Management GM Pierre Dorion/Front Office Thread - Part IX [Mod Warning in post 1)

[DueDiligence]

This is a reason why I don't think Andlauer is going to fire Dorion right away.

If he fires Dorion and the team does poorly next year, it's a really bad first impression for Andlauer. If he doesn't fire him and the team does poorly, then he can fire him and declare a fresh start the following year. If he doesn't fire him, and the team does well, then all is good and he doesn't need to fire him.

Andlauer is still a relatively young owner at 57. He could own the team a minimum 15 years which means he won't act too quickly because he doesn't need to. I am sure he has a plan for long term success which means putting the right building blocks in place for the long run.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

This is a reason why I don't think Andlauer is going to fire Dorion right away.

If he fires Dorion and the team does poorly next year, it's a really bad first impression for Andlauer. If he doesn't fire him and the team does poorly, then he can fire him and declare a fresh start the following year. If he doesn't fire him, and the team does well, then all is good and he doesn't need to fire him.

With him not taking control of the team until September .. its very likely both Dorion and DJ remain for another kick at the cat.
I think he will slowly start bringing in his people without replacing Dorion. I think its likely both will be in their last year.

 

[bert]

This is a reason why I don't think Andlauer is going to fire Dorion right away.

If he fires Dorion and the team does poorly next year, it's a really bad first impression for Andlauer. If he doesn't fire him and the team does poorly, then he can fire him and declare a fresh start the following year. If he doesn't fire him, and the team does well, then all is good and he doesn't need to fire him.

If Alfie is involved he's a gonner. I also don't think a new owner taking over a team is anything like a new GM. The owner isn't going anywhere you own the team no one can fire you. A new GM only has so many bullets he can use. Keefe has also had success and has a good resume. Dorion has not.

 

[bert]

I think you are a little over the top with calling Treliving "pretty great". His contract to Huberdeau could turn out to be terrible. Same with Kadri. The Flames are an old team with no real blue chip youngsters on their current NHL roster. Not sure how he will make out in Toronto other than giving Matthews a 5 year $14 million per year deal.

Huberdeau just came off a 111 point season. Look what he got for a player that wanted out. Look what Dorion has got in comparison. I'd take him any day here.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Huberdeau just came off a 111 point season. Look what he got for a player that wanted out. Look what Dorion has got in comparison. I'd take him any day here.

Treliving made a splashy move to appease the fanbase and blew his wad overpaying for a player through his 30-38 year seasons, to show that someone would sign in Calgary. "Look at what I got for a player who wanted out!" Huberdeau is now an anchor contract. They would have been better off acquiring some of the younger, cheaper players who were "rumored" to be offered (like Necas).

He did the same thing with Kadri to "replace" Gaudreau. That's also a bad contract, after year one.

It was splashy, but not the right move for that team. Kind of the same thing Dorion did with Debrincat. It got headlines, sure. But it was a poorly thought out move, in hindsight.

With that said, yes, I'd much rather Treliving than Dorion. At the very least he seems to treat people and players well.

 

[bert]

Treliving made a splashy move to appease the fanbase and blew his wad overpaying for a player through his 30-38 year seasons, to show that someone would sign in Calgary. "Look at what I got for a player who wanted out!" Huberdeau is now an anchor contract. They would have been better off acquiring some of the younger, cheaper players who were "rumored" to be offered (like Necas).

He did the same thing with Kadri to "replace" Gaudreau. That's also a bad contract, after year one.

It was splashy, but not the right move for that team. Kind of the same thing Dorion did with Debrincat. It got headlines, sure. But it was a poorly thought out move, in hindsight.

With that said, yes, I'd much rather Treliving than Dorion. At the very least he seems to treat people and players well.

Let's see how they all do without Sutter as the coach. He literally played Huberdeau out of position. Listen to the interviews of Calgarys players.... Players don't just forget how to play. You conveniently ommited Weegar who is a great player and was amazing in the second half once he got used to his surroundings. You also forgot the 1st round pick and Cole Schwimd. It was an amazing value deal for a player leaving. Looking forward to re visiting this post. In comparison Ottawa got Brannstrom and a 2nd for an extended Stone.

 

[bicboi64]

People will criticize the contracts, but that was an absolute haul. If they'd moved Hubs and Weegar they could have easily had 3 1sts, Schmaltz +++

Pretty much this. If it wasn't random loyalty to Sutter, they could've just held tight to see how their acquisitions were and done a major retool at the deadline by moving Huberdeau & Weegar, or sign Huberdeau to a better deal assuming he doesn't produce that much while playing with the Flames.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Let's see how they all do without Sutter as the coach. He literally played Huberdeau out of position. Listen to the interviews of Calgarys players.... Players don't just forget how to play. You conveniently ommited Weegar who is a great player and was amazing in the second half once he got used to his surroundings. You also forgot the 1st round pick and Cole Schwimd. It was an amazing value deal for a player leaving. Looking forward to re visiting this post. In comparison Ottawa got Brannstrom and a 2nd for an extended Stone.

Or you could try comparing it to a the EK trade instead of taking his best trade and comparing to PD’s worst,

This forum cracks me up sometimes.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Given Tkachuk's ability to walk to UFA in a year and the limited destinations he would sign long-term with, the fact Treliving was able to return a guy with 115 points, a top 4 D with 44 points and a 2025 1st from a team that seemingly destroyed it's future by going all-in in 2021/22, is nothing short of insane.

We're up against a similar wall with DeBrincat that kind of return would be the equivalent of us trading him to Pittsburgh with an extension for Guentzel, Pettersson and a 1st.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

If Alfie is involved he's a gonner. I also don't think a new owner taking over a team is anything like a new GM. The owner isn't going anywhere you own the team no one can fire you. A new GM only has so many bullets he can use. Keefe has also had success and has a good resume. Dorion has not.

Alfie is no idiot. He will not be a negative Nelly if he is looking for a job.

Dorion will be kept for a while

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Pretty much this. If it wasn't random loyalty to Sutter, they could've just held tight to see how their acquisitions were and done a major retool at the deadline by moving Huberdeau & Weegar, or sign Huberdeau to a better deal assuming he doesn't produce that much while playing with the Flames.

Absolutely. They may have misplayed the hand a bit, but they were dealt a royal flush compared to most trades. Bonkers value had they chosen to sell off those two guys and add it to the 1st + Schwindt, or some other plan of attack.

I'm not looking to use this to slam Dorion here, but compare that to the Stone trade where he was also extended. Granted Tkachuk was younger, but it's not even in the ballpark, even with Brannstrom still having value at the time. Just the 1st + Schwindt is more like what we received.

Ftr though, I think Calgary is going to bounce back pretty well and are well positioned for a solid re-tool over a rebuild. Their guys all pretty much still have value individually imo, other than maybe Hubs and Kadri because of the contracts and down years.

 

[lancepitlick]

If Alfie is involved he's a gonner. I also don't think a new owner taking over a team is anything like a new GM. The owner isn't going anywhere you own the team no one can fire you. A new GM only has so many bullets he can use. Keefe has also had success and has a good resume. Dorion has not.

I have to agree. Andlauer doesn't have to worry about optics that much. If he cans Dorion and brings in a new guy in September I think it'll be pretty hard to place any blame on him for a season where the GM missed out on free agency, the draft, and the entire offseason.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I wonder if the new ownership will consider what the players want before cleaning house. Lots of talk of people staying and firing everyone for ‘reasons’, not much talk of what the players may or may not want.

This is not a group that has disappointed, or underperformed in general so it makes me wonder If what they want may be taken into consideration.

 

[bert]

Alfie is no idiot. He will not be a negative Nelly if he is looking for a job.

Dorion will be kept for a while

Book marked. Dorion along with Melnyk essentially forced him out years ago. Why do you think he left. Can't wait to re visit this one.

 

[JD1]

Book marked. Dorion along with Melnyk essentially forced him out years ago. Why do you think he left. Can't wait to re visit this one.

Why did he come back last year?

 

[Loach]

Book marked. Dorion along with Melnyk essentially forced him out years ago. Why do you think he left. Can't wait to re visit this one.

If Alfie and Staios become management Dorion could be kept in the daycare, with a toy phone to "make all the trades". Lol

 

[bert]

Why did he come back last year?

The main reason he left was no longer around.

 

[DueDiligence]

Huberdeau just came off a 111 point season. Look what he got for a player that wanted out. Look what Dorion has got in comparison. I'd take him any day here.

Treliving got 2 players with 1 year left on their contracts and signed them both to massive deals that are are certainly looking bad. He let Johnny Gaudreau walk for nothing. I'd say he's an average GM.

 

[Beech]

Treliving got 2 players with 1 year left on their contracts and signed them both to massive deals that are are certainly looking bad. He let Johnny Gaudreau walk for nothing. I'd say he's an average GM.

by 2024/2025:
Hubbie will be 32, making 10.5 and have 7 more years
Kadri will be 34 making 7 and have 5 more years
Blake Coleman will be 33 making 4.9 and have 3 more years

weeger will be 31 making 6.25 and have 7 more years

Jacob Mark will be 35 making 6 and have 2 more years

approximately 35 million a year for 5 players, aged 31 and older and on average have 4.5 years left.

They had better rebound next year and win a cup next year. Because in 2 years and moving outwards... Ouch. On a bright note, He will leave them a lottery team for the next 7 years. Spending to the cap, unable to rebuild, because good luck in dumping these contracts.

Thank you Brad and thank you Toronto. Hopefully Brad does the same in TO.. One less competitor to deal with in the Atlantic.

 

[Masked]

Treliving got 2 players with 1 year left on their contracts and signed them both to massive deals that are are certainly looking bad. He let Johnny Gaudreau walk for nothing. I'd say he's an average GM.

The rumour is that Calgary's ownership won't allow a rebuild. If true, I'd cut him some slack since he couldn't peddle Gaudeau, Huberdeau and Weegar for future assets. That meant his only option was to sign whoever he could and Calgary's ownership gets what they deserve.

Assen na yo!

 

[Beech]

The rumour is that Calgary's ownership won't allow a rebuild. If true, I'd cut him some slack since he couldn't peddle Gaudeau, Huberdeau and Weegar for future assets. That meant his only option was to sign whoever he could and Calgary's ownership gets what they deserve.

Assen na yo!

2009/10-2012/13 out of the playoffs
2013/14- 2021/2022 8 seasons, 5 in , 3 out, 1 round won, Most years finished 13-17th overall.

when do you stop rebuilds? when do rebuilds end? when do you stop jumping into rebuilds?

Or is this a permanent cycle: hello Vancouver....

declare a rebuild, go into a 4-6 year tank, come-up for a bit of fresh air, not really achieve anything...declare another rebuild and back down.

Vancouver, Calgary, Ottawa, Montreal have been in 15 year rebuilds. With nothing more than a few gulps of fresh air in between.

When do teams enter Boston Bruins territory? 4-5 years of rebuild in 2002-2007 and 15 years of flying high since. Ditto for Pittsburgh. Ditto for LA and another 1/2 dozen teams.

Bad GMs, who are piss poor at their jobs. And then want to take a match to the old structure and build a new one. So that old mistakes are buried. All the while, the fans have to endure another 5-6 years of garabage.

 

[Ice-Tray]

2009/10-2012/13 out of the playoffs
2013/14- 2021/2022 8 seasons, 5 in , 3 out, 1 round won, Most years finished 13-17th overall.

when do you stop rebuilds? when do rebuilds end? when do you stop jumping into rebuilds?

Or is this a permanent cycle: hello Vancouver....

declare a rebuild, go into a 4-6 year tank, come-up for a bit of fresh air, not really achieve anything...declare another rebuild and back down.

Vancouver, Calgary, Ottawa, Montreal have been in 15 year rebuilds. With nothing more than a few gulps of fresh air in between.

When do teams enter Boston Bruins territory? 4-5 years of rebuild in 2002-2007 and 15 years of flying high since. Ditto for Pittsburgh. Ditto for LA and another 1/2 dozen teams.

Bad GMs, who are piss poor at their jobs. And then want to take a match to the old structure and build a new one. So that old mistakes are buried. All the while, the fans have to endure another 5-6 years of garabage.

15 year rebuild? No Beech.

What you watched was our last core cycle be a budget based team through its competitive window, so we never had the team we could have had.

That team needed blowing up for well documented reasons, one of which is that we weren’t allowed to spend more to make it better, or even retain our best players.

This core rebuild has been great, and the just when we have started to enter a competitive window with this group, the cause of the previous tight budgets up and died.

We now have a young team entering its competitive window, with the ability to be a cap team. We haven’t had that since the early 2000’s teams.

I know I’m excited to see us manage the cap ceiling instead of the cap floor while trying to win it all.

I really hope we see an attitude shift in here once Dorion is gone, because spending to the cap, and an awesome young team don’t seem to be enough to do it.

 

[bicboi64]

Absolutely. They may have misplayed the hand a bit, but they were dealt a royal flush compared to most trades. Bonkers value had they chosen to sell off those two guys and add it to the 1st + Schwindt, or some other plan of attack.

I'm not looking to use this to slam Dorion here, but compare that to the Stone trade where he was also extended. Granted Tkachuk was younger, but it's not even in the ballpark, even with Brannstrom still having value at the time. Just the 1st + Schwindt is more like what we received.

Ftr though, I think Calgary is going to bounce back pretty well and are well positioned for a solid re-tool over a rebuild. Their guys all pretty much still have value individually imo, other than maybe Hubs and Kadri because of the contracts and down years.

I dunno man, I feel like they'll be a first round exit team at best. Not enough elite guys that are young enough, and too many players approaching the wrong side of 30. Toffoli, Lindholm, Hanifin, Tanev and Zadarov all need new contracts and aren't worth what they'll ask for their last payday.

If CGY management still wants to be competitive and not do a rebuild and Cat would be okay with there, I would've loved it if we got some of their guys that could be signed to reasonable deals (Toffoli comes to mind).

 

[Beech]

15 year rebuild? No Beech.

What you watched was our last core cycle be a budget based team through its competitive window, so we never had the team we could have had.

That team needed blowing up for well documented reasons, one of which is that we weren’t allowed to spend more to make it better, or even retain our best players.

This core rebuild has been great, and the just when we have started to enter a competitive window with this group, the cause of the previous tight budgets up and died.

We now have a young team entering its competitive window, with the ability to be a cap team. We haven’t had that since the early 2000’s teams.

I know I’m excited to see us manage the cap ceiling instead of the cap floor while trying to win it all.

I really hope we see an attitude shift in here once Dorion is gone, because spending to the cap, and an awesome young team don’t seem to be enough to do it.

I hear you.. and yes, the Senators are different. A small market, that was financially hindered. SO, yes the 2012-2017 was a poor rebuild. Kinda of like building on a damaged foundation. So let's hope, it is now don right. And we spend the next 20 years, cycling up and down, in normal fashion, without hearing that "rebuild" word for a while

But BC, Calgary, Montreal... Treliving, Benning, Bergevin.... and I can add another 1/2 dozen names...

I had one guy on the Vancouver site argue a rebuild.. I wrote " you guys.. you are still in a rebuild..."(this was 3 years ago).. another poster pipes in.."No Benning did his job, he got the team into the playoffs. Now it has run its course" ...what????? Are you joking.. Vancouver since 2015/16, one season in. The crazy covid year, in the Edmonton Bubble. they win one round.. in a 5 round year. They beat teams that in any other season would not qualify. And declares Benning a success. The rebuild over and a new rebuild is needed..... HUH !!!

Edmonton, TO, Montreal, all have done similar.

REBUILD... it has become everyone's favorite word.. Woke has "bigot". Hockey has "rebuild"..

 

[Ice-Tray]

I hear you.. and yes, the Senators are different. A small market, that was financially hindered. SO, yes the 2012-2017 was a poor rebuild. Kinda of like building on a damaged foundation. So let's hope, it is now don right. And we spend the next 20 years, cycling up and down, in normal fashion, without hearing that "rebuild" word for a while

But BC, Calgary, Montreal... Treliving, Benning, Bergevin.... and I can add another 1/2 dozen names...

I had one guy on the Vancouver site argue a rebuild.. I wrote " you guys.. you are still in a rebuild..."(this was 3 years ago).. another poster pipes in.."No Benning did his job, he got the team into the playoffs. Now it has run its course" ...what????? Are you joking.. Vancouver since 2015/16, one season in. The crazy covid year, in the Edmonton Bubble. they win one round.. in a 5 round year. They beat teams that in any other season would not qualify. And declares Benning a success. The rebuild over and a new rebuild is needed..... HUH !!!

Edmonton, TO, Montreal, all have done similar.

REBUILD... it has become everyone's favorite word.. Woke has "bigot". Hockey has "rebuild"..

Hahaha, yeah I hear you on Vancouver, though no one I talk to thinks this build has gone particularly well at all.

They also hate their owner. Go figure!