Management GM Pierre Dorion/Front Office Thread - Part IX [Mod Warning in post 1)

[Samsquanch]

GM's stick their neck out when they make these moves. He needs Korpisalo to work out, or really, any goaltender, so Forsberg getting back to form works too.

I really hope it goes well and we're not standing here months from now with underperforming goalies, a team out of the playoffs, and us wondering where we go from there.

No doubt about it that this was a risky signing, albeit a necessary one.
And so let's all pray it works out for us. It's could go either way.

But I swear to god people like to ignore what the obvious truth is. Dorion just told us flat out. There were good goalies available for trade - they just all had Ottawa on the NTC list....LOL. truth people. Dorion has to had to work with Melnyks and the Ottawa market working against him, and we still have delusional folks thinking they know so much better.

So this signing had to be made imo. Shrewd move. Let's hope it works out.

 

[Beech]

That is certainly an angle that deserves discussion about rebuilds in general from a fan perspective. They should be cratering the prices based on the product.

You're paying exorbitant amounts of money to go watch a professional sports team not trying to win, from an organizational perspective. You pretty much have to be able to just enjoy dragging yourself all the way there and back and sitting in the stands watching an inconsequential hockey game while drinking overpriced draft beer at that point.

there really cannot be.. It is the whole that dictates the action of any individual team.

the league is governed by the "hypothetical" mid team.. that 165 M generating team...

Now who cares if you are a powerhouse or the Sens/Red Wings/Sabers... you have to keep up... You need to generate close to 165 M... because you need to spend close to 165.

So now a poor product, but needing to generate 165 M, with zero choice.

welcome to pro sports...

 

[Beech]

Well, god is fiction imo lol

But ya, his lore is taking a hit. I never really heaped the praise on him personally.

every GM lives in the "win the lottery world". It goes beyond winning the lottery, as in selecting first.

winning the lottery in pro sports is "f***ing good luck".. it is Tom Brady as a 198 or 199 pick and becoming the goat. Then you have 21 years in New England with Belichik the genius..

It is Daniel Alfredson and being a sixth rounder.

GMs live and die, gain insane reputations on the backs of; 1-5 un f'ng real pieces of good fortune. Of unheralded picks developing. Of crazy circumstances that lands them quality players.

This thread would be Dorion the Genius if from 2015-2020 a few extra picks hit.. one or two trades hit. Some goalie you never gave a second look too, becomes the next Martin Brodeur or Patrick Roy.

Ken Holland has ridden the last 20 years on that. Now he wants to stay long enough to get his son appointed to replace him in Edmonton. Glen Sather had a 20 year ride as well.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

No doubt about it that this was a risky signing, albeit a necessary one.
And so let's all pray it works out for us. It's could go either way.

But I swear to god people like to ignore what the obvious truth is. Dorion just told us flat out. There were good goalies available for trade - they just all had Ottawa on the NTC list....LOL. truth people. Dorion has to had to work with Melnyks and the Ottawa market working against him, and we still have delusional folks thinking they know so much better.

So this signing had to be made imo. Shrewd move. Let's hope it works out.

I think this could work out okay. I don't expect he'll be an indisputed number one, but if he can put up around 905-910 for the life of the deal and at least be a solid backup on the back half, it will be fine. We just can't have him crater and end up needing him off the team entirely.

there really cannot be.. It is the whole that dictates the action of any individual team.

the league is governed by the "hypothetical" mid team.. that 165 M generating team...

Now who cares if you are a powerhouse of the Sens/Red Wings/Sabers... you have to keep up... You need to generate close to 165 M... because you need to spend close to 165.

So now a poor product, but needing to generate 165 M, with zero choice.

welcome to pro sports...

Oh, ya I see why they don't I just think they should. There's no denying the on ice product takes a massive hit during a rebuild, but more so the guarantee that none of the games matter.

But maybe that's where spending 47 million during a rebuild season like we did is where the difference is made up.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

every GM lives in the "win the lottery world". It goes beyond winning the lottery, as in selecting first.

winning the lottery in pro sports is "f***ing good luck".. it is Tom Brady as a 198 or 199 pick and becoming the goat. Then you have 21 years in New England with Belichik the genius..

It is Daniel Alfredson and being a sixth rounder.

GMs live and die, gain insane reputations on the backs of; 1-5 un f'ng real pieces of good fortune. Of unheralded picks developing. Of crazy circumstances that lands them quality players.

This thread would be Dorion the Genius if from 2015-2020 a few extra picks hit.. one or two trades hit. Some goalie you never gave a second look too, becomes the next Martin Brodeur or Patrick Roy.

Ken Holland has ridden the last 20 years on that. Now he wants to stay long enough to get his son appointed to replace him in Edmonton. Glen Sather had a 20 year ride as well.

Well obviously the high picks matter, but so does filling out the roster effectively, whether through other picks or outside additions. Ironically, if our picks had hit, we might have ended up with worse players potentially like Lafreniere instead of Stutzle.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

I'd go after Max Comtois if we move on from Debrincat; obviously not to replace his production but only to round out the teams bottom-6.

 

[Samsquanch]

every GM lives in the "win the lottery world". It goes beyond winning the lottery, as in selecting first.

winning the lottery in pro sports is "f***ing good luck".. it is Tom Brady as a 198 or 199 pick and becoming the goat. Then you have 21 years in New England with Belichik the genius..

It is Daniel Alfredson and being a sixth rounder.

GMs live and die, gain insane reputations on the backs of; 1-5 un f'ng real pieces of good fortune. Of unheralded picks developing. Of crazy circumstances that lands them quality players.

This thread would be Dorion the Genius if from 2015-2020 a few extra picks hit.. one or two trades hit. Some goalie you never gave a second look too, becomes the next Martin Brodeur or Patrick Roy.

Ken Holland has ridden the last 20 years on that. Now he wants to stay long enough to get his son appointed to replace him in Edmonton. Glen Sather had a 20 year ride as well.

There's such a thing as luck for sure. And I agree with just about everything you wrote.

But there are certain times in GMs careers that they HAVE to get it right. And Dorion has done enough to say that he's done a pretty good job, all things considered (Melnyk and Ottawa market handicaps).

He had to get the Karlsson trade right, and he luckily hit a grandslam - enough to recover from the loss of the Stone trade - another must win. I take Tim Stutzle alone over EK and Stone, never mind Norris making it a landslide win. This is going forward of course.

But he HAD to get the Stutzle and Sanderson and Tkatchuk picks right. And he did. We don't give enough credit for him setting this franchise up beautifully for the next decade, regardless of whether or not he's around or the rest of his moves pay off.

Franchises can spend a whole generation looking for these kind of players to anchor their team at those key positions - and lead by the highest example. Happy and enthusiastic to be here and be the leaders of the team. I count Chabot in this group too, fwiw.

Point being is that too many people like to ignore how lucky we are to not be like Montreal, who's picked even higher over this same time span, and got a laughably bad return by comparison. Again I probably take Stutzle alone over all three of their top picks.

It was never a given that we were gonna land 3 key franchise building blocks with our 3 top 5 picks my people. But we did. That's pretty impressive given the uncertainty of the draft today folks. Any one of those 3 picks missing would have been a massive blow this teams future. And those picks were all surrounded by some big misses at their drafts - picture it like a game of minesweeper that Dorion clearly won.

 

[Bubbles]

Hey Ottawa fans, Canucks fan here, don't kill me!

I'm from BC and do some amateur scouting. Seems like you guys like taking BCHL guys (Dyck, Stanley and Beckner). Does anyone know the name of your BCHL/Western scouts? Thanks.

 

[Emerica]

Hey Ottawa fans, Canucks fan here, don't kill me!

I'm from BC and do some amateur scouting. Seems like you guys like taking BCHL guys (Dyck, Stanley and Beckner). Does anyone know the name of your BCHL/Western scouts? Thanks.

Not 100% sure but i think George Fargher is the western scout

 

[KingAlfie11]

Hard to blame them. Very confusing day over there.

But I thought Yzerman was the best GM in the entire universe?

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

But I thought Yzerman was the best GM in the entire universe?

I couldn't say, you'll have to ask other people who thought that.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

 

[Big Muddy]

Dorion said here that Korpisalo was the number #1 target. His reference to goalies that were not available because of NTC were trade scenarios versus free agents.

 

[JD1]

What's with the comment on the other teams not being ready to pay the term the Sens were willing to pay.

As seemingly a reason DeBrincat wasn't interested in that team.

I thought he wanted UFA .. that would mean less term is good

So He just doesn't want term with Ottawa but Term with another team that's fine.

Dorion saying staying 1 year is ok. Not sure how he squares that.

I think what it means is Dorion lands on a trade that works then grants interest to speak to the DeBrincat camp. Once those talks begin it seems the teams speaking to him aren't interested in 7 or 8 year deals whereas Dorion has expressed interest in signing him to 8 years.

Must be humbling for DeBrincat

 

[Mingus Dew]

I think what it means is Dorion lands on a trade that works then grants interest to speak to the DeBrincat camp. Once those talks begin it seems the teams speaking to him aren't interested in 7 or 8 year deals whereas Dorion has expressed interest in signing him to 8 years.

Must be humbling for DeBrincat

It’s a convenient way to shift the narrative but it doesn’t make much sense. DeBrincat shouldn’t want a long term deal, at least logically.

 

[JD1]

It’s a convenient way to shift the narrative but it doesn’t make much sense. DeBrincat shouldn’t want a long term deal, at least logically.

What?

He's looking for his 7 or 8 year deal. Probably bonus money, front loaded, trade protection styled contract but he's not generating any interest in teams willing to sign that type of deal with him

 

[BondraTime]

It’s a convenient way to shift the narrative but it doesn’t make much sense. DeBrincat shouldn’t want a long term deal, at least logically.

The only reason that a contract extension is being talked about is that that’s what Ottawa would prefer.

DBC, in all likelihood, never wanted to sign a long term deal with anyone aside from a team he really wanted to go with, for a contract he wants.

It seems he’s not getting that kind of contract from teams he doesn’t want to go to in the first place.

Whether he wants to risk going to UFA and taking his chances, or sign a shorter term deal for less money than he and his agent were thinking is the issue now in my opinion.

 

[Mingus Dew]

What?

He's looking for his 7 or 8 year deal. Probably bonus money, front loaded, trade protection styled contract but he's not generating any interest in teams willing to sign that type of deal with him

Before this we heard he’s looking to walk to UFA and is really only interested in signing long term in one of his dream destinations, like Detroit.

He’s coming off his worst year and it’s a stagnant cap year with 2024 due for a sizeable increase. Makes way more sense to test UFA no?

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

It’s a convenient way to shift the narrative but it doesn’t make much sense. DeBrincat shouldn’t want a long term deal, at least logically.

I think its spin .. A long term deal conflicts with one chance to test free agency. It looked like a tough sell to move him all along .

 

[JungleBeat]

Dorion buttering up the fans with excuses.

 

[Beech]

Doing a real quick review of the league. Only these GMs are close to earning: elite status

and this is based upon a body of work, where they succeeded, either at several stops or in one city, but on several occasions

1) Jim Nill Dallas. Several rebuilds.. fairly consistent success
2) Vegas ; George McPhee....2 teams, 2 sets of very successful periods
3) David Poile..2 teams, 2 sets of successful periods

honorable mentions:
Jim Rutherford
Don Waddell
Doug Armstrong

Poile is retired, Mcphee is POHO and Mcrimmon is officially the GM... although?????? Rutherford is also a POHO.

so as of now, 5 guys are working in Hockey ops, with what I consider to be elite ranking.

Sweet Lou??? Take a look at pre Marty, during Marty and after Marty.

Take it easy of Pierre.. he is one of 27.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Maybe he should have talked to DBC about free agency only coming around once, before trading for him.

 

[aragorn]

Maybe players don't want to talk to GMs about their future intentions because it would hurt their potential earning outcomes? Would it surprise anyone if agents are telling their players not to communicate with GMs about what their future plans are?

We hear it all the time now, they love where they are, but they leave all of the negotiations regarding their careers & incomes to their agents which is what they get paid for. The agents will know in advance exactly what their players want in terms of where they want to play, how much they think they can make & what the term is they think their player can get.

Winning the Stanley Cup seems to have taken a back seat for some players when earning as much as you can, for as long as you can, becomes more of a priority. Especially as they get older, unless of course they are star players who have already earned plenty of money.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

...more on Explaining moving DeBrincat ... the thread

 

[Gil Gunderson]

You have to at least admit, Dorion immediately getting into a cap crunch after finally being able to spend to the cap as a non-playoff team is pretty funny.