmix

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Jul 24, 2011
19,119
7,149
Ottawa
Re; Murray

Ya, who knows. We will find out eventually what happens with Murray.

Curious though. You mentioned Pierre made those comments as a PR move. What does he gain by saying that? The only thing I can think of is because behind the scenes he is trying to trade Murray.

But NHL GMs and their pro scouts will have their own intelligence and thoughts on that subject.

Things happen for a reason as they say, so I am trying to figure why he said that and what he has to gain by saying it. In terms of parallel situations, Pierre didn't have any problems talking about the situation when he sent Murray down to the AHL.
DORION, not Murray, is sometimes forced by reporters to answer specific questions and rather than saying he wants to trade or buyout a player (the truth) he will say the opposite of what he would like to do (lie and say they are looking forward to him getting healthy and playing next season).
 
Last edited:

Cosmix

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Jul 24, 2011
19,119
7,149
Ottawa
the seed was planted that they might move the pick and so many jumped on board. Im with you. Im terrified of Dorion attempting to get the right value for the 7th pick, nor are we in a spot where we need a win now move.
However, Dorion is in "win now" mode because he has failed to make the playoffs for quite a few years now after promising the "promised land" in the past.

I want to keep the 7 OA pick and future first round picks to build for the future and help refill the roster as it ages. There is little point in trading "futures" at this time to make marginal gains now. Stay the course so this team becomes a SC contender in 3 or 4 years from now.
 

cudi

Mojo So Dope
Feb 2, 2020
8,023
12,055
However, Dorion is in "win now" mode because he has failed to make the playoffs for quite a few years now after promising the "promised land" in the past.

I want to keep the 7 OA pick and future first round picks to build for the future and help refill the roster as it ages. There is little point in trading "futures" at this time to make marginal gains now. Stay the course so this team becomes a SC contender in 3 or 4 years from now.

yea thats the issue. Dorion is in ass saving mode.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Berri UQAM

Big Muddy

Registered User
Dec 15, 2019
8,964
4,329
Murray is sometimes forced by reporters to answer specific questions and rather than saying he wants to trade or buyout a player (the truth) he will say the opposite of what he would like to do (lie and say they are looking forward to him getting healthy and playing next season).
OK, well I suppose it's possible. Anything is possible as they say. Whether it's "likely" is something that I am struggling with I guess. We will just to wait and see what unfolds.
 

Cosmix

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Jul 24, 2011
19,119
7,149
Ottawa
OK, well I suppose it's possible. Anything is possible as they say. Whether it's "likely" is something that I am struggling with I guess. We will just to wait and see what unfolds.

Murray will cost the team $15M to keep. The team could save $5M by buying him out while paying him $10M. The buyout is expensive.
 

Big Muddy

Registered User
Dec 15, 2019
8,964
4,329
Murray will cost the team $15M to keep. The team could save $5M by buying him out while paying him $10M. The buyout is expensive.
Yes, I've been to CapFriendly to look at the numbers before.

As we have seen, teams need three decent, NHL goaltenders in their system. And, I'm not sure if they have doubts or not about Gustavsson being ready at this time. But, we do have Dorion's comments precisely on this subject.

Again, I'd love to save Murray's money and utilize it elsewhere. But the team needs to be confident that the Forsberg & Gustavsson tandem can get the job done. A GM who's afraid of losing his job if the team doesn't do well this year might think of this. I guess they could try to trade Murray and try to save some money as well. I'm just not sure there's much of a market. Dorion would need to work the numbers and see what can be saved assuming a trade is possible.

BTW, I never liked the Murray trade. The contract they gave him didn't seem commensurate with the risk they were undertaking, especially the term part.
 
Last edited:

coladin

Registered User
Sep 18, 2009
11,965
4,714
No human alive makes that deal that has any idea what they are doing. Why does everyone want to trade 7th OA so badly? I took a break from this board and have come back to some of the most insane posts. The team was 30 points out of the playoffs you dont trade top 10 picks when you are that far out.


The leafs traded the 13th OA pick before the season started when they thought they were a contender. To be cap compliant.... The sens have 20 million in cap space. They are not a contender and this is the 7th OA pick. Good grief.
Bert, you can say I am insane with my takes. I am can live with that. But if you think that the Sens have 20 million in cap space...then you are as equally insane. You know that cap limit is irrelevant.

And lookie here, Quebec City is back in the news again. This team has no money.

the seed was planted that they might move the pick and so many jumped on board. Im with you. Im terrified of Dorion attempting to get the right value for the 7th pick, nor are we in a spot where we need a win now move.
I think, if you read and hear what Tkachuk and Chabot have said on their way out then you will know that there is a sense of urgency to win now. Maybe not playoffs, but win at the very least and enough with a losing record
 

BankStreetParade

Registered User
Jan 22, 2013
7,019
4,410
Ottawa
What story(s) about Melnyk being homophobic?

The NHL is trying to up their game by being inclusive. It’s a good start.
Melnyk’s rant continued, lumping in previous marketing efforts involving pet rescue missions: “They think we are so desperate that we have to advertise to gays now. Dogs and gays.”
You wouldn't pick out a group, specifically, to disparage and say you'd have to be desperate to get their money if you didn't hold certain views. Also, you think making a pride logo is a good start to inclusivity? I'm sorry but that's a giant pile of horseshit. It takes nearly no effort or care to put pride colours on a logo. And it takes nearly no effort or care to send out a tweet with a generic support message. It's not even remotely the least you could do.

There are gay NHLers in the league, today. How about championing those people and creating an environment that made them feel safe and welcome in their own organizations and comfortable enough to be out publicly? That would be a good start. This is a league mired in controversies ranging from racism to sexual assault. Putting your logo in Canva and changing some colours doesn't mean shit.
 

bert

Registered User
Nov 11, 2002
37,576
23,895
Visit site
Bert, you can say I am insane with my takes. I am can live with that. But if you think that the Sens have 20 million in cap space...then you are as equally insane. You know that cap limit is irrelevant.

And lookie here, Quebec City is back in the news again. This team has no money.


I think, if you read and hear what Tkachuk and Chabot have said on their way out then you will know that there is a sense of urgency to win now. Maybe not playoffs, but win at the very least and enough with a losing record
Ok so why wouldnt they be trading the pick for a player to make them get better if you are worried about Chabot and Tkachuk. It doesnt take 7th overall to dump a guy making 4.4 for 2 more years. There are so many other avenues and ways to dump those players. Top 7 picks have alot of value. If you go on cap friendly you will see that every good team is pressed against he cap. Then go look at the list of UFA forwards. It is a buyers market

The team has 20 million in cap space thats the concrete thing we do know. We dont know if there is an internal cap and if they do no one knows what it is so why are you going off a hypothetical?

If the team has no money why havent they sold yet? There are buyers here ready to go. There is absolutely no chance they move to Quebec. 0 maybe to another market that is more viable than Ottawa but they arent moving to a city that is half the size of Ottawa with way less corporate.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Masked

Cosmix

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Jul 24, 2011
19,119
7,149
Ottawa
Yes, I've been to CapFriendly to look at the numbers before.

As we have seen, teams need three decent, NHL goaltenders in their system. And, I'm not sure if they have doubts or not about Gustavsson being ready at this time. But, we do have Dorion's comments precisely on this subject.

Again, I'd love to save Murray's money and utilize it elsewhere. But the team needs to be confident that the Forsberg & Gustavsson tandem can get the job done. A GM who's afraid of losing his job if the team doesn't do well this year might think of this. I guess they could try to trade Murray and try to save some money as well. I'm just not sure there's much of a market. Dorion would need to work the numbers and see what can be saved assuming a trade is possible.

BTW, I never liked the Murray trade. The contract they gave him didn't seem commensurate with the risk they were undertaking, especially the term part.

Given the salary owed in the next two years and Murray's injuries, I doubt that there is any team in the NHL interested in taking him in a trade unless significant salary is retained and/or significant hockey assets are included with him (draft picks & prospects).

LTIR with insurance coverage might be the least cost approach.

Bert, you can say I am insane with my takes. I am can live with that. But if you think that the Sens have 20 million in cap space...then you are as equally insane. You know that cap limit is irrelevant.

And lookie here, Quebec City is back in the news again. This team has no money.


I think, if you read and hear what Tkachuk and Chabot have said on their way out then you will know that there is a sense of urgency to win now. Maybe not playoffs, but win at the very least and enough with a losing record

Quebec City did not have the capital necessary to obtain a franchise a few years ago, backing out when the cash payments were required. I suspect southern Ontario could support a franchise. There are other major cities in the USA in the east that probably could too.
 
Last edited:

JD1

Registered User
Sep 12, 2005
16,300
9,937
Yes, I've been to CapFriendly to look at the numbers before.

As we have seen, teams need three decent, NHL goaltenders in their system. And, I'm not sure if they have doubts or not about Gustavsson being ready at this time. But, we do have Dorion's comments precisely on this subject.

Again, I'd love to save Murray's money and utilize it elsewhere. But the team needs to be confident that the Forsberg & Gustavsson tandem can get the job done. A GM who's afraid of losing his job if the team doesn't do well this year might think of this. I guess they could try to trade Murray and try to save some money as well. I'm just not sure there's much of a market. Dorion would need to work the numbers and see what can be saved assuming a trade is possible.

BTW, I never liked the Murray trade. The contract they gave him didn't seem commensurate with the risk they were undertaking, especially the term part.
The team's in a precarious position with Murray. This past season he was so so. Too many injuries. Takes time to find his groove. Finds it. Plays well. Very well. Gets injured. Rinse and repeat.

But here's the problem. You said a team needs 3 NHL goalies. Gus had a bad season. PD says he told him you were out best the year prior, figure out how to get back there. If they buyout Murray and Forsberg gets hurt, we're f***ed. I'm not worried about Forsber's play, but a 1/2 season injury and Murray bought out, all we have left are not ready for prime time AHL goalies. One bad groin pull and we're done.

Had Gus followed up 20-21 with a good season, imo the team has more options. But he didn't. And I think the team's hands are a little tied here. Even if they wanted to buy Murray out, they can't. Not without getting another NHL calibre player. Gus's poor 21-22 season is pretty concerning
 

JD1

Registered User
Sep 12, 2005
16,300
9,937
Ok so why wouldnt they be trading the pick for a player to make them get better if you are worried about Chabot and Tkachuk. It doesnt take 7th overall to dump a guy making 4.4 for 2 more years. There are so many other avenues and ways to dump those players. Top 7 picks have alot of value. If you go on cap friendly you will see that every good team is pressed against he cap. Then go look at the list of UFA forwards. It is a buyers market

The team has 20 million in cap space thats the concrete thing we do know. We dont know if there is an internal cap and if they do no one knows what it is so why are you going off a hypothetical?

If the team has no money why havent they sold yet? There are buyers here ready to go. There is absolutely no chance they move to Quebec. 0 maybe to another market that is more viable than Ottawa but they arent moving to a city that is half the size of Ottawa with way less corporate.
I certainly wouldn't move 7oa to dump Zaitsev's contract but I'd certainly consider moving it. Lots of teams against that cap as you mentioned. It's a valuable piece. If we can land premium value for it, I'd move it.

Then again, I think we're closer than most on the board.

Given the salary owed in the next two years and Murray's injuries, I doubt that there is any team in the NHL interested in taking him in a trade unless significant salary is retained and/or significant hockey assets are included with him (draft picks & prospects).

LTIR with insurance coverage might be the least cost approach.



Quebec City did not have the capital necessary to obtain a franchise a few years ago, backing out when the cash payments were required. I suspect southern Ontario could support a franchise. There are other major cities in the USA in the east that probably could too.
The NHL is looking to grow its revenue pie.

Moving Ottawa to Quebec city doesn't do that. Moving it to one of potentially several in the US does.

I don't think we're going anywhere, but if we do, it certainly isn't Quebec city.
 

coladin

Registered User
Sep 18, 2009
11,965
4,714
Ok so why wouldnt they be trading the pick for a player to make them get better if you are worried about Chabot and Tkachuk. It doesnt take 7th overall to dump a guy making 4.4 for 2 more years. There are so many other avenues and ways to dump those players. Top 7 picks have alot of value. If you go on cap friendly you will see that every good team is pressed against he cap. Then go look at the list of UFA forwards. It is a buyers market

The team has 20 million in cap space thats the concrete thing we do know. We dont know if there is an internal cap and if they do no one knows what it is so why are you going off a hypothetical?

If the team has no money why havent they sold yet? There are buyers here ready to go. There is absolutely no chance they move to Quebec. 0 maybe to another market that is more viable than Ottawa but they arent moving to a city that is half the size of Ottawa with way less corporate.

Like I said, yeah, probably an overreaction to move the 7th for Zaitsev's entire contract...but I guess a 2nd would be fine because you know and i know, this team will not spend to the cap. We cannot seriously contemplate that.

I find it disturbing that, and if you believe the reports from today, that it was Bettman's suggestion to do the 5 games in QC. The only reason you would think a commissioner would suggest that is due to the very low revenues coming out of Ottawa. So, when I have no money, maybe I should clarify that they have no money in the context of trying to win. They don't, or they won't and that is why they have to get creative to remove guys like Zaitsev, and they must buyout White.

I am not worried about moving to QC, but am annoyed by the story
 

BonHoonLayneCornell

Registered User
Oct 16, 2006
16,742
11,826
Yukon
I don't think buyout is the ideal route with Murray, but him being the security against injury scenarios doesn't add much comfort imo, and there's an argument that it's too much of a distraction and momentum killer for the team we'd be better off without.

It's a risk either way. Are we more confident Gus can be a capable backup or are we more confident Murray will actually be in the lineup and play well consistently? I am much more confident in the former and would prefer to take our lumps if we can move on from Murray in a more beneficial way than buyout. Who really thinks Murray's going to play up to anywhere near his pay at this point, so aren't guys like that fairly available mid year if needed?

By keeping all 3 we're just giving ourselves two lottery tickets instead of one. We may have no choice. Unfortunately one of them is at a cost of 7.5 mil the next two years and the odds are against it working out well.

Reality is if we could give him and his salary away we would, but when it's something that we will have to take our lumps on to solve it and won't just have him off the payroll, it makes it complicated.

I'd think anyone talking about giving up the 7th to get rid of Zaitsev would be more interested in using it to be rid of Murray. I wouldn't advocate for that, but Murray is obviously a bigger issue.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Cosmix
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad