Management GM Pierre Dorion/Front Office Thread - Part IX [Mod Warning in post 1)

[Senscore]

"Dorion hates him"

"Here is at Dorion's son's bar mitzvah"

"Dorion must really hate his son then."

 

[NyQuil]

Clearly the board is in control but likely still in contact with new ownership.



It's hard to imagine that the board and Andlauer are at cross-purposes.

Dorion is pitching to both of them.

 

[HSF]

makes sense to have Stois come in and evaluate things then clear house

 

[BondraTime]

I don't think Andlauer would care if Dorion fired anyone, he'll be cleaning house very shorty after getting in.

Any recommendation from Dorion to get rid of someone is likely ok'd by Andlauer without hesitation. Which is likely what happened here.

 

[Knave]

It gives Staios more time to get to know the team.

Dorion is acting as if he's still in a position to try to save his job, don't you think?

You think Andlauer has taken him aside and said "It doesn't matter what you do, you're gone anyway." Dorion claims to have been in contact with Andlauer frequently.

Or Dorion currently auditioning for his next job with all of his current moves?

I think it's a case of when Dorion was talking about Davidson and the DeBrincat trade.

Some people have Dorion's style, others play their cards close to the vest and don't open up. What Andlauer hasn't told him might be more important than the two of them talking.

"Can I talk to DeBrincat?" "No". "Can we talk about my future?" "No." It's another learning lesson for Dorion at the expense of this team.

 

[Hale The Villain]

It gives Staios more time to get to know the team.

Dorion is acting as if he's still in a position to try to save his job, don't you think?

You think Andlauer has taken him aside and said "It doesn't matter what you do, you're gone anyway." Dorion claims to have been in contact with Andlauer frequently.

Or Dorion currently auditioning for his next job with all of his current moves?

I suspect the moves Dorion made last off-season, particularly acquiring DeBrincat without discussing an extension first, was done in part to try to save his job by making the playoffs last year.

At this point I assume that Dorion knows he's a lame duck but is still doing his job and trying to help the team reach the post-season next year.

I don't think he's ever going to get another GM position in this league, but if the team makes it to the post-season next season he can try to claim his tenure was a success and maybe parlay that into a management role with another franchise.

 

[NyQuil]

I don't think Andlauer would care if Dorion fired anyone, he'll be cleaning house very shorty after getting in.

I'm wondering about a hypothetical scenario where the team gets off to a hot start.

Or do you expect this to happen before October?

Well, first it'll be a President of Hockey Operations. It might actually take awhile for Dorion to get fired.

I'm sure it's happened before, but it would be funny if the team was doing unspeakably well and the GM gets fired.

I guess DJ is more likely to be retained if the team does well than the GM.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Ya Dorian says if he needs to talk to Andlauer, he goes through the board , and a 3 way conversation is set up.

 

[redbrick98]

Ya Dorian says if he needs to talk to Andlauer, he goes through the board , and a 3 way conversation is set up.

Like he doesn't have Andlauers # .... lol

 

[BondraTime]

I'm wondering about a hypothetical scenario where the team gets off to a hot start.

Or do you expect this to happen before October?

Well, first it'll be a President of Hockey Operations. It might actually take awhile for Dorion to get fired.

Oh I think the Sens could go 50-25-7 and he'd still be let go.

I think there is a very real possibility he's gone as soon as Andlauer is given the keys. At the absolute latest the end of the regular season, and undoubtedly if they get off to a less than great start.

 

[NyQuil]

Oh I think the Sens could go 50-25-7 and he'd still be let go.

I think there is a very real possibility he's gone as soon as Andlauer is given the keys. At the absolute latest the end of the regular season, and undoubtedly if they get off to a less than great start.

Yeah, I think you're right.

It's not like Andlauer isn't a hockey guy.

He knows all kinds of hockey management types out there (including Steve Staios) that he probably knows better and trusts more than Pierre Dorion.

Not to mention, this most recent ADB gamble that leaves egg on his face.

Meanwhile, if DJ gets the team off to another rotten start, what a waste.

 

[BondraTime]

Yeah, I think you're right.

It's not like Andlauer isn't a hockey guy.

He knows all kinds of hockey management types out there (including Steve Staios) that he probably knows and trusts more than Pierre Dorion.

He'll find himself on his feet very quickly, will find a role with another team within a year I w3ould imagine, Dorion has forgotten more about hockey than most of us know.

It's not very often a GM gets to stay through an ECF, the valley of watching team crater, and then a long, long rebuild. Usually, they are relieved immediately/soon after the crater.

Dorion has been around, along time. His time has come, and it's an absolute needed change for the team.

 

[NyQuil]

He'll find himself on his feet very quickly, will find a role with another team within a year I w3ould imagine, Dorion has forgotten more about hockey than most of us know.

It's not very often a GM gets to stay through an ECF, the valley of watching team crater, and then a long, long rebuild. Usually, they are relieved immediately/soon after the crater.

Dorion has been around, along time. His time has come, and it's an absolute needed change for the team.

I've always felt that he's better suited to being an AGM.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Not a lot of turnover in the position in Ottawa. Basically none under Melnyk beyond promotions. Pretty exciting to potentially get our first external hire since Bryden owned the team.

 

[swiftwin]

I'm wondering about a hypothetical scenario where the team gets off to a hot start.

Or do you expect this to happen before October?

Well, first it'll be a President of Hockey Operations. It might actually take awhile for Dorion to get fired.

I'm sure it's happened before, but it would be funny if the team was doing unspeakably well and the GM gets fired.

I guess DJ is more likely to be retained if the team does well than the GM.

I mean, Muckler got fired after we made the Cup Finals.

I think it's pretty clear the Dorion is likely to get replaced at some point in the next 12 months. Andlauer is a well connected hockey guy, and will want to bring his own crew in.

I also think it's pretty unlikely Dorion is gone the nanosecond Andlauer has the keys. There will be a transition period. If the team does poorly, it might happen as early as November/December. If the team performs well, I could see it happen next June.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Like he doesn't have Andlauers # .... lol

He’s not allowed to call him directly, as set out by Bettman.

 

[NyQuil]

Here's another hypothetical for you.

Is Dorion asking permission for any moves by the owner/board at this point in time, or just running with it as the acting GM?

I mean, he didn't fire DJ Smith, but he still recommended to the ownership (board and Andlauer) that they retain DJ Smith and the coaching staff. Does he mean "after I am inevitably canned"? Typically it's the GM that fires the coach, no?

If I'm Andlauer, and I'm taking over the team, would you run Dorion's moves by some other advisor in the interim? He obviously can't run them by Staios who is currently employed by a competing team, but someone else? Potentially a currently unemployed guy that you're planning on bringing in?

Or do you just watch Dorion potentially run the team into the ground right before you assume control?

 

[Alf Silfversson]

I don't know if Andlauer has the ability to fire Dorion right now.

It has been stated that no changes could be made by Andlauer until the sale is official, and I don't think Mann leaving disproves that. Sounds like that was inevitable after what happened with his brother.

Firing the GM in August will have little to no effect on the team. It's not like Staios could be installed and immediately get to work fixing the roster. Team will pretty much be set by then.

It's true that by August the team will be pretty much set. Bringing in a new POHO or GM ASAP has benefits though. The sooner they are in place the sooner they can get to work assessing players and prospects close-up. They can start doing a thorough evaluation of our coaching staff, etc. The sooner this all happens the sooner we get the meaningful changes this club sorely needs.

Can't happen soon enough.

 

[swiftwin]

Here's another hypothetical for you.

Is Dorion asking permission for any moves by the owner/board at this point in time, or just running with it as the acting GM?

I mean, he didn't fire DJ Smith, but he still recommended to the ownership (board and Andlauer) that they retain DJ Smith and the coaching staff. Does he mean "after I am inevitably canned"? Typically it's the GM that fires the coach, no?

If I'm Andlauer, and I'm taking over the team, would you run Dorion's moves by some other advisor in the interim? He obviously can't run it by Staios who is currently employed by a competing team, but someone else? Potentially a currently unemployed guy that you're planning on bringing in?

Or do you just watch Dorion potentially run the team into the ground right before you assume control?

The situation is no different from any of the 31 other teams. How do these 31 other owners evaluate their GMs? Do they have advisors?

The only difference is that Andlauer is new to the organization, so there will be a transition period where he gets to know the organization and it's inner workings. That's why it's unlikely he's cleaning house the nanosecond he gets the keys.

Mendes had an article a few months ago that showed what happened to other organizations under new ownership. Usually, there's a 6-18 month transition before a new GM is brought it.

 

[inthewings]

Just catching up on the Trent Mann news. Remarkable to me that there are still people who think Pierre Dorion is a competent leader of people. This front office has been a complete shit show under his watch.

 

[NyQuil]

Mendes had an article a few months ago that showed what happened to other organizations under new ownership. Usually, there's a 6-18 month transition before a new GM is brought it.

I assume that clock starts June 13th.

The situation is no different from any of the 31 other teams. How do these 31 other owners evaluate their GMs? Do they have advisors?

The difference being that those owners typically select their GMs and not inherit someone else's selection.

 

[swiftwin]

It's true that by August the team will be pretty much set. Bringing in a new POHO or GM ASAP has benefits though. The sooner they are in place the sooner they can get to work assessing players and prospects close-up. They can start doing a thorough evaluation of our coaching staff, etc. The sooner this all happens the sooner we get the meaningful changes this club sorely needs.

Can't happen soon enough.

You're just letting your opinion color the situation. It could be Andlauer's opinion that the organization does not sorely need meaningful changes. That being said, he might still want to bring his own people in. We could be looking as a slow transition if he's satisfied with how things are run.

The difference being that those owners typically select their GMs and not inherit someone else's selection.

Okay, so the obvious course of action is to take control of the team, then evaluate the staff over a period of time, then decide how to proceed. The same way any other owner would evaluate their GM.

 

[HSF]

You're just letting your opinion color the situation. It could be Andlauer's opinion that the organization does not sorely need meaningful changes. That being said, he might still want to bring his own people in. We could be looking as a slow transition if he's satisfied with how things are run.


Okay, so the obvious course of action is to take control of the team, then evaluate the staff over a period of time, then decide how to proceed. The same way any other owner would evaluate their GM.

he will definitly bring in his own people. Its standard practice to have your people in places where they can evaluate the status of the franchise. That will happen fairly quickly. Does that mean Dorion is gone right away? Who knows but they will bring in some sort of president/advisor who will be vetting the moves that Dorion wants to make

 

[Alf Silfversson]

You're just letting your opinion color the situation. It could be Andlauer's opinion that the organization does not sorely need meaningful changes. That being said, he might still want to bring his own people in. We could be looking as a slow transition if he's satisfied with how things are run.


Okay, so the obvious course of action is to take control of the team, then evaluate the staff over a period of time, then decide how to proceed. The same way any other owner would evaluate their GM.

Sorry pal. It is fiasco after fiasco with this front office up to, and including, yesterday with the Mann brothers saga. None of these leaks and flat out weird incidents are good for business.

As a rock solid business man I'd wager Andlauer feels that way as well.

 

[DrEasy]

Oh I think the Sens could go 50-25-7 and he'd still be let go.

I think there is a very real possibility he's gone as soon as Andlauer is given the keys. At the absolute latest the end of the regular season, and undoubtedly if they get off to a less than great start.

Yes, it's very similar to JP Ricciardi's tenure as a GM of the Blue Jays: an incompetent rookie GM asked to do more with less (Ricciardi traded all his expensive stars for peanuts, drastically reduced the Jays' scouting personnel and infrastructure, and had a terrible draft record), then suddenly given a bit of a boost with some middling budget bump for a 3-yr plan. The first 2 years were a fiasco (bad allocation of said budget bump), and he was let go before the 3rd year, just as the team actually started showing a bit of life.

Dorion is a goner no matter how the team does IMO.