Management GM Pierre Dorion/Front Office Thread - Part IX [Mod Warning in post 1)

[Micklebot]

We're kinda moving away from the actual point here but let's not mix being part of leadership with being the leader.

I expect all members of my leadership team to be leaders, and I think it's reasonable to expect Dorion to be a leader of the team in his role. It's not unusual for the GM to also assume the president role, Lamerello and Waddell come to mind, I think Drury in NY, David Poile too.

I also think the actual point was Dorion is expected to do things a leader does and be competent at it, not that he necessarily needs to be "the leader", whether he is the leader or a leader distracts from the point; even if he is "the leader" right now, be it by design or not, and latching on to whether or not he should be misses what's important. A GM regardless of the existence of a president of hockey ops does need to inspire confidence, and help or outright set a direction for the org. A GM does need to command respect, both of his colleagues and that of his subordinates. This is what @FunkySeeFunkyDoo was getting at. He needs to be an effective leader, and presumably he doesn't see him as such.

 

[coladin]

His primary job is to be the leader of a relatively large organization of highly skilled individuals, many of them with very big egos.

Simple fact of life is that a leader has to inspire confidence and respect. At all times, under all circumstances.

Without it, he or she has no chance.

Dorion doesn't inspire confidence when he speaks. And he flat out says and does things that make you NOT respect him.

This is a little over the top

 

[Tuna99]

Lol, You just told us how great Gorton was in NY, and now you’ve flip flopped on him,
you also forgot they got gifted a Norris trophy defenseman.

I’m talking about culture, you’re talking about NYR drafting which is showed you wasn’t great. - dont confuse these two things. If drafting was the marker of great teams Ottawa would be winning Cup now but it’s only a fraction of the pie it takes to make a winning organization.

 

[Loach]

So now Dorion doesn't have to lead? Is that it? So whos running the rebuild? What does he do then?

 

[Sweatred]

I think that the vast majority of people not only don't care who the managers are, but don't know them with maybe the exception of Dorion who gets the most air time. People watch hockey for the players & in that category Tkachuk leads this team like a champ & is a marketing icon, he definitely inspires the fans & his teammates & the press love him. Stutzle is another guy they can market the crap out of as well as Chabot especially on the French side &
they also have Norris, Batherson & Forsberg they could market. Nobody gets inspired by management, but most fans will be inspired by the players they relate to & like.

Ottawa’s a weird market. We need some Villain to justify not toughing out the terrible Ottawa traffic or expensive $25.50 tickets.

Melynk and Dorion were the easy targets .I can think of one poster here who complains about Dorion AND buys tickets … most haters fall into that intersectionality of admin haters/non attenders.

Several GM’s have their quirks,
Especially in front of the camera. We just like to magnify this one for whatever reason.

This forum is full of posters who:

Think they’d be a better GM, complain daily, ignore our revenue reality, and don’t buy tickets.

 

[bert]

This is a little over the top

It's really not. I have heard that there are as many as 7 suitors who may potentially buy the team. If the team is being shopped you have to think they're telling Dorion not to do anything drastic.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Ottawa’s a weird market. We need some Villain to justify not toughing out the terrible Ottawa traffic or expensive $25.50 tickets.

Melynk and Dorion were the easy targets .I can think of one poster here who complains about Dorion AND buys tickets … most haters fall into that intersectionality of admin haters/non attenders.

Several GM’s have their quirks,
Especially in front of the camera. We just like to magnify this one for whatever reason.

This forum is full of posters who:

Think they’d be a better GM, complain daily, ignore our revenue reality, and don’t buy tickets.

Spent three months in lower mainland BC in 2020, when the USA/Canada border was closed. Some of the takeaways were that BC has a LOT of eco taxes and fees, super expensive beer, and listeners to the local TSN radio, who call in and just trashed the crap out of the Canucks GM ( at the time ).

 

[Golden_Jet]

I’m talking about culture, you’re talking about NYR drafting which is showed you wasn’t great. - dont confuse these two things. If drafting was the marker of great teams Ottawa would be winning Cup now but it’s only a fraction of the pie it takes to make a winning organization.

Good to know your an expert on Gorton and the culture he brings to a team lol.

 

[GCK]

I’m talking about culture, you’re talking about NYR drafting which is showed you wasn’t great. - dont confuse these two things. If drafting was the marker of great teams Ottawa would be winning Cup now but it’s only a fraction of the pie it takes to make a winning organization.

You mean the culture of firing your top 2 hockey execs because they wouldn’t support the owner’s “horrifying acts of violence” statement.

 

[Tuna99]

Good to know your an expert on Gorton and the culture he brings to a team lol.

I’m no expert I just understand that diversity of hiring, building trust with the fanbase by being open and honest, treating the media as an extension of the team and not a hostile arm of the fanbase and placing yourself as a leader in the community for inclusiveness and openness to all builds positive culture fans buy into (buy into ethically, emotionally and financially just wanted to be clear on that) If you don’t have these things you risk collapsing your attendance because the community doesn’t trust or believe in you, and will stop showing up.

 

[BloodRedArmy]

If drafting was the marker of great teams Ottawa would be winning Cup now but it’s only a fraction of the pie it takes to make a winning organization.

I've said it for years... where does this notion that Ottawa is great at drafting come from? Middle of the pack if you ask me...

A few hits for sure (Batherson, Chabot, hopefully Pinto, Brady when everyone was opposed)... but so many misses (L Brown, White, time will tell on Boucher).

Would love to see a hits/ misses comparison throughout the league.

Ottawa’s a weird market. We need some Villain to justify not toughing out the terrible Ottawa traffic or expensive $25.50 tickets.

Melynk and Dorion were the easy targets .I can think of one poster here who complains about Dorion AND buys tickets … most haters fall into that intersectionality of admin haters/non attenders.

Several GM’s have their quirks,
Especially in front of the camera. We just like to magnify this one for whatever reason.

This forum is full of posters who:

Think they’d be a better GM, complain daily, ignore our revenue reality, and don’t buy tickets.

He instills zero confidence when he speaks, plays games with his words (in a childish way, not a clever way) and repeatedly puts his foot in his mouth. Nobody is putting undue magnification on his shortcomings but him.

 

[aragorn]

You have Joe Sakic and some freak Dorion. Where the f*ck he even came from?

There are 32 GMs & none of them are perfect, every team goes through good yrs, especially when they win the lottery in a yr that there is a generational player available & they have bad yrs when their better players start to age out & they have to sell them off. The Avalanche have been very lucky winning the lottery to draft McKinnon, but he is also into his 9th season before they have made it this far before. Toronto was just as lucky winning the lottery to draft Mathews (into his 6th season), Pitt winning the lottery to draft Crosby & Edm winning the lottery to draft McDavid. Kucherov has turned into a generational player but was drafted in the 2nd rd #58th OA, every team missed him once & almost twice that yr. Every team missed Mark Stone for six rounds, drafting is not a perfect science when you have to forecast into the future how an 18 yr old is going to turn out. There is a lot of luck that plays into these late picks that turn out.

Ott has yet to win the lottery & if or when they ever do, there is no guarantee a generational talent will be available that yr. Philly drafted Nolan Patrick 2nd OA who turned into a bust & Col drafted MaKar 4th OA in the same yr & Col got a generational defenceman who in hindsight should have been the 1st OA player drafted that yr. Wright this yr is not considered a generational player either & could be passed by a better player drafted after him, there are lots of other examples of players drafted in the top 10 not working out by almost every team. At the moment one could argue that Stutzle has turned into the better player over Lafreniere drafted 1st OA. Edm drafted Yakopov 1st OV, where is he today & a lot of people on here called him elite or generational?

Dorion has over 20 yrs of experience & came from Montreal (Amateur scout) where his father was also in management with the team & NYR (Scout) but you knew that already. Brian Murray hired him to be Chief of Amateur Scouting & got promoted to Dir of Player Personnel than Assistant GM before Brian died. I'm not a big supporter of his, but we all know why he is the GM because he was at the right place at the right time with the right GM who recommended him & he probably makes the least amount of salary than most GMs in the NHL. Sakic probably makes twice as much as Dorion, it wouldn't surprise me if he made less than some other managers in lesser positions on other teams either. Should he be fired, probably or eventually will be, but who else would come here that would have more experience or be better for the same amount of money? Like every other fan base we will only be happy when the team wins a SC & until that time every manager & player they hire & draft will come under scrutiny for not winning a SC.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Ottawa’s a weird market. We need some Villain to justify not toughing out the terrible Ottawa traffic or expensive $25.50 tickets.

Melynk and Dorion were the easy targets .I can think of one poster here who complains about Dorion AND buys tickets … most haters fall into that intersectionality of admin haters/non attenders.

Several GM’s have their quirks,
Especially in front of the camera. We just like to magnify this one for whatever reason.

This forum is full of posters who:

Think they’d be a better GM, complain daily, ignore our revenue reality, and don’t buy tickets.

Melnyk was a villain.

The Eugene Melnyk era in Ottawa: Hopeful, then bizarre and tyrannical

From "beyond embarrassing" meltdowns to puzzling personnel decisions: An in-depth look at Melnyk's mercurial two-decade reign

theathletic.com

 

[cudi]

Melnyk was a villain.

The Eugene Melnyk era in Ottawa: Hopeful, then bizarre and tyrannical

From "beyond embarrassing" meltdowns to puzzling personnel decisions: An in-depth look at Melnyk's mercurial two-decade reign

theathletic.com

can you give those of us without a subscription a quick recap with the important stuff from the article?

 

[Knave]

There are 32 GMs & none of them are perfect

How many of them have been at the helm for 5 straight years of missing the playoffs?

 

[Sweatred]

How many of them have been at the helm for 5 straight years of missing the playoffs?

The same number of them who have to manage a payroll on the leagues worst revenue for the last 5 years ?

 

[OD99]

can you give those of us without a subscription a quick recap with the important stuff from the article?

It's that same article that came out a few weeks after Eugene passed away so you would have seen lots of snippets already.

I don't have a subscription myself or would provide more details now.

 

[cudi]

It's that same article that came out a few weeks after Eugene passed away so you would have seen lots of snippets already.

I don't have a subscription myself or would provide more details now.

gotcha. Thought this was a new story.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

can you give those of us without a subscription a quick recap with the important stuff from the article?

He called a woman a C word!
He got enraged and stopped some pride social media that was Senators related!
He got drunk and embarrassed himself and others.

He was a bad boss!

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

can you give those of us without a subscription a quick recap with the important stuff from the article?

Some of it is bad and some is just funny in an embarrassing sort of way. I strongly encourage everyone to read the full article for proper context and I assume it will be considered off topic and deleted if I post too much. I think the main takeaway should be what was said by all those involved in the article that this is not even scratching the surface and that they'd have a 10,000+ page report if not for the Athletic's very strict requirements of 7 or 8 source checks required. Some things were 4 or 5 source checked but still not allowed.

Some highlights would be

-Snippet about his legal issues involving Biovail with a 24.6 million fine, 10 million settlement, 5 year ban and another $565k fine. Old news I suppose.

-Railing against the "f***ing gay campaign" and the employees responsible for long after including using prejudice language

“Are you the one responsible for this f***ing gay campaign? Have you lost your f***ing mind? You need to take that shit down immediately.”

It was a Friday evening, Feb. 8, 2019, when a team executive received the phone call, Melnyk’s nasal screaming reverberating on the other line.

-Abusive phone calls and emails to employees, including well outside working hours phone calls and levelling threats and masogynistic insults at a particular female employee.

Also that year, Melnyk sent a threatening email to a female employee who had not responded immediately to an email Melnyk sent her. When she finally wrote back, reminding Melnyk she was on a scheduled vacation, he responded in all caps: “YOU f***ING C – – T – WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE? WHEN I SAY CALL YOU DO IT. WHEN I TELL YOU TO DO SOMETHING YOU DO IT. YOU ARE DONE!”

That same female employee had received a threatening email from Melnyk about a year earlier that includes the lines: “You really are a dumb bitch who doesn’t get it. How dare you write and question me” and “You are a no one.”

-Numerous external surveys brought in coming to same conclusion of toxic workplace

In a summary of findings written in August 2019 and labeled “The Bitter Truth,” Level5 concluded:

• The Senators as a brand, a business, and a hockey team are facing an existential crisis that threatens the club
• The business will not improve if it continues to operate in a way it is operating today; substantial change is required in order to accomplish a substantial turnaround
• Currently, the Senators have no brand; the Eugene Melnyk brand is overwhelming the Senators brand and it is negatively impacting the organization

I'll stop there but there's some other interesting stuff like not paying external partners on time or agreed upon amounts. Trying to have his friend/understudy arrested and thrown in jail for his delusions about thievery. Lots of other recap like the Jim Little and O'Leary stuff.

 

[cudi]

He called a woman a C word!
He got enraged and stopped some pride social media that was Senators related!
He got drunk and embarrassed himself and others.

He was a bad boss!

well that doesnt sound like a good one, thats for sure. A little respect for people goes a long way.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

He called a woman a C word!
He got enraged and stopped some pride social media that was Senators related!
He got drunk and embarrassed himself and others.

He was a bad boss!

Minimize, downplay and excuse. No acknowledgement of the power dynamics involved. All immediately firable offences for anyone but the one person with the power not to allow themselves be held accountable. Good for you.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Minimize, downplay and excuse. Good for you.

Just not exaggerating it.

 

[Tragedy]

can you give those of us without a subscription a quick recap with the important stuff from the article?

Like said it's the same article that came out earlier.
Some snippits include:

“YOU f***ING C – – T – WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE? WHEN I SAY CALL YOU DO IT. WHEN I TELL YOU TO DO SOMETHING YOU DO IT. YOU ARE DONE!”

In response to a female employee not responding to an e-mail while she was on vacation.

Being mad they were doing pride stuff one of his quotes after a Love is Love marketing campaign:

"They think we are so desperate that we have to advertise to gays now. Dogs and gays."

Don't want to post too much since its subscription content but the jist is just Melnyk being a douche

 

[OD99]

He called a woman a C word!
He got enraged and stopped some pride social media that was Senators related!
He got drunk and embarrassed himself and others.

He was a bad boss!

Yikes.

All of these things are true, just not in the, "It's all good, he is a boss and a little eccentric. Nothing to see here." way that you seem to want to portray it.

There is also clearly much more to it - many more I would expect if these are the major ones to get reported.

Trying to always be the arbiter of truth & justice here yet fiercely defending this stuff doesn't add up. It's repugnant behaviour, hard to believe anyone would want to associate their names to downplay it. You can tell yourself you are just not exaggerating it but it doesn't come off that way.