The problem with looking at wins and losses, is that you need to consider how many GMs spent much of their time building a roster up from the ground, when winning games was not only not a priority, but when losing games was a necessary process of gathering top draft choices to build around.You're right. It's not. We should take a fair look.
So lets take a look at the the history of all NHL GMs. First we will look at single team tenure. The record of a GM with a team from hiring to firing. And we'll pick the top 100 in terms of games managed.
Here's the link: NHL Records
Here are some highlights where I rank by points percentage and pick recognizable recent names:
Rank Name Franchise Games Wins Losses Ties OT Losses Points Points Percentage 2 Don Sweeney Boston 618 378 174 0 66 822 133% 8 Ken Holland Detroit 1688 925 523 72 168 2090 124% 22 Lou Lamo. New Jersey 2140 1093 759 179 109 2474 116% 52 Bryan Murray Ottawa 704 339 278 0 87 765 109% 61 Don Maloney Arizona 704 326 291 0 87 739 105% 67 Garth Snow NYI 950 425 403 0 122 972 102% 72 Cliff Fletcher Toronto 460 202 200 58 0 462 100% 74 Bryan Murray Florida 494 199 203 81 11 490 99% 78 Jim Benning Vancouver 560 242 257 0 61 545 97% 82 Pierre Dorion Ottawa 537 221 257 0 59 501 93% 87 Don Waddell Atlanta 820 308 401 45 66 727 89% 90 Mike Milbury NYI 792 294 392 86 20 694 88% 91 J. Ferguson Sr Arizona 729 271 362 96 0 638 88% 94 Doug MacLean Columbus 492 172 258 33 29 406 83% 96 Phil Esposito Tampa Bay 464 157 253 54 0 368 79%
One important thing to keep in mind is the ties column. This puts all the GMs below Pierre Dorion at a disadvantage. They tied games. Dorion teams won games that would be considered ties.
If we assume a Mike Milbury team or Ferguson Sr. team won at a similar rate to their records.... and we divvy up those ties.... Milbury and Ferguson Jr would have a very similar record to Dorion.
That leaves - Doug MacLean, Phil Esposito and Don Waddell (sort of but Don Waddell is pretty close to Dorion). And what do all three have in common? They were the first GMs for expansion teams. They had zero assets to start with. Dorion started with a playoff team. Not a great team but a playoff team with a Norris winner, a future Selke candidate, some solid players at center.
I just don't see how this is a debate. I really don't. I don't hate Dorion. I wish him well. He'll get a job as a scout or AGM but his first attempt at being an NHL GM has been a complete failure when you look at the list of names and who he compares with.
Consider the mindset of A GM who knows he could get more wins and move up your list if he cobbles together a mediocre roster and keeps it going instead of rebuilding a better team that may actually have a chance at winning a championship.
Consider a GM that has managed a team for years that had a crushing on and off ice budget, who’s instructions from ownership was to be at the cap floor, and hopefully below in terms of actual dollars spent.
The numbers don’t tell all the stories, nor are they the be all end all of a GM’s talent in the position, as you seem to be saying.
The numbers are just number without context. It’s like looking at points and assuming that a guy who plays on a good team and has more points is just a better player than a guy who plays on a bad team and has fewer points. Obviously it’s not that simple, and the guy on the bad team very well could be the better player.
Dorion had an aging core that blew up in the locker room and unfortunately he was unable to spend the money necessary to build a team around that core anyways. You’ll note that we still made the playoffs during that time including a trip to game 7 of the ECF.
He turned that Norris winning into one of the best trade hauls of all time, and several other guys netted solid return as well. Stone was unfortunate, but was a story all of its own. We didn’t get a great return because PD was actively trying to keep him up until minutes before the deadline. Was that a mistake? Maybe, but most people still wish we could have found a way to make him stay.
I don’t really agree with you trying to use what PD started with as some sort of watering down of what he was able to turn it into. Every GM starts with something to work with. Yzerman in TBay started with an embarrassment of riches and was able to build around that. Edmonton has two of the best players of our generation, buffalo has multiple 1st OAs, NJ has won the lottery several times… I mean there are lots of GMS that we would have to start knocking down a peg if we start looking at things like this.
To me, it’s what you do with what you have that’s most important, what ever luck and assets you have. I love what has been built to date in Ottawa, and the direction I feel they are headed. That’s all that really matter to me in terms of evaluating the GM. The rest is just noise and NHL soap opera stuff that while entertaining, is just gossip and filler.
Last edited: