Management GM Pierre Dorion/Front Office Thread - Part IX [Mod Warning in post 1)

[DueDiligence]

Losing Zub would be a disaster. Only top 4 RD on this team and I'm skeptical that Thomson or JBD will be ever be one.

Pay the man. If he wants 5M+ give it to him. Can't lose him now that we're trying to contend.

A disaster??? A setback yes but let's not pretend he's Cale Makar.

 

[Hale The Villain]

A disaster??? A setback yes but let's not pretend he's Cale Makar.

Losing a top 4 RD for nothing is a disaster, especially when our biggest need is a top 4 RD right now.

 

[DueDiligence]

Losing a top 4 RD for nothing is a disaster, especially when our biggest need is a top 4 RD right now.

So losing a guy like Makar, Matthews or McDavid would be "super-disasters" in your eyes???

 

[Hale The Villain]

So losing a guy like Makar, Matthews or McDavid would be "super-disasters" in your eyes???

Sure.

 

[Micklebot]

So losing a guy like Makar, Matthews or McDavid would be "super-disasters" in your eyes???

Yes? Not sure what kind of response you're after here but if any of those guys leave their teams to test UFA that would be devistating. The only real saving grace is it would open up a lot of caproom. That doesn't mean you can't see losing Zub as a disaster, even if it's not as bad as the worst possible scenario.

 

[Ice-Tray]

It would be praiseworthy if giving the coaches a lot of influence on player acquisition worked out well, but that hasn't really been the case.

I do see where you’re coming from, but in all fairness to Dorion, he was using this input when looking for high character guys in the bargain bin, while not focusing on high skill.

The more we’re looking to compete, the less we seem to be looking for hidden attributes in the bargain bin.

It’s no surprise that this would be the summer where we brining in an AGM with experience in pro scouting given the change in direction in play acquisitions we’ve seen.

 

[Bevans]

So losing a guy like Makar, Matthews or McDavid would be "super-disasters" in your eyes???

I don't understand, is "disaster" the strongest noun you know?

Couldn't those things be calamities, catastrophes, Armageddons, or doomsdays?

Are are we only allowed disaster, super disaster, double plus disaster?

 

[Micklebot]

I don't understand, is "disaster" the strongest noun you know?

Couldn't those things be calamities, catastrophes, Armageddons, or doomsdays?

Are are we only allowed disaster, super disaster, double plus disaster?

To be fair, regardless of which adjective you use, we're probably being a bit hyperbolic applying it to losing Zub.

If we have 5 mil x 5 years in the budget for Zub (honestti think that's a touch high for him) and he opts to test UFA, we can use that same money for someone else. Will he be as good, maybe not but it's not Zub or hope JBD or Thomson can fill in adequately and if they can fold the team and start a new rebuild.

 

[Bevans]

To be fair, regardless of which adjective you use, we're probably being a bit hyperbolic applying it to losing Zub.

If we have 5 mil x 5 years in the budget for Zub (honestti think that's a touch high for him) and he opts to test UFA, we can use that same money for someone else. Will he be as good, maybe not but it's not Zub or hope JBD or Thomson can fill in adequately and if they can fold the team and start a new rebuild.

So you're saying it'll be a bruhaha. Got it.

 

[Micklebot]

So you're saying it'll be a bruhaha. Got it.

Is that better or worse than a setback?

Anyways, losing him for nothing would be bad, trading him and replacing him via trade or UFA, less so. He's good, but not irreplaceable. I want him re-signed but we'll survive if it can't get done.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Almost certainly. Even Toronto was able to get rid of Zaitsev's long-term deal.

But I think Zub will prove to be worth the money because what makes him such a good D is his hockey IQ and poise, which isn't going to go away as he gets more experience.

I'll be shocked if his contract turns in to negative value. And even then, like you say, you can still move him. Hell, someone took most of Matt Murray's contract this summer and that pretty much proves anything is possible.

 

[playasRus]

To be fair, regardless of which adjective you use, we're probably being a bit hyperbolic applying it to losing Zub.

If we have 5 mil x 5 years in the budget for Zub (honestti think that's a touch high for him) and he opts to test UFA, we can use that same money for someone else. Will he be as good, maybe not but it's not Zub or hope JBD or Thomson can fill in adequately and if they can fold the team and start a new rebuild.

I'd probably be OK maxing out to 6M x 5 years to keep Zub. It would indeed be disastrous if we lost him.

Why signing Artem Zub should be a major priority for the Senators this summer

In this column, we'll try and answer some questions around Zub's situation and discuss why the Senators must keep him in the fold.

theathletic.com

If the part about seeing how the team competes and offseason moves is correct, I'm hoping we hit the ground 100 mph and Zub resigns knowing we'll have other options in the summer

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Losing Zub would be a disaster. Only top 4 RD on this team and I'm skeptical that Thomson or JBD will be ever be one.

Pay the man. If he wants 5M+ give it to him. Can't lose him now that we're trying to contend.

If he no like he no like.

This is why we need to go after a big fish on defence. Zub may leave

 

[bert]

A disaster??? A setback yes but let's not pretend he's Cale Makar.

It would be a disaster I think... He is the only matchup stay at home D man and decent right shot defender in the organization. He carried a pair last year, if anything they need another one.

Is that better or worse than a setback?

Anyways, losing him for nothing would be bad, trading him and replacing him via trade or UFA, less so. He's good, but not irreplaceable. I want him re-signed but we'll survive if it can't get done.

There was only one D man in the entire UFA class that plays a similar game and the sens are unable to find a similar level player right now. I dont think he is as replaceable as you make it seem.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

There was only one D man in the entire UFA class that plays a similar game and the sens are unable to find a similar level player right now. I dont think he is as replaceable as you make it seem.

Seems like we spent Karlsson's entire tenure trying to find another one unsuccessfully, but that may have been more to do with the budget.

 

[Micklebot]

There was only one D man in the entire UFA class that plays a similar game and the sens are unable to find a similar level player right now. I dont think he is as replaceable as you make it seem.

We don't seem to be after a similar player, most of the guys we showed interest in are more offensive oriented guys

 

[Ice-Tray]

5@5 for Zub is painful for a defensive dman….

 

[Hale The Villain]

We lose Zub next off-season and this is our RD depth:

Thomson
JBD
Zaitsev

We need to keep him more than we need a top 6 forward. Would overpay to get him signed, even if it means trading a forward.

 

[bert]

We don't seem to be after a similar player, most of the guys we showed interest in are more offensive oriented guys

That's because there weren't any not because of the style of play. After Manson who was available that was a ufa or trade market this summer? That can play a legit top 4 shut down role? They're just trying to get someone who can play in the top 4.

 

[UglyPuckling]

I do see where you’re coming from, but in all fairness to Dorion, he was using this input when looking for high character guys in the bargain bin, while not focusing on high skill.

The more we’re looking to compete, the less we seem to be looking for hidden attributes in the bargain bin.

It’s no surprise that this would be the summer where we brining in an AGM with experience in pro scouting given the change in direction in play acquisitions we’ve seen.

I think folks are always going to wonder though whether vet & character guys and players with some skill are mutually exclusive, or whether you can have both traits in the same player.

Where it gets murky is knowing whether every single player with that combination of traits were available. Certainly the first year of COVID where the season didn't start until January there was a glut of unsigned players that signed short (i.e., 1 year) & modest ($1 to 1.5 m) contracts. So, there were players with that combination at the last moment so speak back then. With regards to availability (which players would come to Ottawa), no one knows for sure which it opens it up to spin and narratives.

And hard to say what the plan was all along (years ago) when it comes to hiring an experienced exec with pro player development experience. All we can say is it didn't happen while EM was alive and did happen after EM passed away.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Boys Kevin Francis just released some goodies

 

[DueDiligence]

I don't understand, is "disaster" the strongest noun you know?

Couldn't those things be calamities, catastrophes, Armageddons, or doomsdays?

Are are we only allowed disaster, super disaster, double plus disaster?

Well here you go!

dis·as·ter
/dəˈzastər/

noun
a sudden event, such as an accident or a natural catastrophe, that causes great damage or loss of life

Losing Zub is not that!

 

[DueDiligence]

Yes? Not sure what kind of response you're after here but if any of those guys leave their teams to test UFA that would be devistating. The only real saving grace is it would open up a lot of caproom. That doesn't mean you can't see losing Zub as a disaster, even if it's not as bad as the worst possible scenario.

My point, as you seem to understand in your later posts, is that it would hurt to lose Zub but he's not the cornerstone of a cup winning team. He's a good player, nothing more. If the Sens lose him they can certainly overcome it.

 

[UglyPuckling]

Seems like we spent Karlsson's entire tenure trying to find another one unsuccessfully, but that may have been more to do with the budget.

One of Toronto's weakness for years after they got their fab 4 was on defense. It took a few years to get Muzzin, but he is a LD. Then it took a few years more to get Giordano at RD. Add that all up and it took the Leafs a lot of years to address their RD issue.

If we are let's say (just an example) $500 - 600 k away on price, or haggling on an additional year of term, or both, just sign the man. I don't think we want to find out how hard it will be to find two (2) RDs.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

There’s also the alternative that zub doesn’t want to play here