Management GM Pierre Dorion/Front Office Thread - Part IX [Mod Warning in post 1)

[Sweatred]

I certainly hope we'll be a playoff team by 2023/24. If we were to have DeBrincat unsigned on his QO at that point we'd probably just keep him for the rest of the year, which would mean giving up the 7th and more to rent him for a couple seasons. Not great.

If he's not willing to sign by next summer we absolutely should trade him. Hope Dorion learned his lesson from the Duchene and Stone debacles.

Yes, I agree … I think we can recoup most of the value, or at least a late 1St and 2ND type prospect … good chance we get even more.

In terms of control and value it’s a loss but it’s been 5 years and we need a boost more than the delta on 2022 7OA and a future 2024 1RD pick (if we trade TheCat).

Feels like the girls are going to Invest in the season and see what type of response they get from the city before deciding their mid term future.

 

[Ice-Tray]

And just think, it will give us something to worry about for the next year, since those things seems to be in shorter supply these days!

 

[DaveMatthew]

Lot of people in this thread acting like DeBrincat came with an extension.

This is a risky move, but one that could be a major win if DeBrincat can get locked-up long-term on a reasonable contract.

Until that happens I don't know how you can call this a very good trade. The outcome is entirely dependent on an event that hasn't happened yet.

Not really.

Even if DeBrincat doesn't want to extend, you can recoup most of what you traded at the deadline in 23/24, or next summer. No, you won't get a top 10 pick, but you'll easily get a 1st + quality prospect. Is moving down ~10-20 spots in the 1st round worth having a shot at the playoffs, energizing the young core, making the team more attractive to UFAs/RFAs, and selling more tickets?

Absolutely.

And let's not forgot that this draft was largely viewed as a crapshoot due to it being the COVID class, so anyone taken at 7 would be no sure thing. Korchinski, Kasper, Savoie... these guys would probably be drafted in the 15-20 range in a strong year.

Frankly, I'm surprised Chicago was so adamant about getting 1sts for this year. They would have been much better off getting picks for 2023 and 2024, draft classes that are already viewed as being quite a bit better.

 

[atmx093]

The organization shouldn't prioritize extending Debrincat now. Let him settle in first and try him out for a season. If by end of season he hasn't gelled with his line and his production dips terribly, then it may be best to not extend him and look at trade options.

Honestly, though, I hope they put him on the Stutzle line. Stutzle reminds me of Kane in so many ways that I can't see how these two wouldn't click almost right away. And seeing something like this happen may change the Sens image slightly so that other players may actually be enticed to move over.

 

[Cosmix]

The organization shouldn't prioritize extending Debrincat now. Let him settle in first and try him out for a season. If by end of season he hasn't gelled with his line and his production dips terribly, then it may be best to not extend him and look at trade options.

Honestly, though, I hope they put him on the Stutzle line. Stutzle reminds me of Kane in so many ways that I can't see how these two wouldn't click almost right away. And seeing something like this happen may change the Sens image slightly so that other players may actually be enticed to move over.

Adding a player like Kane to play with Stutzle and Debrincat would be a big boost to the team offence and help increase O-Zone time plus reduce D-Zone time.

Adding a top 4 D would also be a big boost as it would push Holden and Hamonic down to 3rd pair where they belong. Brannstrom & Zaitsev could be 7 & 8 D but too expensive with Zaitsev there.

 

[Cosmix]

Not really.

Even if DeBrincat doesn't want to extend, you can recoup most of what you traded at the deadline in 23/24, or next summer. No, you won't get a top 10 pick, but you'll easily get a 1st + quality prospect. Is moving down ~10-20 spots in the 1st round worth having a shot at the playoffs, energizing the young core, making the team more attractive to UFAs/RFAs, and selling more tickets?

Absolutely.

And let's not forgot that this draft was largely viewed as a crapshoot due to it being the COVID class, so anyone taken at 7 would be no sure thing. Korchinski, Kasper, Savoie... these guys would probably be drafted in the 15-20 range in a strong year.

Frankly, I'm surprised Chicago was so adamant about getting 1sts for this year. They would have been much better off getting picks for 2023 and 2024, draft classes that are already viewed as being quite a bit better.

I hope you are right but I cannot shake that "deja vu" feeling.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Not really.

Even if DeBrincat doesn't want to extend, you can recoup most of what you traded at the deadline in 23/24, or next summer. No, you won't get a top 10 pick, but you'll easily get a 1st + quality prospect. Is moving down ~10-20 spots in the 1st round worth having a shot at the playoffs, energizing the young core, making the team more attractive to UFAs/RFAs, and selling more tickets?

Absolutely.

And let's not forgot that this draft was largely viewed as a crapshoot due to it being the COVID class, so anyone taken at 7 would be no sure thing. Korchinski, Kasper, Savoie... these guys would probably be drafted in the 15-20 range in a strong year.

Frankly, I'm surprised Chicago was so adamant about getting 1sts for this year. They would have been much better off getting picks for 2023 and 2024, draft classes that are already viewed as being quite a bit better.

You make some good points. I think it's worth the gamble, but I do worry about the possibility of renting DeBrincat for two years. It's easy to say we could just trade him at the 2023/24 deadline or next summer, but if we manage to make the playoffs next season does Dorion have the stones to downgrade the roster by making the hard decision to trade DeBrincat? Could easily see a situation where we end up renting DeBrincat for 2 years in hopes of having a longshot run, and end up with nothing after two seasons.

Korchinski and Savoie are in the same tier as guys like Sillinger and Guenther last year IMO. Only in a stacked draft like 2020 could they go in the 15-20 range.

 

[pzeeman]

Does FYOUS begin now?

 

[ksens]

Not really.

Even if DeBrincat doesn't want to extend, you can recoup most of what you traded at the deadline in 23/24, or next summer. No, you won't get a top 10 pick, but you'll easily get a 1st + quality prospect. Is moving down ~10-20 spots in the 1st round worth having a shot at the playoffs, energizing the young core, making the team more attractive to UFAs/RFAs, and selling more tickets?

Absolutely.

And let's not forgot that this draft was largely viewed as a crapshoot due to it being the COVID class, so anyone taken at 7 would be no sure thing. Korchinski, Kasper, Savoie... these guys would probably be drafted in the 15-20 range in a strong year.

Frankly, I'm surprised Chicago was so adamant about getting 1sts for this year. They would have been much better off getting picks for 2023 and 2024, draft classes that are already viewed as being quite a bit better.

The Athletic had a piece saying something along the lines of - statistically, two years of DeBrincat is worth fewer wins than a 7th overall through until they are a UFA ... on average.

But you are right, that doesn't take into account marketing, selling tickets, keeping our other young players happy and making Ottawa generally a more attractive place to play. It also doesn't take into account what you could get for him at the TDL in two years coming back.

You take into account those intangibles and this signing is a win even if he plays out his contract takes a qualifying offer and then becomes a free agent. Barring something unforeseen (like injuries or his play falling off a cliff - neither of which is reasonably foreseeable) and this trade is a big win no matter what. This was a great move by Dorion and very questionable by Chicago.

 

[milkbag]

f*** that.

Well earned victory against the Dorion trolls.

Crazy how some people use "troll" as a word synonymous with "someone who disagrees with me". Very fragile

Dorion did great here though, very happy to see him pull a rabbit out of his hat like that.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Does FYOUS begin now?

A top 4 D of Marino's calibre and Giroux and it absolutely does. Heck, perhaps just the top 4 D if all goes well next year.

 

[Ice-Tray]

If he wants to stay, we’ll extend him. We have signed all the other young guys to term, no reason to think this young RFA will be an issue, or that we didn’t consider the cost before making the trade.

 

[Micklebot]

The Athletic had a piece saying something along the lines of - statistically, two years of DeBrincat is worth fewer wins than a 7th overall through until they are a UFA ... on average.

I don't see that as a fair comparison, we aren't going to play Debrincat two years then let him walk off as a UFA, we'll recoup some value if he refuses to sign. He'll at worst be a highly desirable rental at the deadline. We got 19 OA and Duclair for Duchene, Brannstrom and Sokolov (2nd Rd) for Stone.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

 

[Alex The Loyal]

Probably the first time I've ever seen a photo of Senators Upper Managment and not being filled with intense disgust and loathing. Nice of Pierre to do something right for a change, and the daughters being A LOT better instantly than you know who

 

[BankStreetParade]

It's 1 trade. 1 very good trade actually.
What vindication?

We are all fans of the team and want what's best. Some disagree on some moves some don't.

Hilarious to see some clamor to declare some sort of victory here...and odd.

Sure, it's 1 trade.
After getting Joseph for Paul, after expanding the front office and continuing to search for more execs, after securing a site for the downtown arena, after working on shedding the dead weight contracts the fanbase wanted gone (White - check, Murray and Zaitsev - coming up), after locking up significant RFAs last summer and continuing that work this summer with the next crop.

It's ok to admit you guys were wrong about something. He's not a great GM but he wasn't as bad as everyone said and that's been the point this whole time.

 

[Sweatred]

Sure, it's 1 trade.
After getting Joseph for Paul, after expanding the front office and continuing to search for more execs, after securing a site for the downtown arena, after working on shedding the dead weight contracts the fanbase wanted gone (White - check, Murray and Zaitsev - coming up), after locking up significant RFAs last summer and continuing that work this summer with the next crop.

It's ok to admit you guys were wrong about something. He's not a great GM but he wasn't as bad as everyone said and that's been the point this whole time.

I don’t think we’re ready to let go of losing Balcers and it’s still difficult for many to unstand why we paid to acquire Hamonic.

I’m hopeful that after we acquire another D the Hamonic acquisition will make sense.

I think we will just have to accept that complaining about Balcers may have to carry on for a while.

 

[GCK]

Sure, it's 1 trade.
After getting Joseph for Paul, after expanding the front office and continuing to search for more execs, after securing a site for the downtown arena, after working on shedding the dead weight contracts the fanbase wanted gone (White - check, Murray and Zaitsev - coming up), after locking up significant RFAs last summer and continuing that work this summer with the next crop.

It's ok to admit you guys were wrong about something. He's not a great GM but he wasn't as bad as everyone said and that's been the point this whole time.

His track record shows he was in the Bennington/McCrimmon class (bottom). Everything has been fairly good since the Brady signing. People grow into their jobs sometimes and maybe he has improved but it doesn’t erase the horrible move after horrible move he made.

 

[GoMyTeam]

The owners are barely older than the players being drafted, thats got to be a 1st for the NHL

 

[Big Muddy]

Sure, it's 1 trade.
After getting Joseph for Paul, after expanding the front office and continuing to search for more execs, after securing a site for the downtown arena, after working on shedding the dead weight contracts the fanbase wanted gone (White - check, Murray and Zaitsev - coming up), after locking up significant RFAs last summer and continuing that work this summer with the next crop.

It's ok to admit you guys were wrong about something. He's not a great GM but he wasn't as bad as everyone said and that's been the point this whole time.

The bolded bits have nothing to do with Dorion. I'll give credit to Anna & Olivia and/or the 3 member board for that. The biggest difference makers will come from the very top of the organization (above Dorion) which is more typical than surprising, and a bunch of things you mentioned (like signing RFAs) aren't big accomplishments.

As for the Debrincat trade, using an over-simplistic summary, call it a good trade that will be excellent if he resigns.

The Balcers and Hamonic are irrelevant red herrings of course other than the fact that Vancouver didn't have any offers for Hamonic and we overpaid. He's a decent enough stop gap though given the state of our blueline at the time.

 

[HSF]

Sure, it's 1 trade.
After getting Joseph for Paul, after expanding the front office and continuing to search for more execs, after securing a site for the downtown arena, after working on shedding the dead weight contracts the fanbase wanted gone (White - check, Murray and Zaitsev - coming up), after locking up significant RFAs last summer and continuing that work this summer with the next crop.

It's ok to admit you guys were wrong about something. He's not a great GM but he wasn't as bad as everyone said and that's been the point this whole time.

We haven’t expanded the front office yet

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

I think it's possible to have a foot in both camps here. Yes, Dorion made a great trade that should set us up to be competitive for the near future. But, like... we weren't competitive under his reign so far, and a few unforced errors played into that.

Life's not binary. It doesn't have to be one or the other. He was a GM who, coming into the draft, had a bad track record. He's now pulled off a heist and deserves some credit for it. This move might shape the future, but it sure doesn't erase what he's done so far.

And on that note, I have to wonder why a tweet commending the Melnyks is being posted in this thread. Feels a little off-topic for the Dorion thread.

 

[2CHAINZ]

f*** that.

Well earned victory against the Dorion trolls.

The Dorion haters admitted it was a great job done by Pierre and a great step in the right direction, would be nice to see the Dorion Defenders admit when he does something bad though.

 

[Big Muddy]

I don't see that as a fair comparison, we aren't going to play Debrincat two years then let him walk off as a UFA, we'll recoup some value if he refuses to sign. He'll at worst be a highly desirable rental at the deadline. We got 19 OA and Duclair for Duchene, Brannstrom and Sokolov (2nd Rd) for Stone.

The stat might have been referring to the time period before the player in question reaches free agency (UFA). It wasn't clear the way it was worded (imho).

 

[Micklebot]

f*** that.

Well earned victory against the Dorion trolls.

Kind of divisive calling people who have a different opinion than yours trolls. Everybody wants the team to succeed, when they see the team do something they think is counter to that goal, the criticize it, when they see something they feel is positive, they applaud it.

Very few posters if any criticize Dorion to try and provoke others, they just don't like what he's done. You on the other hand seem to be aiming this post as an attack at posters that disagreed with your takes. Who is being the troll in that scenario?