Management GM Pierre Dorion/Front Office Thread - Part IX [Mod Warning in post 1)

[Agent Zuuuub]

I am no fan, but be a tad faire.

The son of a longtime NHL man. If you look at th NFL as an example; sons of, have succeeded tremendously.

In both the NBA and NFL, the term son of a coach or son of an exec is like a royal title.

He also worked in scouting himself. And worked in the background for the Sens for 5-6 years.

So while I would hardly label him as the second coming of Sam Pollack or Frank Selke (I am hoping you know who they are!!), he is not someone who tripped into that position.

Contrary to myth, you do not trip into positions and stay. I tripped into my last job..and tumbled right out of it.

he didn't trip into gm. just no one else wanted to be Melnyk's yes man and accept a low wage.

he did trip into getting into the NHL though. i think his dad was the head scout of the maple leafs. arguably the most prestigeous and connected scouting position in the league.

he got the backdoor into the league and after that we all know how much of an old boys club the NHL has been.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

he didn't trip into gm. just no one else wanted to be Melnyk's yes man and accept a low wage.

he did trip into getting into the NHL though. i think his dad was the head scout of the maple leafs. arguably the most prestigeous and connected scouting position in the league.

he got the backdoor into the league and after that we all know how much of an old boys club the NHL has been.

This whole fallacy of being a "melnyk yes man" is utter bovine skidaddle.

 

[Beech]

he didn't trip into it. just no one else wanted to be Melnyk's yes man and accept a low wage.

yea... that has a role. But do you honestly think that the 10-20 guy who were GMS in 2012-2016 and could not get back in, would not have worked for even less than Pierre?

30 jobs at the time. Being in is everything.

10-20 ex GMS floating around
30-60 AGMs floating around (presently employed or out)

If you are an NHL owner, or President, or POHO.. You are getting a phone call a week, 52 weeks a year from someone's agent looking for a GM's position, or some hockey exec position.

I keep thinking back to when trouble occurred here in 2017/2018.. and rumour surfaced about the league forcing Eugene to hire a POHO.. Suddenly Terry Murray is in town and doing radio shows!!! We had never seen him before, or heard from him, suddenly he is everywhere for 3 days.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

This whole fallacy of being a "melnyk yes man" is utter bovine skidaddle.

don't you remember those town hall meetings where Melnyk and Dorion were lying through their teeth about the rebuild to try and sell season tickets?

 

[Golden_Jet]

don't you remember those town hall meetings where Melnyk and Dorion were lying through their teeth about the rebuild to try and sell season tickets?

Depends if you’re gullible

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Depends if you’re gullible

yea it was obviously BS. they were lying and Dorion sold whatever pride he had to to lie for Melnyk.

could you imagine Alfredsson or someone else with character selling themselves out like that for someone like Melnyk? Dorion got the job because he was willing to do that.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

He may have made a deal with the devil, but at least we didn't end up with Randy Lee. Iirc, there was no talk of an outside candidate at the time, or ever during Melnyk's tenure, and Lee's name was the only other one out there, so I'd say we dodged a bullet considering how his career ended.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

don't you remember those town hall meetings where Melnyk and Dorion were lying through their teeth about the rebuild to try and sell season tickets?

No because it was a rebuild... and then covid hit

Give me a f***ing break. FYOUS

They are spending over the cap now.

 

[Beech]

No because it was a rebuild... and then covid hit

Give me a f***ing break. FYOUS

They are spending over the cap now.

what would life be like if:
Marcus Hogberg had developed
Andreas Englund had developed
Collin white had developed
Gabriel Gagne had developed
Logan Brown had developed

no rebuild, no teardown, a Stanley cup being carried by Mark Stone (Karlsson was itching to leave anyway and would have left at some point.)

Granted, No Tkachuk, Stuzzle, etc.

faith can forge strange paths. Dorion would now be the Godfather of GMs'. Don Vito Dorion(i)

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

No because it was a rebuild... and then covid hit

Give me a f***ing break. FYOUS

They are spending over the cap now.

Lol. They handled it all like a live grenade and made it way harder on themselves than it needed to be. It was comical at times and obviously why they went completely dark with media spots because they couldn't handle them without skewering themselves.

How many pro sports teams have undergone rebuilds and not faced the wrath they did?

It was a reflection of their poor PR handling of it and an already severed relationship from Melnyk's antics like ruining the outdoor game with threats of moving the team.

Thankfully, the team is on the right track and spending to the cap now, but who knows what would have transpired if Melnyk were alive today.

what would life be like if:
Marcus Hogberg had developed
Andreas Englund had developed
Collin white had developed
Gabriel Gagne had developed
Logan Brown had developed

no rebuild, no teardown, a Stanley cup being carried by Mark Stone (Karlsson was itching to leave anyway and would have left at some point.)

Granted, No Tkachuk, Stuzzle, etc.

faith can forge strange paths. Dorion would now be the Godfather of GMs'. Don Vito Dorion(i)

First I've heard that one...

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Well, PD has done it again…. Another sweetheart long term deal (for the Sens) by signing Sanderson


Does anyone think PD is being shown the door anytime before December this year?

 

[KingAlfie11]

One thing is for sure is that when this young talented team wins the cup, I will be the first to point out that a big part of the credit should go to Dorion who is the one who build this team. Like it or not he is the architect of this team and no fans can ever take that away from him. Will he get fired yes like all GM's do at one point.

 

[KingAlfie11]

Well, PD has done it again…. Another sweetheart long term deal (for the Sens) by signing Sanderson


Does anyone think PD is being shown the door anytime before December this year?

I'm willing to be that DJ will get fired before Pierre

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

One thing is for sure is that when this young talented team wins the cup, I will be the first to point out that a big part of the credit should go to Dorion who is the one who build this team. Like it or not he is the architect of this team and no fans can ever take that away from him. Will he get fired yes like all GM's do at one point.

Yup. Lots of praise to the master architect.

Still amazed by all the hate.

For what?:

"He just lucked out. This team could have been in the playoffs 2 years ago"
"We are a team"
Traded "Stone, Turris, Karlsson!"
"He buried local nice guy Wally"
"Doesn't talk well in public"
"He's Melnyk's YES man"

When will it end?

 

[NyQuil]

One thing is for sure is that when this young talented team wins the cup, I will be the first to point out that a big part of the credit should go to Dorion who is the one who build this team. Like it or not he is the architect of this team and no fans can ever take that away from him. Will he get fired yes like all GM's do at one point.

I'd like to see his young talented team make the playoffs for the first time in 7 years.

When you're the Ottawa Senators, you don't have the luxury of a huge operating budget, burying contracts, throwing money around at coaches and staff and buying cap space.

We have such a narrow wedge in which to perform that every misstep can be costly. Dorion has to walk a very narrow tightrope and while it's certainly not fair, he has made his share of mistakes and they have been costly.

He's not the worst GM in the world, but he has one of the hardest jobs in the NHL IMO, and I don't think he's good enough to overcome the odds and win the big prize.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I think it's fair to say he's improved as the years have gone on and especially with Melnyk out of the picture. It's not reasonable to make it seem like it was a smooth journey, but I will always commend him for being willing to take it on the chin and move on from his mistakes, even if it's costly.

Melnyk was obviously the bigger problem for the franchise and I'm sure Dorion appreciates getting this last couple years to operate without the shackles.

 

[Hale The Villain]

I think it's fair to say he's improved as the years have gone on and especially with Melnyk out of the picture. It's not reasonable to make it seem like it was a smooth journey, but I will always commend him for being willing to take it on the chin and move on from his mistakes, even if it's costly.

Melnyk was obviously the bigger problem for the franchise and I'm sure Dorion appreciates getting this last couple years to operate without the shackles.

I would love to see you show your work.

Having looked at the moves he made the last two off-seasons without the "shackles", I don't know how one can come to that conclusion.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I would love to see you show your work.

Having looked at the moves he made the last two off-seasons without the "shackles", I don't know how one can come to that conclusion.

Well I still think it's a mixed bag don't get me wrong, but this summer I think the good far outweighs the bad. Would look a lot better without the dead cap, but I like the depth chart currently.

I don't buy into all these long term deals being the work of a genius like some portray, but I do like the strategy and it's what I'd be trying to do as well.

Last summer I was mostly on board with too, but obviously in hindsight the DeBrincat move wasn't great, we needed better depth, and we would have been better off paying a higher cost for Chychrun considering the state of the defense. It was a missed opportunity, but I doubt much damage would have been done anyways.

It's certainly much better than the bottom of the barrel roster spot fodder we got through the rebuild or the first big splashes in Murray and Dadonov. He also bought himself out of his bad White deal and figured out ways out of some other bad ones.

 

[Beech]

I would love to see you show your work.

Having looked at the moves he made the last two off-seasons without the "shackles", I don't know how one can come to that conclusion.

2022 signs Giroux +1
2022 signs Stuzzle +1
2022 Trades to get Debrincat -1 for the trade
2022 Debrincat -1 as a player
2022 signs Cam Talbot -1
2022 fires Pierre McGuire +1
2023 fires minor league coach, fires (or he resigned) AGM 0
2023 trades for Chec. -1 for the trade
2023 Chec. +1
2023 trades the CAT +1
2023 haul in return +1
2023 sign Tarasenko +1
2023 signs Korpo 0 (way too early to tell)
2023 appears to be fumbling Pinto -1
2023 appears to be fumbling CAP -1
2023 signs Jake Sanderson +1

net score : +2

passing grade

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

2022 signs Giroux +1
2022 signs Stuzzle +1
2022 Trades to get Debrincat -1 for the trade
2022 Debrincat -1 as a player
2022 signs Cam Talbot -1
2022 fires Pierre McGuire +1
2023 fires minor league coach, fires (or he resigned) AGM 0
2023 trades for Chec. -1 for the trade
2023 Chec. +1
2023 trades the CAT +1
2023 haul in return +1
2023 sign Tarasenko +1
2023 signs Korpo 0 (way too early to tell)
2023 appears to be fumbling Pinto -1
2023 appears to be fumbling CAP -1
2023 signs Jake Sanderson +1

net score : +2

passing grade

Could easily change a couple of those very subjective marks to land him at 0.
The draft and develop tandum imo -1
Firing McGuire is not a +; Mcquire could have been useful. Dorion's pettiness in this regard could be a -

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

2022 signs Giroux +1
2022 signs Stuzzle +1
2022 Trades to get Debrincat -1 for the trade
2022 Debrincat -1 as a player
2022 signs Cam Talbot -1
2022 fires Pierre McGuire +1
2023 fires minor league coach, fires (or he resigned) AGM 0
2023 trades for Chec. -1 for the trade
2023 Chec. +1
2023 trades the CAT +1
2023 haul in return +1
2023 sign Tarasenko +1
2023 signs Korpo 0 (way too early to tell)
2023 appears to be fumbling Pinto -1
2023 appears to be fumbling CAP -1
2023 signs Jake Sanderson +1

net score : +2

passing grade

Get rid of the ASSUMPTIONS

re: pinto and cap.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Could easily change a couple of those very subjective marks to land him at 0.
The draft and develop tandum imo -1
Firing McGuire is not a +; Mcquire could have been useful. Dorion's pettiness in this regard could be a -

Pure opinion and no facts

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

2022 signs Giroux +1
2022 signs Stuzzle +1
2022 Trades to get Debrincat -1 for the trade
2022 Debrincat -1 as a player
2022 signs Cam Talbot -1
2022 fires Pierre McGuire +1
2023 fires minor league coach, fires (or he resigned) AGM 0
2023 trades for Chec. -1 for the trade
2023 Chec. +1
2023 trades the CAT +1
2023 haul in return +1
2023 sign Tarasenko +1
2023 signs Korpo 0 (way too early to tell)
2023 appears to be fumbling Pinto -1
2023 appears to be fumbling CAP -1
2023 signs Jake Sanderson +1

net score : +2

passing grade

Way too subjective.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Pure opinion and no facts

The whole op is arguably opinion. My opinion, his opinion, your opinion ...
We share opinions much more than we share facts.

 

[Beech]

Could easily change a couple of those very subjective marks to land him at 0.
The draft and develop tandum imo -1
Firing McGuire is not a +; Mcquire could have been useful. Dorion's pettiness in this regard could be a -

yes.. that is the beauty of this..

It is subjective and opinion based..

ergo this site.

I would be curious what your table would look like and what your score? Imagine Andlauer as he has to do something similar

Way too subjective.

it is life.

what do you think Managers and owners do on a regular bases.

What do you think teachers do? evaluators? Judges, juries.

we teh voters.

Imagine Andlauer.. he has to do this.. he may not sit and create a table in solid fashion, but he must analyze the moves as I DID AND COME TO A CONCLUSION. sorry about teh caps.