Management GM Pierre Dorion/Front Office Thread - Part IX [Mod Warning in post 1)

[stempniaksen]

Was Murray a bigger let down or Leclaire?

Murray was the bigger letdown but also more predictable. Higher ceiling/lower floor, but at least he managed to not get hurt sitting on the bench.

 

[BankStreetParade]

The way this board works sometimes is deeply, deeply stupid.

Some posters: "Maybe we should wait for a resolution to the Debrincat situation before we do a final assessment or grading of the move, as a whole?"
Others: "The pro-Dorion crowd will go to the ends of the Earth to carry water for this f***ing loser who's one of the worst GMs of all time!!"

 

[Beech]

The way this board works sometimes is deeply, deeply stupid.

Some posters: "Maybe we should wait for a resolution to the Debrincat situation before we do a final assessment or grading of the move, as a whole?"
Others: "The pro-Dorion crowd will go to the ends of the Earth to carry water for this f***ing loser who's one of the worst GMs of all time!!"

approximately all issues/people/subject matters will have ~ 20% ardent Pros, 20% ardent Nos and 60% middle.

It is only natural that the 20% on this side, fight with the 20% on that. For the middle 60%, they sit out.. and so, the picture that gets drawn is of one extreme and the another.

Pretty natural. No one attends a pro or anti abortion rally that is neutral or middle of the road on the subject. So we see screaming people, angry people, hatred, exaggeration, inflamed stances and actions. And all caused by about 40% of the total.

Dorion will not be fired, kept on, promoted or other, by what we say. It will be what Andlauer, et all say and feel.

If somehow Andlauer, et all are using this site as a polling/test medium.. Ohh f***. we got trouble.. What is that famous line "start listening to the fans and soon, you will be sitting with the fans".

this site is for us to talk shit, insult, get angry, vent, kill time, learn new things, be so sure that we are smart and everyone else is stupid. And, it also serves a good cause, it actually allows us to stay up to date on happenings.. Radio and TV are so failing us, this site is great.

Enjoy the site for what it is.. better than radio and TV.

 

[NyQuil]

this site is for us to talk shit, insult, get angry, vent, kill time, learn new things, be so sure that we are smart and everyone else is stupid. And, it also serves a good cause, it actually allows us to stay up to date on happenings.. Radio and TV are so failing us, this site is great.

Also @2CHAINZ.

 

[Beech]

Also @2CHAINZ.

huh!!!

 

[bert]

The way this board works sometimes is deeply, deeply stupid.

Some posters: "Maybe we should wait for a resolution to the Debrincat situation before we do a final assessment or grading of the move, as a whole?"
Others: "The pro-Dorion crowd will go to the ends of the Earth to carry water for this f***ing loser who's one of the worst GMs of all time!!"

Since you are such a superior thinker please enlighten us on how a message board should work. Should there be varying opinions? To debate? Do you even have an opinion? Or are you just here to put people down? Will you contribute anything of substance?

Deductive reasoning using past examples has overwhelming proof that a player on a longer contract with more team control returns more in a trade. Do you debate this fact? Is that what you are suggesting?

Using this commonly accepted knowledge there is a chance that Debrincat returns as much as the sens gave up if he is extended to the team he is traded to. However it is undeniable that Dorion has far less leverage as the player is refusing to extend. We have examples of other situations in recent history in this organization where Dorion has not faired out as well as we have all hoped in the Stone, Duchene and Hoffman deals. When he lacks leverage he hasnt faired as well as we collectively hoped. All of these past experiences has resulted in a healthy debate. However I guess you dont feel like its worth it. You'd simply rather call us all deeply stupid.

I truly hope they get a similar deal to the Fiala one. Lets see what he ends up getting.

 

[R2010]

Was Murray a bigger let down or Leclaire?

Murray. For sure. I liked Leclaire as a person and when he got a decent chance to play for a bit he looked real good. With Murray it seemed like he needed to be perfect health to play. For Leclaire he was just so unbelievably unlucky.

 

[NyQuil]

With Murray it seemed like he needed to be perfect health to play. For Leclaire he was just so unbelievably unlucky.

Murray also vocally expressed that the team was letting him down during a period where he was letting in a stinker per game minimum.

 

[BankStreetParade]

approximately all issues/people/subject matters will have ~ 20% ardent Pros, 20% ardent Nos and 60% middle.

It is only natural that the 20% on this side, fight with the 20% on that. For the middle 60%, they sit out.. and so, the picture that gets drawn is of one extreme and the another.

Pretty natural. No one attends a pro or anti abortion rally that is neutral or middle of the road on the subject. So we see screaming people, angry people, hatred, exaggeration, inflamed stances and actions. And all caused by about 40% of the total.

Dorion will not be fired, kept on, promoted or other, by what we say. It will be what Andlauer, et all say and feel.

If somehow Andlauer, et all are using this site as a polling/test medium.. Ohh f***. we got trouble.. What is that famous line "start listening to the fans and soon, you will be sitting with the fans".

this site is for us to talk shit, insult, get angry, vent, kill time, learn new things, be so sure that we are smart and everyone else is stupid. And, it also serves a good cause, it actually allows us to stay up to date on happenings.. Radio and TV are so failing us, this site is great.

Enjoy the site for what it is.. better than radio and TV.

I believe this is called "both sides-ing" the issue. Taking an unreasonable, opposite reaction to a reasonable point of discussion is not a real discussion. A roided out MMA junkie podcaster who spreads vaccine conspiracies wanting to "debate" the efficacy and science of vaccines with a vaccinologist shouldn't be seen as the normal rational course of action to settle that "debate". Neither is the unrelenting negativity of a group of people who instinctively believe every single thing we see - with our own eyes, btw - should be viewed negatively and in the most disparaging terms possible to select individuals within the organization. I'm not forced to debate idiotic opinions but I'm happy to point out how stupid they are when I see them.

 

[Beech]

I believe this is called "both sides-ing" the issue. Taking an unreasonable, opposite reaction to a reasonable point of discussion is not a real discussion. A roided out MMA junkie podcaster who spreads vaccine conspiracies wanting to "debate" the efficacy and science of vaccines with a vaccinologist shouldn't be seen as the normal rational course of action to settle that "debate". Neither is the unrelenting negativity of a group of people who instinctively believe every single thing we see - with our own eyes, btw - should be viewed negatively and in the most disparaging terms possible to select individuals within the organization. I'm not forced to debate idiotic opinions but I'm happy to point out how stupid they are when I see them.

and the other side, will argue the same about you Bankstreet..

WAR bankstreet WAR. We Are Right.. it is how life works.. we are right, the other person is wrong. We are reasonable, the other person is not. We are kind, the other person in mean. and so on.

WAR.. it literally leads to war!!! Hello Putin.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I'm not forced to debate idiotic opinions but I'm happy to point out how stupid they are when I see them.

yep and sometimes your on the wrong side of the fence, but in your mind there is only one side.
A lot of the time the truth lies in the middle.
Saying opinions are idiotic or stupid is not a debate, it’s more like a cop out.

 

[JD1]

yep and sometimes your on the wrong side of the fence, but in your mind there is only one side.
A lot of the time the truth lies in the middle.
Saying opinions are idiotic or stupid is not a debate, it’s more like a cop out.

Everyone has opinions and everyone is entitled to their opinion. I enjoy reading people's opinions and having discussion

I don't really like opinions expressed as fact and I really don't like factual statements that are factually incorrect when the statement's intent is to criticize. I encountered the latter yesterday. Factual statement made. Link posted establishing factual statement incorrect. Double down on the incorrect statement. A specific invitation to read the link provided. Zero. Nada. Zilch. No oops, I got that one wrong. No acknowledgement. Just on to the next complaint.

As for opinions, we're all wrong on here from time to time with our opinions. That's reality.

 

[NyQuil]

Treliving is a bit of a genius in keeping Keefe around.

It gives him someone to fire next year that isn't himself.

 

[bert]

Everyone has opinions and everyone is entitled to their opinion. I enjoy reading people's opinions and having discussion

I don't really like opinions expressed as fact and I really don't like factual statements that are factually incorrect when the statement's intent is to criticize. I encountered the latter yesterday. Factual statement made. Link posted establishing factual statement incorrect. Double down on the incorrect statement. A specific invitation to read the link provided. Zero. Nada. Zilch. No oops, I got that one wrong. No acknowledgement. Just on to the next complaint.

As for opinions, we're all wrong on here from time to time with our opinions. That's reality.

This poster isn't giving an opinion outside of everyone else is stupid or dumb etc. They don't contribute to the debate they probably have a very low self esteem and need to put others down to feel relevant.

Yes I was incorrect yesterday they did in fact have the 62nd pick and a late 3rd rounder last year. Thank you for pointing that out. I had forgot they had extra picks outside of the ones they dealt for Debrincat. Which was 7th OA a 2nd and a 3rd with no extension in place. I hope that they end up with atleast 1 pick in the first round this year. Another in the 2nd and 3rd would be terrific as well. This is likely Dorions make or break deal with this organization hopefully he can save his job.

I still maintain given how poor the 2021 draft was the lack of high picks last year after missing the playoffs and no picks in the first three rounds currently isn't ideal for a rebuilding team that hasn't been in the playoffs for 6 seasons. As I said in my previous post I will wait and see. However history has shown Dorion has not faired well without leverage.

 

[JD1]

This poster isn't giving an opinion outside of everyone else is stupid or dumb etc. They don't contribute to the debate they probably have a very low self esteem and need to put others down to feel relevant.

Yes I was incorrect yesterday they did in fact have the 62nd pick and a late 3rd rounder last year. Thank you for pointing that out. I had forgot they had extra picks outside of the ones they dealt for Debrincat. Which was 7th OA a 2nd and a 3rd with no extension in place. I hope that they end up with atleast 1 pick in the first round this year. Another in the 2nd and 3rd would be terrific as well. This is likely Dorions make or break deal with this organization hopefully he can save his job.

I still maintain given how poor the 2021 draft was the lack of high picks last year after missing the playoffs and no picks in the first three rounds currently isn't ideal for a rebuilding team that hasn't been in the playoffs for 6 seasons. As I said in my previous post I will wait and see. However history has shown Dorion has not faired well without leverage.

I didn't point out it was you Bert....and it was two 3rd rounders, one early and one mid 3rd round. Plus the 2nd.

Here's the thing....yes, I agree with you that it's not ideal. We got Chychrun and I'm good with what we gave up. I liked the DeBrincat deal too so now we're in wait and see mode as to how it plays out. I'd like to see him signed, you want him moved for draft capital and roster players. The latter is more likely.

Tkachuk is signed for 5 more seasons. That's our window right now because we don't know if he'll re-sign. I think we have the right core. it's filler we need. Filler is easier to find than core.

And our core is signed cheap too so we should be able to get some quality filler in the coming years.

 

[aragorn]

I didn't point out it was you Bert....and it was two 3rd rounders, one early and one mid 3rd round. Plus the 2nd.

Here's the thing....yes, I agree with you that it's not ideal. We got Chychrun and I'm good with what we gave up. I liked the DeBrincat deal too so now we're in wait and see mode as to how it plays out. I'd like to see him signed, you want him moved for draft capital and roster players. The latter is more likely.

Tkachuk is signed for 5 more seasons. That's our window right now because we don't know if he'll re-sign. I think we have the right core. it's filler we need. Filler is easier to find than core.

And our core is signed cheap too so we should be able to get some quality filler in the coming years.

That's a good point that brings up another question, does this team wait any longer for the better prospects in the system to improve the team or start looking to bring in outsiders through the UFA market or through trades to improve the team faster to get us where we want to get sooner? Do we use those prospects as trade bait or develop them further? It's a balance that we constantly argue as to what they should do & which way they should go. I like the team they are building & although DBC puts a slant on things they may still be able to get out of this & improve the team.

Which brings up another quetion regarding management, how the heck are they suppose to know when they trade for players if that guy will re-sign or not? What does it mean they should know, if it has never been communicated to them? And they need to reach a similar number & how often are both sides on the same page in terms of players value? Do players let management know their future plans if they are trying to get to free agency & decide for themselves where they want to go?

Players are well coached these days on exactly how to handle the media & management as to what their future plans are & usually refer to their agent team when it comes to contract negotiations where their agent knows exactly what the player wants. And GMs have to get a player at a number they can afford & fit the others in as well, it wouldn't be the first time a player costs himself out of a market. It can't be easy.

 

[DJB]

Treliving is a bit of a genius in keeping Keefe around.

It gives him someone to fire next year that isn't himself.

True but it is smart.
Buys him some time to look for his first coach

 

[bert]

Treliving is a bit of a genius in keeping Keefe around.

It gives him someone to fire next year that isn't himself.

He's a pretty great GM I was personally sad to see him replace Dubas. What he did with the Tkachuk situation and the return he got was incredible. Perfect guy for the situation in Toronto given the contract status of Matthews, Marner and Nylander. He has first hand experience.

 

[Beech]

-----
I like the team they are building & although DBC puts a slant on things they may still be able to get out of this & improve the team.

Which brings up another quetion regarding management, how the heck are they suppose to know when they trade for players if that guy will re-sign or not? What does it mean they should know, if it has never been communicated to them? And they need to reach a similar number & how often are both sides on the same page in terms of players value? Do players let management know their future plans if they are trying to get to free agency & decide for themselves where they want to go?

----
It can't be easy.

Pinto being 100% healthy
Norris being 90-100% healthy
Chyck being 90-100% healthy
Chabot being 80-90% healthy
Giroux being 90-100% of last year's Giroux
Batherson being 20-30% better defensively
Greig being 5-10% improved/mature over last year
Sanderson being 5-10% improved /mature over last year
Zub being 5-10% improved over last year
Formenton being 100% improved. As in be here or get the team a quality 3rd liner
Goaltending 10-20% better, regardless of how they get it..new blood or existing

Brady same as last year
Tim same as last year

DBC netting a 2nd liner

there is 14 guys.. out of 19 that play.

Brannstrom, Klevin, and any of the remaining 3rd and 4th liners need to do their jobs.. Just play at those levels and not below.

the building blocks are there.. put the damn structure together!!!!!!!

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

He's a pretty great GM I was personally sad to see him replace Dubas. What he did with the Tkachuk situation and the return he got was incredible. Perfect guy for the situation in Toronto given the contract status of Matthews, Marner and Nylander. He has first hand experience.

People will criticize the contracts, but that was an absolute haul. If they'd moved Hubs and Weegar they could have easily had 3 1sts, Schmaltz +++

 

[swiftwin]

Treliving is a bit of a genius in keeping Keefe around.

It gives him someone to fire next year that isn't himself.

This is a reason why I don't think Andlauer is going to fire Dorion right away.

If he fires Dorion and the team does poorly next year, it's a really bad first impression for Andlauer. If he doesn't fire him and the team does poorly, then he can fire him and declare a fresh start the following year. If he doesn't fire him, and the team does well, then all is good and he doesn't need to fire him.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Beautiful to see that much of the board is anti Dorion now. The pro Dorion crowd is spewing nonsense as usual.

New owner
Dorion soon to be fired and forgotten

What a time to be a Sens fan.

define “soon”….

 

[Sens Vader]

This is a reason why I don't think Andlauer is going to fire Dorion right away.

If he fires Dorion and the team does poorly next year, it's a really bad first impression for Andlauer. If he doesn't fire him and the team does poorly, then he can fire him and declare a fresh start the following year. If he doesn't fire him, and the team does well, then all is good and he doesn't need to fire him.

I could see this as well, if Andlauer really likes Staios he can just bring him into the management team as an addition instead of replacing anyone

I’m interested to see how this plays out

 

[DueDiligence]

He's a pretty great GM I was personally sad to see him replace Dubas. What he did with the Tkachuk situation and the return he got was incredible. Perfect guy for the situation in Toronto given the contract status of Matthews, Marner and Nylander. He has first hand experience.

I think you are a little over the top with calling Treliving "pretty great". His contract to Huberdeau could turn out to be terrible. Same with Kadri. The Flames are an old team with no real blue chip youngsters on their current NHL roster. Not sure how he will make out in Toronto other than giving Matthews a 5 year $14 million per year deal.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

The way this board works sometimes is deeply, deeply stupid.

Some posters: "Maybe we should wait for a resolution to the Debrincat situation before we do a final assessment or grading of the move, as a whole?"
Others: "The pro-Dorion crowd will go to the ends of the Earth to carry water for this f***ing loser who's one of the worst GMs of all time!!"

If one was to go back and read the first few months of the “Debricat” thread, for he was acquired by the Sens…. There was no negativity at all for that trade….pretty much everyone was okay with it.


It was the summer of Pierre and everyone was rejoicing.

Treliving is a bit of a genius in keeping Keefe around.

It gives him someone to fire next year that isn't himself.

Seeing how PD is not going anywhere soon, he will do the same thing with DJS…. He’ll play the “fire the coach” card to save his own job, at some point next season if the team is not performing to expectations.