Management GM Pierre Dorion/Front Office Thread - Part IX [Mod Warning in post 1)

[PatrickEaves]

You don’t trade two first rounders in a row and then make mushy mouthed statements to the media about how making the playoffs isn’t the goal, just wanna play meaningful games in April lol

From the same guy that said the rebuild is over last season.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

What was this homework?

 

[Burrowsaurus]

7oa vs mystery 1st projected later end of the first given Det gets to pick which first they send, 38 OA vs mystery 4th.

It's a pretty clear downgrade, when you consider DeBrincat didn't have a great year and we missed the playoffs, it's a big whiff.

Maybe the off ice impact in terms of ticket sales, and corporate engagement along with making Ottawa a bit more of an exciting destination for players to want to come can justify it, but this is certainly a situation where we gave more value than we got.

Kubalik also likely not to be here if he wants any sort of significant raise.

 

[NyQuil]

What was this homework?

How to spell DeBrincat for the jersey unveiling.

 

[Icelevel]

I think you’ve just gone too far down the rabbit hole of personal dislike. You cant help but slant everything to the negative, at times to the extreme. The strongest example is when PD was asked about the playoffs. The salient points he made was that last he said meaningful games at the TDL, and that’s what happened, this year he said he’d make
bold predictions to the media once the roster is set. That’s it. he hinted that signings and trades were still strong possibilities, and that he’d make his bold season prediction once the roster was set.

It was a solid candid interview about several
important topics that interest fans. Dorion gave several thoughtful, detailed, and informative answers to those questions.

He gave a lot of insight into the entire process of acquiring and ultimately trading DBC, and he explained the hopes and the gambles without making excuses. He admitted that the last goaltending swings didn’t work, and explained why they like Korpi, and why they think this time will be different.

It was a very solid interview from a fan perspective, it’s pretty much the degree of ease and candidness that we wish for from our GM. Next guy will likely be what you seem to now be pining for, and we’ll get very little information and lots of canned answers.

I’m enjoying the detailed information while we still get it.

Yeah you’re too forgiving now and used to his unprofessionalism.
My comment was about Lloyd’s question. He said can we stop hearing about meaningful games now? Which is what a lot of people are tired of. He answered with we’re going to play meaningful games.

And no you’re wrong there. I don’t mind Pierre at all as a person even like the guy. But definitely not as the gm of an nhl team.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Yeah you’re too forgiving now and used to his unprofessionalism.
My comment was about Lloyd’s question. He said can we stop hearing about meaningful games now? Which is what a lot of people are tired of. He answered with we’re going to play meaningful games.

And no you’re wrong there. I don’t mind Pierre at all as a person even like the guy. But definitely not as the gm of an nhl team.

He very clearly said that he was going to make his bold statements on the season after the roster is set. Of course we want to play meaningful games, his answer to that question was very clearly that he’d make his bold prediction at camp, and its pretty obvious that it won’t be that.

People who are tired of the phrase ‘meaningful games’ feel that way because of their echo chamber anyways, not because Pierre was dropping the phrase every time he got behind a camera. Not to mention it was the team goal for exactly ONE season, and yet fans are sooooo tired of it…. Lol give me a break, fans are constantly creating their own drama. Comes across as whiney, so I’m glad it’s only a Twitter/online thing.

His job is not public speaking though, he’s not a coms guy, his profession is building a hockey team, not public speaking. Speaking to the media is just something that he has to do, like players and coaches, It’s why you get a range of public speaking abilities amongst GM’s; because it isn’t important.

Come on dude, explain to me why ANY fan would prefer stoic professional demeanour and hockey speak, instead of getting thoughtful candid and in-depth answers. All of the off the cuff bloopers make things so much more humourous and authentic, and Pierre has plenty of those, but he is also honest and forthcoming with his thoughts and reasonings.

I know I much prefer that kind of information as a fan, and I don’t much care how it’s delivered, because these guys are hired to build teams not massage the media smoothly.

 

[Icelevel]

He very clearly said that he was going to make his bold statements on the season after the roster is set. Of course we want to play meaningful games, his answer to that question was very clearly that he’d make his bold prediction at camp, and its pretty obvious that it won’t be that.

People who are tired of the phrase ‘meaningful games’ feel that way because of their echo chamber anyways, not because Pierre was dropping the phrase every time he got behind a camera. Not to mention it was the team goal for exactly ONE season, and yet fans are sooooo tired of it…. Lol give me a break, fans are constantly creating their own drama. Comes across as whiney, so I’m glad it’s only a Twitter/online thing.

His job is not public speaking though, he’s not a coms guy, his profession is building a hockey team, not public speaking. Speaking to the media is just something that he has to do, like players and coaches, It’s why you get a range of public speaking abilities amongst GM’s; because it isn’t important.

Come on dude, explain to me why ANY fan would prefer stoic professional demeanour and hockey speak, instead of getting thoughtful candid and in-depth answers. All of the off the cuff bloopers make things so much more humourous and authentic, and Pierre has plenty of those, but he is also honest and forthcoming with his thoughts and reasonings.

I know I much prefer that kind of information as a fan, and I don’t much care how it’s delivered, because these guys are hired to build teams not massage the media smoothly.

He’s a damn clown. That’s it. He makes our organization look dumb. Doesn’t help that the team stinks.
He’ll be gone asap. The new owner is on my side. You’re all alone bro.

 

[Ice-Tray]

He’s a damn clown. That’s it. He makes our organization look dumb. Doesn’t help that the team stinks.
He’ll be gone asap. The new owner is on my side. You’re all alone bro.

Weird post.

No one outside of angsty online Sens fans care much about Dorion in this way. Personally I find these types of fans far more embarrassing for the rest of the fanbase. Thankfully they tend to stay anonymous online where they are completely avoidable.

The new owners is not on your side, he doesn’t know you, nor care to know you. He’s going to do what he wants to do, and you’ll continue to wait online for the moment where you can bask in your strange personal vengeance towards a person who doesn’t even know you exist.

As for me being alone? Hardly. The vast bulk of Sens fans are just like me; they have no shits to give about petty personal bullshit, they don’t worry about what other people think about the organization, and they’ll move on with whatever new people are hired, looking to listen to occasional media drops to hear interesting team related information.

 

[JD1]

He’s a damn clown. That’s it. He makes our organization look dumb. Doesn’t help that the team stinks.
He’ll be gone asap. The new owner is on my side. You’re all alone bro.

Billionaires tend to be ruthless, not dumb. Andlauer has been in the league a long time and he certainly has his own connections. He'll certainly assess PD himself but, here's where the not dumb thing comes in, he'll also reach out to his own connections to get an assessment of Dorion in terms of both where the team currently sits and what the perception is of Dorion around the league.

I suspect when he makes those enquiries, what he hears won't be quite as negative as your views are.

I watched an awful lot of hockey last year and the vast majority of it listening to the away feeds. The perception across the league is we've got a solid up and coming team and I think we'll be better in October roster wise than at any point last year.

 

[JungleBeat]

Everything this kid says is bullshit. He showed up to his press conference wearing a Pistons hat lol. I guess he didn't have a picture of himself as a kid in his DRW bed spread and pyjamas. Come on guys. I don't know why he's being so elusive about it but it's pretty clear he only wanted to sign in Detroit and took a cut on AAV and term to do it too. He needs to be a man and admit to what he wanted. Like, who gives a f*** if you wanted to play in your hometown? But stop pretending you were going for these long walks or something trying to contemplate this existential decision about your future. And if he thinks he has more assurances of immediate team success in Detroit than Ottawa then there's really nothing else to be said about this soap opera. Enjoy playing in your hometown but stop pretending you ever really considered anything else.

You seem triggered, relax. Debrincat doesn’t owe you anything.

 

[Loach]

You seem triggered, relax. Debrincat doesn’t owe you anything.

You just set him off! Run! Lol

 

[Senscore]

 

[stempniaksen]

The DBC affair is over. This happens to other teams. No GM was going to get a better return. It was a shit place to be in.

We just saw Kevin Cheveldayoff trade his disgruntled star that wanted out for a haul.

I think saying something like this is easy as a throw-away statement because you can't prove it one way or the other, but this isn't the first time Doroin has misplayed a player wanting out and getting (arguably) less than he could or should have.

 

[Mingus Dew]

What was this homework?

Pierre, we can assure you that Alex prefers Mucho Burrito to Chiptole. With 98% certainty.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

We just saw Kevin Cheveldayoff trade his disgruntled star that wanted out for a haul.

I think saying something like this is easy as a throw-away statement because you can't prove it one way or the other, but this isn't the first time Doroin has misplayed a player wanting out and getting (arguably) less than he could or should have.

It often seems to be this line of thinking of he did the best he could, give him a break sort of thing. How many times can you say that before you start questioning though.

I'd keep that one to myself, but all the power to him for being honest.

 

[Sensinitis]

Got schooled by a 33 year old Davidson at the time lol

 

[Wondercarrot]

He very clearly said that he was going to make his bold statements on the season after the roster is set. Of course we want to play meaningful games, his answer to that question was very clearly that he’d make his bold prediction at camp, and its pretty obvious that it won’t be that.

People who are tired of the phrase ‘meaningful games’ feel that way because of their echo chamber anyways, not because Pierre was dropping the phrase every time he got behind a camera. Not to mention it was the team goal for exactly ONE season, and yet fans are sooooo tired of it…. Lol give me a break, fans are constantly creating their own drama. Comes across as whiney, so I’m glad it’s only a Twitter/online thing.

His job is not public speaking though, he’s not a coms guy, his profession is building a hockey team, not public speaking. Speaking to the media is just something that he has to do, like players and coaches, It’s why you get a range of public speaking abilities amongst GM’s; because it isn’t important.

Come on dude, explain to me why ANY fan would prefer stoic professional demeanour and hockey speak, instead of getting thoughtful candid and in-depth answers. All of the off the cuff bloopers make things so much more humourous and authentic, and Pierre has plenty of those, but he is also honest and forthcoming with his thoughts and reasonings.

I know I much prefer that kind of information as a fan, and I don’t much care how it’s delivered, because these guys are hired to build teams not massage the media smoothly.

All well and good, and of course we all want candid thoughtful answers - we would just prefer them where the GM doesn’t sound like a silly bumbler who is always uncertain about everything.

and while he has built a good core, he has left himself devoid of picks and next wave prospects to fill holes - while also being a cap team, and has yet to make the playoffs.

So it’s possible to both like the team that has been built , while also seeing the very obvious flaws /faults in the rebuild process and the GM.

 

[Ouroboros]

People think this reflects poorly on Dorion, and perhaps they're right. But what do you want him to do? Eventually the limitations of a small Canadian market have to be recognized.

At this point everybody accepts that Ottawa isn't really a desirable UFA destination and are on the vast majority of NTC's leaguewide. So a substantial portion of the player pool is functionally unavailable to Dorion in terms of team-building. Now people want to extend that to players who are entering the final year of their contracts and won't agree to an immediate extension? What does that leave you with?

Anybody that steps into the job as GM of the Ottawa Senators will have to be willing to take risks to succeed. There is no other path. The whole idea of patiently drafting and developing becomes far less viable an ideal when you begin seeing 25 year old RFA's like Dubois and DeBrincat strong-arm their way out of places they don't want to be. Timelines are getting compressed; you can't nickel and dime your best players until they're 31 anymore.

Ultimately I think Dorion's key misstep in this whole fiasco was less about the initial trade to acquire DeBrincat, and more about how he handled trading him out of Ottawa. He should have taken a page from Kyle Davidson's book. Don't let the player direct the process when you don't have to.

This ended up going down a similar path as Mark Stone. The Senators gave the player too much control under the illusion of being able to juice a trade return by virtue of having a contract extension. Didn't really work out, and in both cases the Senators ended up basically getting the rental value for the players anyway.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Dude is just quoting what Dorion said in the interview.

Just posting Dorion quotes.

This is the thing. He is not typically misrepresenting them, he's posting snippets of direct quotes in most cases. If it does or does not reflect poorly on Dorion is not up to Graeme.

There's a good lesson in there for anyone in any sort of public relations position. Don't give them the fuel they need for their fire or you will get burned.

 

[NyQuil]

I like a wide variety of opinions.

Even on this board:

• We have raging optimists and crushing negatively-oriented folks.
• We have people with varying tolerances for risk and error.
• We have analytical professors and we have eye-test "watch the games!" people.
• We have emotionless cap accountants and we have people who just want to be entertained.
• We have people who are natural contrarians who continuously question the status quo, and we have people who believe in the collective wisdom.

Every single player on this team has fans and detractors. Most situations have upside and downside.

It can be frustrating at times but that is what makes a community.

To be collegial, to have an actual working community, means to accept that not everyone will share your opinion, and to try not to hate the person because of their opinion.

I don't think it's really that hard to understand where someone is coming from, even if you don't agree.

To some, to be a fan means to support the team, management and its players 100%. That's what they need - unequivocal, uncompromising support from their fans. The team is their extended family, and your job as a fan is to be positive and unwavering in your admiration.

To others, being a fan means to want the team to succeed as much as possible, which means supporting their best decisions while decrying their worst. It means being critical about the team and its management, holding them to account for every misstep.

Both of these definitions are ultimately applicable.

There are posters that I generally agree with, just as there are columnists, journalists and insiders that make me nod in agreement.

But I can get just as much insight out of people I disagree with, and there are posters out there that I've disagreed with for years and years because we simply have a fundamentally different belief in what makes a great hockey team, or a great hockey player, and who I still admire very much.

And that's fine, because there is no right answer out there.

 

[Emerica]

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

People think this reflects poorly on Dorion, and perhaps they're right. But what do you want him to do? Eventually the limitations of a small Canadian market have to be recognized.

At this point everybody accepts that Ottawa isn't really a desirable UFA destination and are on the vast majority of NTC's leaguewide. So a substantial portion of the player pool is functionally unavailable to Dorion in terms of team-building. Now people want to extend that to players who are entering the final year of their contracts and won't agree to an immediate extension? What does that leave you with?

Anybody that steps into the job as GM of the Ottawa Senators will have to be willing to take risks to succeed. There is no other path. The whole idea of patiently drafting and developing becomes far less viable an ideal when you begin seeing 25 year old RFA's like Dubois and DeBrincat strong-arm their way out of places they don't want to be. Timelines are getting compressed; you can't nickel and dime your best players until they're 31 anymore.

Ultimately I think Dorion's key misstep in this whole fiasco was less about the initial trade to acquire DeBrincat, and more about how he handled trading him out of Ottawa. He should have taken a page from Kyle Davidson's book. Don't let the player direct the process when you don't have to.

This ended up going down a similar path as Mark Stone. The Senators gave the player too much control under the illusion of being able to juice a trade return by virtue of having a contract extension. Didn't really work out, and in both cases the Senators ended up basically getting the rental value for the players anyway.

Sure, but he wasn't forced to acquire him. He made his choice and he is living with it as is everyone else.

I like a wide variety of opinions.

Even on this board:

• We have raging optimists and crushing negatively-oriented folks.
• We have people with varying tolerances for risk and error.
• We have analytical professors and we have eye-test "watch the games!" people.
• We have emotionless cap accountants and we have people who just want to be entertained.
• We have people who are natural contrarians who continuously question the status quo, and we have people who believe in collective wisdom.

Every single player on this team has fans and detractors. There are always of examples of guys who have turned their games around, and guys who tank.

It can be frustrating at times but that is what makes a community.

Most situations have upside and downside.

To be collegial, to have an actual working community, means to accept that not everyone will share your opinion, and to try not to hate the person because of their opinion.

I don't think it's really that hard to understand where someone is coming from, even if you don't agree.

To some, to be a fan means to support the team, management and its players 100%. That's what they need - unequivocal, uncompromising support from their fans. The team is their extended family, and your job as a fan is to be positive and unwavering in your admiration.

To others, being a fan means to want the team to succeed as much as possible, which means supporting their best decisions while decrying their worst. It means being critical about the team and its management, holding them to account for every misstep.

Both of these definitions are ultimately applicable.

And sometimes we ourselves change the kind of fan we are.

As a young person, I was an unchecked optimist when it came to sports and the Senators specifically. Now I'm more jaded and realistic about the actual odds of winning anything of consequence.

 

[NyQuil]

This almost needs its own thread.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

This almost needs its own thread.

Too slow bro

 

[Knave]

People think this reflects poorly on Dorion, and perhaps they're right. But what do you want him to do?

Nothing. I want him to be replaced. He's had 7 seasons with this organization and we've missed the playoffs the last 6.

Yes, you need to take risks. But generally speaking when you make big risks via UFA and trade it's one or both of the following:

1) Sign-trade
2) UFA pickups on long term deals

or

3) You're a contender taking a big risk to win it all (does not apply to our situation)

The problem is Dorion is taking huge risks to attempt to make the playoffs. And one has backfired. Now the optimists are pinning their hopes on having a season where all our key pieces are healthy and also have no regression. And if that happens we might make the playoffs.

And you're right I think it does reflect poorly. I don't care enough to know all the rules and regulations of negotiating and talking with players and agents but when a seller is trying to minimize your contact with what you're acquiring that should raise some red flags. And maybe Dorion understood that but was so desperate to make the playoffs in the six season of our drought he didn't care. Then he should own DeBrincat walking away and not shift blame.