Management GM Pierre Dorion/Front Office Thread - Part IX [Mod Warning in post 1)

[swiftwin]

And it went against what he said before the season. Weird how after his preseason statements prove to not be accurate, he changes the narrative,eh?

Which preseason are you talking about? I posted his end of season presser from the 2020-21 season, where he says he wouldn't make a big splash for the following season, saying "At some point at time, when we feel we're ready to win, we might have to package a pick or a prospect to make that next step". and later says "At some point and time, we might have to do that, I don't think we're there yet".

He signaled BEFORE the 2021-22 season that it was likely to be another "development year".

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

What's he going to pull off at the draft this year? Right now most of us are hoping he doesn't take too much of a hit on what he pulled off last year.

 

[Knave]

Almost everything we've seen so far in this rebuild has been telegraphed by Dorion years in advance, if you're actually paying attention.

LMAO.

Yes. I'm sure approaching a top 20 historic playoff drought is going exactly to plan, telegraphed years in advance.

If that's the case we need to assume another franchise is paying Dorion under the table to make sure the Senators f***ing suck.

 

[Beech]

First of all, I'm not the one who brought up the cap floor argument.

My argument is simply that we brought in those players that offseason because they were good pros that would help develop our young players. If we got more wins because of those players, then that's a bonus, but that's not the core reason we brought them in.

Also, that Dorion presser is relevant because he didn't just say this was his goal in 2020-21, but that it was also going to be his goal in the following season.

2018-2020: Teardown and tank
2020-2022: Focus on development of young players
2022-present: Focus on actually winning and making the playoffs

sadly hockey ops and Marketing/Sales are inseparable. And even worse, in pro sports, Marketing and Sales over-rule.

It is impossible to ever stand up as professional team and remotely suggest your team will not win, will experience a down period or "re-build".. Should a Hockey ops person suggest a down period, or suggest a down period time, the marketing exec's will darn near kill him/them.

Stand up and say a 5 year re-build. And fans will say; I will see you in 5 years... Great, how do you pay bills?

And so, per script, we were given ambiguous statements, declarations.. meant to ensure we have dollar in hand and at the ticket office.. or beer in hand and in-front of our TV/Laptop/phone or at our favorite bar.

All the while, they re-build, hope for rosy scenarios. Players develop quicker, bargain finds end up as gems and so on.

Unfortunately for this team, that dumb luck; cheap find becoming a gem never happened.. some early draft picks (L brown, Collin white, JBD, Lassie T.) did not develop.. that meant, the original 5 years, was going to be the final schedule. And so, 5 years of hand waving, of slogans of "hees and haws"..

An Ottawa with a massive corporate base, willing to buy 15,000 season tickets and give them out, regardless of team shape. Does not exist. And so, Marketing has to over-rule hockey ops and put them in a difficult position.

that has been Ottawa 2017/2018 to 2022/2023.

 

[swiftwin]

LMAO.

Yes. I'm sure approaching a top 20 historic playoff drought is going exactly to plan, telegraphed years in advance.

If that's the case we need to assume another franchise is paying Dorion under the table to make sure the Senators f***ing suck.

Yes it is.

It seems that you haven't figured out the concept of "delayed gratification". You know... the test they give to toddlers, where you give then a marshmallow, and if they don't eat it for 15 mins, they get another marshmallow. You're the kid that eats the marshmallow right off the bat.

 

[Knave]

Yes it is.

It seems that you haven't figured out the concept of "delayed gratification". You know... the test they give to toddlers, where you give then a marshmallow, and if they don't eat it for 15 mins, they get another marshmallow. You're the kid that eats the marshmallow right off the bat.

At what point will you change your mind? A top 15 historic drought? Top 10? Top 5? Number 1? Thankfully none of those are options because he will be fired within a few months of the new owner taking over.

 

[swiftwin]

At what point will you change your mind? A top 15 historic drought? Top 10? Top 5? Number 1? Thankfully none of those are options because he will be fired within a few months of the new owner taking over.

If we don't make the playoffs next year, then yes, Dorion absolutely should be on the hot seat. The rebuild has progressed nicely. Last season was a continued big step in the right direction. We need another step in the right direction next year.

Also, Dorion will not get fired within a few months of the new owner , that's complete nonsense.

 

[Golden_Jet]

At what point will you change your mind? A top 15 historic drought? Top 10? Top 5? Number 1? Thankfully none of those are options because he will be fired within a few months of the new owner taking over.

Your top 20 is hilarious,
First 50 years , 2 teams missed playoffs, then expansion, then 4 missed playoffs, then got to 21 teams , 5 teams missed playoffs.

Do you have any other funny stories, that don’t tell the whole story.

 

[Micklebot]

We definitly didn’t meet expectations in terms of how Daddy or Murray performed that’s for sure, and if they had we would have surly had some more wins (but not close to playoffs).

This part is interesting, we were 8 pts behind MTL for the last spot. How many pts back would we have been if instead of an .893 sv%, Murray had something closer to what you'd expect from the 7th highest cap hit in the league? For reference, the top 10 in sv% were all at .918 or better. A .918 sv% would have meant 19 fewer goals in Murray's 27 games that year. Even his career average of .910 would have been 13 fewer.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Dude, I wasn’t trashing you, or anyone. Being a fan is a personal thing with personal goals.

I agree with your point on basketball rebuilding which is why I said it. Fans usually don’t have to go through protracted rebuild periods, especially fans of the big teams that live in the luxury tax area, so it’s a much more rewarding sport to be a fan of if you hate rebuilds. Not knocking you or anyone at all.

My point was to highlight the differences between two groups of fans, not rank or rate them, and how they can diverge during a long rebuild and reconnect during the good times.

You‘re the one claiming the last 5 years sucked for you, and I’m cool with that, it explains a lot in terms of patience levels and points of view. People who have found a way to enjoy the process should also be afforded the space to have reasonable takes given their different perspective.

Make no mistake, being a hard core
fan of any stripe is a colossal waste of time, emotion, and money in my opinion, and I am
one. We seem to need the escapism, and the soap opera, and life is short, so whatever!

I’ll be very clear to you if/when I decide to trash you man.

Ya sorry I didn't mean it like you were trashing me, I meant it like it seemed like you'd responded as if I was using my post to trash Dorion or something. Just seemed to go somewhere I hadn't, but all good.

Of course we're all allowed to have our own appetites for a rebuild, and while I made my personal opinion known, I'm not telling anyone else how to feel about it. I was referring to the organizational perspective and general fan consensus that it seems like you do agree with. They're tough for most. All but the diehards stop paying attention. The media sort of puts you on the sidelines. You're often a punching bag on the ice even if there is positive development. There's a lot of lean years for interest, revenue and attendance and I can understand why some teams just don't want to go there. The fact that there's no guarantee it works out makes it even tougher. My comment about Ottawa not winning a cup wasn't meant to troll, it's just the statistical likelihood if we're honest with ourselves. Chances are we're more likely to be rebuilding again than hoisting a cup, unfortunately.

I also think people are getting ahead of themselves with Calgary a bit and always sparks a reply from me. Just my opinion. They're a year removed from a very successful year and have an entirely new regime. They are in a better position than we were when we rebuilt, imo, because I think their assets that are movable are more desirable, and the ones they will be left to work with are of much higher quality. They also have a few young guys pushing to make the team that they can plug in. I'm optimistic that it's not as dark there as it appears. I think Vancouver is in much worse shape from an assets to make something happen without rebuilding point of view.

 

[Golden_Jet]

This part is interesting, we were 8 pts behind MTL for the last spot. How many pts back would we have been if instead of an .893 sv%, Murray had something closer to what you'd expect from the 7th highest cap hit in the league? For reference, the top 10 in sv% were all at .918 or better. A .918 sv% would have meant 19 fewer goals in Murray's 27 games that year. Even his career average of .910 would have been 13 fewer.

Only done once in the league history

for the last “Play-in” round spot, to then try and win to get to the round of 16.

So ya even sucked then as well.

 

[Ice-Tray]

This part is interesting, we were 8 pts behind MTL for the last spot. How many pts back would we have been if instead of an .893 sv%, Murray had something closer to what you'd expect from the 7th highest cap hit in the league? For reference, the top 10 in sv% were all at .918 or better. A .918 sv% would have meant 19 fewer goals in Murray's 27 games that year. Even his career average of .910 would have been 13 fewer.

Uhg, Murray…. Imagine he was able to play a full starters stretch of game?!?

Ah well.

Ya sorry I didn't mean it like you were trashing me, I meant it like it seemed like you'd responded as if I was using my post to trash Dorion or something. Just seemed to go somewhere I hadn't, but all good.

Of course we're all allowed to have our own appetites for a rebuild, and while I made my personal opinion known, I'm not telling anyone else how to feel about it. I was referring to the organizational perspective and general fan consensus that it seems like you do agree with. They're tough for most. All but the diehards stop paying attention. The media sort of puts you on the sidelines. You're often a punching bag on the ice even if there is positive development. There's a lot of lean years for interest, revenue and attendance and I can understand why some teams just don't want to go there. The fact that there's no guarantee it works out makes it even tougher. My comment about Ottawa not winning a cup wasn't meant to troll, it's just the statistical likelihood if we're honest with ourselves. Chances are we're more likely to be rebuilding again than hoisting a cup, unfortunately.

I also think people are getting ahead of themselves with Calgary a bit and always sparks a reply from me. Just my opinion. They're a year removed from a very successful year and have an entirely new regime. They are in a better position than we were when we rebuilt, imo, because I think their assets that are movable are more desirable, and the ones they will be left to work with are of much higher quality. They also have a few young guys pushing to make the team that they can plug in. I'm optimistic that it's not as dark there as it appears. I think Vancouver is in much worse shape from an assets to make something happen without rebuilding point of view.

It’s all good man

We’re all gonna be stoked come the start of the season I think!

I agree about Van, and they have a problem owner to boot.

As for Calgary, lots can happen but right now it looks like the should have made the decision to rebuild last year to maximize what they could do. it will be a tough stretch right now to right the ship.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Uhg, Murray…. Imagine he was able to play a full starters stretch of game?!?

Ah well.

He does though ,
he just uses “dog years” when counting.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Uhg, Murray…. Imagine he was able to play a full starters stretch of game?!?

Ah well.

What I don't get is how he's so fragile in general. Like, it's not one thing, it's a whole bunch of them. It always seems to be something different, but somehow he pulls it off one after another.

 

[Micklebot]

Only done once in the league history

for the last “Play-in” round spot, to then try and win to get to the round of 16.

So ya even sucked then as well.

You seem to be thinking of 2019-20, there was no play in round in 2020-21, 4 teams from each division made it.

Hers the thing, we bought out Ryan, and signed Dadonov, you've be rewriting history since the start of this conversation, fist saying we needed to hit the cap floor with those pickups, we didn't, now saying it was the playin round we were 8 pts out from, it wasn't,

This was the year where the purse strings opened up, there was a clear change in expectations, and Dorion's moves telegraphed it.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Uhg, Murray…. Imagine he was able to play a full starters stretch of game?!?

Ah well.


It’s all good man

We’re all gonna be stoked come the start of the season I think!

I agree about Van, and they have a problem owner to boot.

As for Calgary, lots can happen but right now it looks like the should have made the decision to rebuild last year to maximize what they could do. it will be a tough stretch right now to right the ship.

I can agree with that. I actually hadn't seen the news about the trio not re-signing until after this back and forth.

With that, yes, they absolutely should have used the Tkachuk return as currency over re-signing. They'd be laughing right now with at least 3 1sts +++ from that alone if they'd gone that route. Plus everything else they have to sell off.

 

[Ice-Tray]

What I don't get is how he's so fragile in general. Like, it's not one thing, it's a whole bunch of them. It always seems to be something different, but somehow he pulls it off one after another.

and then he seemed to dodge playing us as well lol

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

and then he seemed to dodge playing us as well lol

Lol, ya that was probably somewhat predictable.

 

[Knave]

If we don't make the playoffs next year, then yes, Dorion absolutely should be on the hot seat. The rebuild has progressed nicely. Last season was a continued big step in the right direction. We need another step in the right direction next year.

Also, Dorion will not get fired within a few months of the new owner , that's complete nonsense.

Just on the hot seat?

31/31 other organizations would have fired him a year or two ago.



So the entire hockey world is wrong. The people who have lived and breathed hockey their entire lives.... wrong. A message board poster is right. Hopefully owners are scouting the boards.

 

[swiftwin]

Just on the hot seat?

31/31 other organizations would have fired him a year or two ago.



So the entire hockey world is wrong. The people who have lived and breathed hockey their entire lives.... wrong. A message board poster is right. Hopefully owners are scouting the boards.

The entire hockey works agrees that the Sens' rebuild is progressing nicely. You're the one who's claiming the entire hockey world is wrong here.

 

[Knave]

The entire hockey works agrees that the Sens' rebuild is progressing nicely. You're the one who's claiming the entire hockey world is wrong here.

The Ottawa Senators media and others who pay no attention to Ottawa give vague praise and hope to a fanbase.

The serious journalists and people in hockey circles are not talking about how great things are in Ottawa under Pierre Dorion.

 

[Ice-Tray]

The Ottawa Senators media and others who pay no attention to Ottawa give vague praise and hope to a fanbase.

The serious journalists and people in hockey circles are not talking about how great things are in Ottawa under Pierre Dorion.

Those sounds like really interesting articles, can you post a few links?

 

[swiftwin]

The Ottawa Senators media and others who pay no attention to Ottawa give vague praise and hope to a fanbase.

The serious journalists and people in hockey circles are not talking about how great things are in Ottawa under Pierre Dorion.

...and are these "journalists" in the same room as us right now?

 

[Golden_Jet]

The Ottawa Senators media and others who pay no attention to Ottawa give vague praise and hope to a fanbase.

The serious journalists and people in hockey circles are not talking about how great things are in Ottawa under Pierre Dorion.

Do you have a link to these serious journalists, other you mentioned,
I always like reading all opinions.

You seem to be thinking of 2019-20, there was no play in round in 2020-21, 4 teams from each division made it.

Hers the thing, we bought out Ryan, and signed Dadonov, you've be rewriting history since the start of this conversation, fist saying we needed to hit the cap floor with those pickups, we didn't, now saying it was the playin round we were 8 pts out from, it wasn't,

This was the year where the purse strings opened up, there was a clear change in expectations, and Dorion's moves telegraphed it.

Ya, screwed up with the damn Covid years, play-ins, all Canadian divisions

 

[Bileur]

Post Dorion Habs

Lol. To be fair I think the Habs first round history just sucks overall for as long as I can remember.