Sens of Anarchy
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Management GM Pierre Dorion/Front Office Thread - Part IX [Mod Warning in post 1)
- Thread starter AchtzehnBaby
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Sens of Anarchy
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BondraTime
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Sens need to just shop him as a 1 year rental the same way he was shopped to them. You’re on your own, you need to convince him to sign.
Sucks, but there’s no point in working out trades based on an extension when DBC/other teams need to catch lightning in a bottle to have all the terms met of DBC and the team
Sucks, but there’s no point in working out trades based on an extension when DBC/other teams need to catch lightning in a bottle to have all the terms met of DBC and the team
Sens of Anarchy
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Exactly ... Shop him take 2 days to talk to teams , make a decision and move him. Likelihood of a trade with an extension is minute at this point... Waiting or hoping for some anomaly means you are stuck.
Tap on the Ankle
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He should have been gone at the draft or at the very latest before free agency. Opportunities to move him have dried up by now.
Good chance the team is stuck with him this year. Can an arbitration contract player still be traded? If not might be best to sign him before arb to a 1 year then trade him as a rental, possibly with retention if the value is there. This season is a writeoff if they have to keep him. Zero depth.
Need to get new hockey ops like yesterday.
Good chance the team is stuck with him this year. Can an arbitration contract player still be traded? If not might be best to sign him before arb to a 1 year then trade him as a rental, possibly with retention if the value is there. This season is a writeoff if they have to keep him. Zero depth.
Need to get new hockey ops like yesterday.
Beech
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he cost #7. The third DMAN off the board.
recent examples of 2nd/third D men of the board and a top 10.
2020 Jamie Drysdale,
2019 Mortiz Seider, Philip Broberg (a bust)
2018 Quinn Hughes, Adam Boqvist (a so-so)
2017 Cale Makar
2016 M. Sergeshev
2015 I. Provorov, Z. Werenski
5 stars, 3 above average, 1 so-so, 1 bust
for a one year rental. and the team failed to make the playoffs.
ouch.... 1 Norris, 1 smyth, 1 calder (granted same guy).. as we move forward, what will the haul of awards be for these guys.
That is one expensive rental
Butchy Dakkar
Dark Butch Yak didn't seem right.
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But it’s so much better than the budget cap floor crap we had to endure a few years ago
PlayersLtd
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An arbitration contract can most certainly be traded.
We will sign him to his QO and ride him to the TDL which, if he has a good season, will garner a decent return. If we are good we ride him into the playoffs, get a taste for the first time in 7 years, maybe make some noise and lose him for nothing. There is also the chance that he and his wife warm even more to the city and he signs an extension mid season
Far worse scenarios have played out for other GM's. I'll be perfectly fine with either scenario and I respect PD for taking a shot at making this team better last year even if it put us in this very predictable little conundrum.
Everyone is overreacting and PS the same scenario is likely to play out with Chychrun (except we get three years of him and not 2) so to everyone clamouring about how bad the ADC situation is make your case on Chych now before your 20/20 hindsight kicks in.
inthewings
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The problem is that, even if Cat only gets 7.6M, they're 1M over the cap with a 20-man roster. They'd have to pay someone to take on Joseph, replace him with a league min player, and then still likely keep no extra bodies on the roster.
aragorn
Do The Right Thing
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It's too bad we didn't get rid of him sooner so we could have tried to get Bertuzzi now we have to hope he doesn't work out with the Leafs. Who was that tough guy that we wanted, he came to visit Ottawa, but signed in Toronto & got hurt & never really ever played for them? Missed a bullet there for sure.
BonHoonLayneCornell
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BondraTime
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Gil Gunderson
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Do you think Bertuzzi would have signed here if we offered him like 6.5 mil? Or does he want to play one year on an offensive powerhouse and playoff lock in Toronto to boost his value for next offseason?
aragorn
Do The Right Thing
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You don't think we have some high powered offensive players in Stutzle, Tkachuk, Giroux, Norris & Batherson? How close are Stutzle & Tkachuk to being 100 pt players? Norris & Batherson could be 70 to 80 pt players. A million more is a million more & who knows what could happen next yr, he could get seriously hurt or it might not work out. You just never know, would have been super interesting.
Bertuzzi - Stutzle - Giroux
Tkachuk - Norris - Batherson
Gil Gunderson
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Sure but this team has proven nothing. Leafs are already an established contender. We just see this as an appealing option for him because we follow this team everyday.
BonHoonLayneCornell
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We're still a team that needs to prove itself though. And our guys haven't yet hit the production the Leafs guys have. Sort of like Connor Brown, it's a more guarantied situation with a contending team.
Do Make Say Think
& Yet & Yet
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So the agent failed to do Dorion's job and Pierre gets Garrioch to push back on Twitter on his behalf?
How was that Dorion's job? You don't let a pending free agent negotiate contracts with any and every team that they wish to. You ask them for a list, negotiate deals with each team and when you're close you let them talk to each other. It's kind of straightforward.
BondraTime
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It’s the Sens wanting a contract to be signed, not DBC.
The Sens didn’t need to ask for a list, he doesn’t have any trade protection. They could trade him to Winnipeg if the wanted to. They’re hoping to get a return for a signed DBC, which DBC has no compulsion to do if he doesn’t want to.
Seems DBC was perfectly fine giving a 5 team list that unpredictably wasn’t good for the Sens and only teams DBC wanted to go to, most of them knowing weren’t even able to trade for him. He knows at the very worst he’s playing this year at ~8 million and can go from there.
Why does DBC want to sign now when next season teams have a ton more space and UFA’s will get more money?
Getting upset that DBC and his agent are making it hard to complete a trade because the Sens are in a shitty spot is a shitty excuse.
Just let teams know he’s a rental, move him as a rental, and move him wherever. They’re under no compulsion to only be able to move a signed DBC.
The Sens didn’t need to ask for a list, he doesn’t have any trade protection. They could trade him to Winnipeg if the wanted to. They’re hoping to get a return for a signed DBC, which DBC has no compulsion to do if he doesn’t want to.
Seems DBC was perfectly fine giving a 5 team list that unpredictably wasn’t good for the Sens and only teams DBC wanted to go to, most of them knowing weren’t even able to trade for him. He knows at the very worst he’s playing this year at ~8 million and can go from there.
Why does DBC want to sign now when next season teams have a ton more space and UFA’s will get more money?
Getting upset that DBC and his agent are making it hard to complete a trade because the Sens are in a shitty spot is a shitty excuse.
Just let teams know he’s a rental, move him as a rental, and move him wherever. They’re under no compulsion to only be able to move a signed DBC.
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Agent Zuuuub
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seems like we would probably get a better return at the TDL.
but what happens if we are in the race and it's either trade DBC for much needed assets or keep him to try and make the playoffs, but lose him for nothing.
and how does Dorion keep putting himself in situations like this lol.
but what happens if we are in the race and it's either trade DBC for much needed assets or keep him to try and make the playoffs, but lose him for nothing.
and how does Dorion keep putting himself in situations like this lol.
PlayersLtd
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Literally every deadline acquisition leaves for nothing once the team is out of the playoffs. How would this be different?
Loach
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Beech
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a playoff team typically finishes 1-16 in the standings. And so, when you give up a #1.. it is 17th-32nd overall. Assuming a first was thrown in.
Should the team be very successful and reach an ECF or WCF, the picks are 28 and 29.
and spots 17-20 are when, a suicidal GM of the 4 teams finishing 7 and 8 in each conference pulls a #1 for a rental.. Smart ones, know better. So, in more realistic terms, a #1 is spent on a rental in the shape of a pick in the #21-32 range.
they traded a #7...KNOWING HE WAS A #7... not some unforeseen collapse...NO,, knew ahead of time.. and the team missed the playoffs.
They threw a dart.. a high risk dart.. that is it.. the dart missed... just take the lumps and move on.... Aye the arguments.. the spin... This team and spin... Cannot stand up and just say: we took a risk, it failed.. Nope, everything has to be lathered in butter, and we are asked to take a bite, and swallow.
PlayersLtd
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Worst case scenario yes, DBC was a rental. How was this lost on people when we traded for him a year ago and decided to finally try to start winning? Did people honestly not compute this potential scenario back then???
We could have made the playoffs last year without bad injury luck and we are expected to make the playoffs this year. How is picking up ADC as a rental for that any more strange than a low seed trading a first for a push at the TDL?
I should remind everyone that we needed some hope this time last year as we were coming out of the dark age. Dorion was selling hope and, if you were to turn back the clock 365 days, you can't really fault him for it. Ironically, not many people did because the consensus was very positive, everyone was on board with the idea of turning over a new leaf and ADC, to a large extent, represented that.
So everyone should cut the hindsight BS and just accept it for what it is. 100%, GM's at the NHL level are less concerned about asset management that the armchair basement dwellers around here. In a perfect world, yeah everything is a home run but that's not reality. YET, oddly, we still have one year to see how this plays out so technically the ball that came off the bat is still in the air.
The value was increased by having two years of control so your first round pick range doesn't apply as you spelled it out.
If we get a return at the trade deadline the delta between what a team should logically pay for two years of control and what we paid closes to a negligible number.
Loach
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Just wanted to make sure that PD wanted DBC as rental. Just getting the new facts right. No big deal.
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