What big time free agents have the Raptors signed?? Nobody. And for the last 9 years they have had a President that everyone in the NBA admires. And for the last 4 years a top 3 coach.
Management GM Pierre Dorion/Front Office Thread - Part IX [Mod Warning in post 1)
- Thread starter AchtzehnBaby
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Senator Stanley
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Masai doesn't talk shit about his own market. He talks it up and has helped changed the perception of Toronto around the league. It's yet another part of leading a franchise that Dorion can't seem to handle.
I admire Ujiri but he has a lot more to work with. Toronto is a huge market in North America and the Raptors have deep pockets; two things Ottawa doesn't have.
The Raptors also have challenges Ottawa doesn’t have being the only non-American team in a league where nearly 80% of players are American.
They haven’t hit on a big UFA so far, but you’d be a wrong to ignore the impact of guys like DeRozan and Fred Van Vleet extending.
Masai has been huge in adding legitimacy to the franchise. It’s not just FA that matters either, Masai has been key in building the fanbase, making the raptors top 10 in merchandise sales (winning a championship is key, but so is the creative move of partnering with Drake). Of course he has more budget and support than Dorion, but Masai is legit and it’s not right to try to downplay him to fluff Dorion. Masai top 3 executive in his league.
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Emerica
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- May 29, 2010
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Yeah, organizational excellence starts at the top and trickles its way down. Not a coincidence we've been where we've been as a franchise for the better part of a decade now. Losers make excuses and other get creative and make things happen with what they have to work with.
So you mean Brady and Norris and Chabot etc…
The championship added legitimacy. If they hadn’t won and lost Kwai and DeRozen, things would not have been so rosy.
Razors edge between hero and heel as usual.
He does great things internationally for the game though.
Personally I like that it’s coming out into the open now. We’ve heard it from Methot online, and now from the GM.
There was no woe is me, that’s just added sentiment from folks that enjoy piling on Dorion.
He shared a fact from his perspective, and then talked about how they plan to proceed in spite of that. It was a fine interview, some
folks simply hate the man for some reason, no matter what he says.
I’m ambivalent towards him really, but I love this young team he’s assembling, and I dislike the venom spewed in here in general. I find it unbecoming as a personality trait. Folks should try harder to be kind, save the shit spew for the toilet and flush.
We have become nasty internet people.
Brady, Chabot, Norris are all different. Ottawa has signed RFA’s in the past (again, signing an RFA is the bare minimum, it’s not a sign of success). There are 7 canadian teams, lots of players sign in Canada.
Signing a guy from one of Basketball’s Mecca’s in LA to an extension when Toronto had previously had difficulty doing so is different.
Razor’s edge between hero and heel, sure that’s literally how sports business works. Again, I’m not sure you understand the business of sports. Winning makes almost everything better.
Masai won. Even without the chip. Look at his record, he’s been in Toronto 9 seasons.
8 of those seasons are in spots 1-8 in terms of wins in franchise history. Only once, in almost a decade, did he not beat the previous franchise high for wins. It’s a joke to try to discredit him.
I think your being emotional. No that’s not the best all end all of sports business, which is why teams that haven’t won in decades are still fully functioning franchises. Think more hearts and minds and you’ll be on the right path.
I’m not trying to discredit him, I’m just not giving him all the credit for putting TO on the map. They were in the map before him, but he’s been great for their international profile especially. He hasn’t moved the needle for Star UFA American players signing with the raps though. I don’t blame him for that though. The raps are like the Sens in the NHL in that regard.
You are being deliberately ontuse to support your point here, which is a bit insulting. Brady wasn’t just any RFA re-signing, you know better than that. It was a statement on the future of this core in general. It was a huge signing for the team and for every other RFA after him. It was a statement to the fans and league that we are legit building something here.
DeRozen signing wasn’t what you’re making it to be at all, he’s a hometown guy who fell in love with the city, and was playing with his best friend. It has parallels to Brady and Norris to be honest, more so than trying to liken it to a legit NBA star from LA signing here, which we also watched not happen.
Anyways, you guys will continue to break your necks to talk shit about your team while working over time to glorify others. Nothing new to see here.
coladin
Registered User
- Sep 18, 2009
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The funny part about your last paragraph is that it shows just how illogical your argument is. I’m a huge Raps fan, almost as much as the Sens. I’m also a huge Bucs fan, as much as the Sens. I don’t spend any time complaining about those teams GM’s even when I disagree with their moves, in fact, I spend a lot of time saying « in Licht/Masai I trust ». I’m literally in this thread praising the GM of one of my favourite teams. Trust me, I’d be much happier with a good GM in Ottawa, saying in « X » I trust.
You seem to think I’m glorifying Masai. Not at all, I’m giving him his due, just like I do with Licht.
Do a good job - gain respect and benefit of the doubt.
Do a poor job - lose respect and benefit of the doubt.
It’s a straightforward formula that many people apply in their lives. We’re 6 years into Dorion’s tenure. Even considering the rebuild, too many of his moves are flops which hinder the team pulling up and gaining altitude. He doesn’t deserve the benefit of the doubt anymore. I’m not emotional, I’m tired of the same excuses.
Deliberately obtuse? What did I say that wasn’t true? DeRozan was completely different than Brady.
DeRozan was a UFA when he extended. He grew up in Compton idolizing Kobe and dreaming of the Lakers. Nearly 80% of NBA players are American. The Raps the only team outside America. That means only 15/~450 NBA players play outside America. Less than 1%. I don’t think it’s a coincidence Toronto has such a signficant portion of non-American players (Siakam, Anunoby, Achiuwa, Boucher, Banton, Birch, Mykhailiyuk, Koloko, Watanabe, Bonga).
This week Chris Broussard (a seasoned NBA talking head) went on national television to say African Americans know « Toronto is different, it’s not America and you feel it » suggesting Americans still don’t want to sign here. It was a ridiculous take, but no NHL team in Canada has to face that kind of BS.
Brady was an RFA when he extended. Ottawa had many years of control left. Brady grew up in St Louis, cheering for their team, but his mom is Canadian, and he’s a dual citizen. 7/32 teams in the NHL are Canadian. That means a max of ~162/~736 (22%) of players will necessarily play in Canada. Not to mention a ton of players come from Canada. There’s way less stigma about Canada being different than the US in the NHL than the NBA. It’s a completely different dynamic. It means more around the league for an UFA American to extend with the raptors than for an RFA American to extend with the sens.
The fact you’re trying to downplay the performance of an executive who led the Raptors to their eight winningest seasons in nine years of tenure is hilarious.
Sports illustrated gave him credit for turning the raptors into a first class organisation: Masai Ujiri Re-Signs with the Toronto Raptors | Sports Illustrated Toronto Raptors News, Analysis and More
The NBA’s most plugged in insider and ESPN analyst Adrian Woknarowski credits him with making the team a « contender and a global franchise »:
Sources: Ujiri agrees to new deal with Raptors
Masai Ujiri, who has established himself as one of the most prominent, successful and sought-after executives in professional sports, has agreed to a significant new deal to become vice chairman and president of the Raptors, sources told ESPN.
It matters when ESPN and SI throw flowers at your Team and GM.
Meanwhile, NBC has Dorion on hot seat lists:
NHL Power Rankings: Ranking the NHL general managers
Pro Hockey Talk reviews the 31 general managers around the league and assesses who has done the best job at building their roster.
nhl.nbcsports.com
NHL Power Rankings: General manager ranking tiers
In this week’s edition of the NHL Power Rankings we take a look at the league’s 32 general managers and rank them into their appropriate tiers.
nhl.nbcsports.com
While ESPN has us third last in power rankings :
NHL Power Rankings, way-too-early edition: The first look at 2022-23
The Cup champs lead the way. Here's how our voters see every team prior to the draft and free agency.
Does that mean we’ll end up last? Of course not, but it’s not just fans on HFboards thinking Dorion isn’t good at his job as some like to portray it.
Still not sure how I was downplaying your guy here, my point was that despite his contributions he still isn’t able to really move the needle on big UFA signings.The funny part about your last paragraph is that it shows just how illogical your argument is. I’m a huge Raps fan, almost as much as the Sens. I’m also a huge Bucs fan, as much as the Sens. I don’t spend any time complaining about those teams GM’s even when I disagree with their moves, in fact, I spend a lot of time saying « in Licht/Masai I trust ». I’m literally in this thread praising the GM of one of my favourite teams. Trust me, I’d be much happier with a good GM in Ottawa, saying in « X » I trust.
You seem to think I’m glorifying Masai. Not at all, I’m giving him his due, just like I do with Licht.
Do a good job - gain respect and benefit of the doubt.
Do a poor job - lose respect and benefit of the doubt.
It’s a straightforward formula that many people apply in their lives. We’re 6 years into Dorion’s tenure. Even considering the rebuild, too many of his moves are flops which hinder the team pulling up and gaining altitude. He doesn’t deserve the benefit of the doubt anymore. I’m not emotional, I’m tired of the same excuses.
Deliberately obtuse? What did I say that wasn’t true? DeRozan was completely different than Brady.
DeRozan was a UFA when he extended. He grew up in Compton idolizing Kobe and dreaming of the Lakers. Nearly 80% of NBA players are American. The Raps the only team outside America. That means only 15/~450 NBA players play outside America. Less than 1%. I don’t think it’s a coincidence Toronto has such a signficant portion of non-American players (Siakam, Anunoby, Achiuwa, Boucher, Banton, Birch, Mykhailiyuk, Koloko, Watanabe, Bonga).
This week Chris Broussard (a seasoned NBA talking head) went on national television to say African Americans know « Toronto is different, it’s not America and you feel it » suggesting Americans still don’t want to sign here. It was a ridiculous take, but no NHL team in Canada has to face that kind of BS.
Brady was an RFA when he extended. Ottawa had many years of control left. Brady grew up in St Louis, cheering for their team, but his mom is Canadian, and he’s a dual citizen. 7/32 teams in the NHL are Canadian. That means a max of ~162/~736 (22%) of players will necessarily play in Canada. Not to mention a ton of players come from Canada. There’s way less stigma about Canada being different than the US in the NHL than the NBA. It’s a completely different dynamic. It means more around the league for an UFA American to extend with the raptors than for an RFA American to extend with the sens.
The fact you’re trying to downplay the performance of an executive who led the Raptors to their eight winningest seasons in nine years of tenure is hilarious.
Sports illustrated gave him credit for turning the raptors into a first class organisation: Masai Ujiri Re-Signs with the Toronto Raptors | Sports Illustrated Toronto Raptors News, Analysis and More
The NBA’s most plugged in insider and ESPN analyst Adrian Woknarowski credits him with making the team a « contender and a global franchise »:
Sources: Ujiri agrees to new deal with Raptors
Masai Ujiri, who has established himself as one of the most prominent, successful and sought-after executives in professional sports, has agreed to a significant new deal to become vice chairman and president of the Raptors, sources told ESPN.www.espn.com
It matters when ESPN and SI throw flowers at your Team and GM.
Meanwhile, NBC has Dorion on hot seat lists:
NHL Power Rankings: Ranking the NHL general managers
Pro Hockey Talk reviews the 31 general managers around the league and assesses who has done the best job at building their roster.nhl.nbcsports.com
NHL Power Rankings: General manager ranking tiers
In this week’s edition of the NHL Power Rankings we take a look at the league’s 32 general managers and rank them into their appropriate tiers.nhl.nbcsports.com
While ESPN has us third last in power rankings :
NHL Power Rankings, way-too-early edition: The first look at 2022-23
The Cup champs lead the way. Here's how our voters see every team prior to the draft and free agency.
Does that mean we’ll end up last? Of course not, but it’s not just fans on HFboards thinking Dorion isn’t good at his job as some like to portray it.
….and yes, you’re downplaying the importance of Brady’s 7 year extension, especially when mentioning the importance of DeRozen in the same breath.
I appreciate the effort you put into this post, but in the end what’s clear to me is that you enjoy and respect the management of the Raps, and don’t feel the same about the Sens.
It’s understandable, even defendable, but it also colours your opinions beyond what is reasonable, and I don’t think you’re able to see it.
Go Sens, Go Raps.
AchtzehnBaby
Global Matador
AchtzehnBaby
Global Matador
Wally and Methot talked about it too. Everyone knows this destination is very low on the list.
That was a good interview. I appreciated his comments about the state of the franchise and where we are at. I think the most negative perception of where we are at is right here on HF Sens. Fans of other teams, media, hockey analysts all seem to comment more positively on what's been assembled here than the consensus opinion in here.
Looking forward to today to see how things play out
Tuna99
Registered User
- Sep 26, 2009
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There was a time Hossa, Alfie, Chara (3 x HOFers) and all the All Stars (Redden, Phillips, Lalime, Havlat) all wanted to play in Ottawa for their careers.
Sens Vader
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- Jan 23, 2016
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NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
Ottawa is a nice town. The traffic isn't too bad, it's got the benefits of a city with the convenience of nature very close by. Once they actually get here, it doesn't seem to be too hard to keep them here.
Ottawa also used to be one of the class organizations in the league under Mlakar, Johnston, Murray and Co.
Rebuilding that reputation will take a long time but it's absolutely necessary.
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Tuna99
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- Sep 26, 2009
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Agree just not with the Murray part, Hestley, Soezza, Alfie all leaving and that was under his watch. It’s when the organization changed from a player first the GM first organization (owner interference obviously) and the comment by Brady and Chabot this summer lead me to believe this group of players wants to return it to a player lead team.
Also Muckler deserves props for assembling the best teams Ottawa has ever seen
NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
I think Murray had some skill in keeping Melnyk at arms length.
Muckler was a well-respected guy in the hockey world, I didn't omit him on purpose.
Senator Stanley
Registered User
There was only so much any executive could do with Melnyk owning the team. Most of the dark clouds came from ownership. But with that situation seemingly improving, now is absolutely the time to project positivity. No more of this "nobody wants to come here" messaging coming from the organization.
2CHAINZ
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- Feb 27, 2008
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Pierre Dorion is the greatest GM to ever GM in any sport ever. We are so blessed to have this amazing person steering the ship of the Ottawa Senators. Every night I go to sleep thanking the heavens for blessing us with Pierre.
Thank you Pierre from the bottom of my heart.
I speak for all Senators fans when I say Pierre you are the greatest GM ever, thank you.
Thank you Pierre from the bottom of my heart.
I speak for all Senators fans when I say Pierre you are the greatest GM ever, thank you.
I don't know how Dorion still has a job.
He didn't need to trade for Murray. He didn't need to use a 2nd round pick to do so. He didn't need to sign Murray to a massive extension before he'd even played a game for the team. It was clear at the time of the trade that there was a huge risk that Murray was washed up. These are all own-goals by Dorion.
And then throwing away a 7th overall pick to compensate for your own awful unforced errors? That should be a fireable offence. Especially when they're not even in a cap crunch that would force their hand - they could buy him out or bury him in the minors for the rest of his deal without running into cap issues. The fact that he's this desperate means it's a budget issue. This just looks similar to the Zibanejad/Brassard situation, but even worse because it's caused directly by Dorion's earlier incompetence in trading for and signing Murray.
The trade having leaked has also made Dorion's desperation to offload Murray for budget reasons fairly clear, and has tanked whatever marginal trade value Murray might have had. So much for his summer mantra of "We're happy going into next season with 3 goalies".
The only other explanation is that the Sens are targeting someone at 7 who they think will still be there in the late teens, so now I'm worried he's going to go way off the board again this year.
And even worse than flipping the picks, why flip the picks AND retain salary? The cap dump should be enough! If you're willing to retain, why not buy him out?
e: Apparently he still has a job because of what he actually ended up doing today. DeBrincat for that low return is a steal.
He didn't need to trade for Murray. He didn't need to use a 2nd round pick to do so. He didn't need to sign Murray to a massive extension before he'd even played a game for the team. It was clear at the time of the trade that there was a huge risk that Murray was washed up. These are all own-goals by Dorion.
And then throwing away a 7th overall pick to compensate for your own awful unforced errors? That should be a fireable offence. Especially when they're not even in a cap crunch that would force their hand - they could buy him out or bury him in the minors for the rest of his deal without running into cap issues. The fact that he's this desperate means it's a budget issue. This just looks similar to the Zibanejad/Brassard situation, but even worse because it's caused directly by Dorion's earlier incompetence in trading for and signing Murray.
The trade having leaked has also made Dorion's desperation to offload Murray for budget reasons fairly clear, and has tanked whatever marginal trade value Murray might have had. So much for his summer mantra of "We're happy going into next season with 3 goalies".
The only other explanation is that the Sens are targeting someone at 7 who they think will still be there in the late teens, so now I'm worried he's going to go way off the board again this year.
And even worse than flipping the picks, why flip the picks AND retain salary? The cap dump should be enough! If you're willing to retain, why not buy him out?
e: Apparently he still has a job because of what he actually ended up doing today. DeBrincat for that low return is a steal.
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