Management GM Pierre Dorion/Front Office Thread - Part IX [Mod Warning in post 1)

[Hockeysawks]

f*** no on Gallant?

And why Dubas? He's shown he can't build a team that can compete in the playoffs.

,Looking at cap friendly and looking at the team he iced his first year, has he really built anything?

 

[L'Aveuglette]

why are people on twitter so into spezza in any sort of role. what evidence is there that he knows f***ing anything

I dunno maybe the fact that the Leaves hired him?

 

[SensHulk]

Yes I'm sure.

Pierre Dorion will never be an NHL GM again.

I agree with this but I think it’s less about his moves and more of how he just comes off as a buffoon

 

[Micklebot]

I dunno maybe the fact that the Leaves hired him?

He was being hyped as a potential front office guy around the league before Leafs hired him.

 

[Golden_Jet]

why are people on twitter so into spezza in any sort of role. what evidence is there that he knows f***ing anything

Probably because he’s a hockey nerd, lives and breathes the game.

 

[Ouroboros]

why are people on twitter so into spezza in any sort of role. what evidence is there that he knows f***ing anything

I often wonder the same about Daniel Alfredsson.

 

[Micklebot]

Why did people think Yzerman would be a good Front office guy,

Why did people think Rob Blake would be a good Front office guy,

Why did people think Bill Guerin would be a good Front office guy,

Why did people think Rob Francis would be a good Front office guy,

 

[Senovision]

Dubas was in way over his head. It was a swing and a miss hire by Shanaplan. Dubas said so himself in his press conference that the pressure was too much for him in Toronto.
Maybe he can GM back in the Soo.
He is way overhyped considering the underwhelming playoff achievements of his team.
He is just not very good. He has left the Leafs with limited draft picks, huge contracts, and issues in goaltending, etc....
Leading the Leafs to the Cup or deep into the playoffs was his mandate and he failed. He didn't make the right moves.
Will he get another GM job? Probably because the NHL just rehires coaches and rehires GMs. He will make the same mistakes.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Why did people think Yzerman would be a good Front office guy,

Why did people think Rob Blake would be a good Front office guy,

Why did people think Bill Guerin would be a good Front office guy,

Why did people think Rob Francis would be a good Front office guy,

other people have played hockey and not been that great?

and did people think they’d be amazing?

 

[Golden_Jet]

other people have played hockey and not been that great?

and did people think they’d be amazing?

So some are, some aren’t, nothing shocking there really.

 

[Cosmix]

I often wonder the same about Daniel Alfredsson.

With all the body-checking and pucks to the head, not to mention the fighting, one has to wonder why any hockey player would be chosen as a coach or GM!

,Looking at cap friendly and looking at the team he iced his first year, has he really built anything?

An assessment of Dubas as GM would have to include an assessment of his work including:
What players and prospects did Dubas inherit from the previous GM?
Which players and prospects did the Leafs acquire during his tenure as GM?
What results did Dubas achieve?

 

[Micklebot]

other people have played hockey and not been that great?

and did people think they’d be amazing?

People think Spezza will be good because people in the industry have commented on it. I mean, none of us have likely worked with him in any capacity, so people are going off what insiders gave said. The alternative is to reject what insiders have said and just assume he's no different than any other unknown.

 

[Cosmix]

I agree with this but I think it’s less about his moves and more of how he just comes off as a buffoon

Yes, yes and his results too!

 

[Cosmix]

There are lots of intangibles that make defencemen really good to have on your team and are important to playing defence.
Hitting, and being able to take hits and not cough the puck up, moving players out of the front of the net, not giving opposing players second chance opportunities, creating fear in opposing players, fighting, being nasty to play against, blocking shots which is hugely important in playoff hockey etc....
These are just a list of a few of the intangibles. There are many more that could be added to my list.
There are defencemen that are not on the list of top 50 NHL defencemen that bring a lot of important intangibles that are needed to develop a successful defence core on any team.

I think you used the term "intangible" by mistake as some of the things you identified can be identified by the senses. Perhaps you meant "difficult to track or not tracked"?

Definition:

intangible

ĭn-tăn′jə-bəl

adjective​

1. Incapable of being perceived by the senses.
2. Incapable of being realized or defined.
3. Incorporeal.

I’ll say this, Pierre is very uncomfortable right now with the impending new ownership

He should be uncomfortable, given the team results of the last few years.

 

[DJB]

If I was a 1st time GM who missed the playoffs a league high 6 years in a row, a poor communicator, who is sitting on no draft picks for this year; in large measure for a player who may play here one year, & a legacy of previously despised ownership I would also be very uncomfortable - regardless of the optimism around the roster.

I think any GM regardless of situation or previous history would be nervous with new owners coming in.

 

[Senovision]

I think you used the term "intangible" by mistake as some of the things you identified can be identified by the senses. Perhaps you meant "difficult to track or not tracked"?

Definition:

intangible

ĭn-tăn′jə-bəl

adjective​

1. Incapable of being perceived by the senses.
2. Incapable of being realized or defined.
3. Incorporeal.

He should be uncomfortable, given the team results of the last few years.

an abstract quality or attribute, that is intangible.
Basically an attribute that is hard to quantify is what intangible means.
Goals, assists, etc are tangible things that are easily quantified.

 

[Cosmix]

Dubas as a president with Spezza and Alfredsson in support roles eh, Idk if I'm on board, but we could do worse.

We could do better than that by hiring more experienced management supporting staff. Dubas has some experience but Spezza has one year and Alfie none. Hiring an old-timer as an adviser to the GM like Chicago did with Scotty Bowman could be a wise move. I am not opposed to hiring Dubas as GM.

 

[Cosmix]

I think any GM regardless of situation or previous history would be nervous with new owners coming in.

I don't think so.

If a GM had a winning record, made the playoffs for the last 5 to 10 years, put together a promising and improving roster, went deep into the playoffs, got to the SC finals, and won the SC the prior season, I doubt he would be nervous.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I think you used the term "intangible" by mistake as some of the things you identified can be identified by the senses. Perhaps you meant "difficult to track or not tracked"?

Definition:

intangible

ĭn-tăn′jə-bəl

adjective​

1. Incapable of being perceived by the senses.
2. Incapable of being realized or defined.
3. Incorporeal.

He should be uncomfortable, given the team results of the last few years.

Think you need to explain which are wrong, as some are fine, can’t just use it as a blanket statement. tbh it’s not a big deal.

Miriam Webster: Leadership is an intangible asset to a company.

an abstract quality or attribute

 

[Hockeysawks]

Dubas culture, don't critique the players, don't demand more, be proud of loosing

Thats a hard pass

 

[Cosmix]

Think you need to explain which are wrong, as some are fine, can’t just use it as a blanket statement. tbh it’s not a big deal.

Miriam Webster: Leadership is an intangible asset to a company.

an abstract quality or attribute

I did not say the list of requirements was "wrong".

I agree the team needs defencemen who can hit, take hits, retain puck possession, move players from in front of the net, box out players from getting to the front of the net, make opponents fear coming into the D zone on their side of the ice, fight if it becomes necessary, block shots, etc. They also need to be able to beat opponents to the puck, make accurate passes, & skate the puck out of the D zone. These are "observable" traits that we may not have readily available statistics.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

It's interesting. People on here are constantly lamenting the lack of a POHO or whatever in the Senators front office, but it seems like these relationships almost always result in disharmony and power struggles. Too many cooks and whatnot.

Hockey really isn't that complicated. You don't need 45 people in your front office to figure it out.

From the outside, Toronto's front office looks like a bureaucratic dystopia.

Agree 45 is a lot

 

[hockeywiz542]

The Shanahan Presser | 32 Thoughts

SPORTSNET

May 20, 2023 32 Thoughts

It was a late night and the Leafs make a major move! Jeff and Elliotte discuss Brendan Shanahan's press conference and recap the 4OT thriller. That and more on this full episode of 32 Thoughts!

----------------------------------------------

00:01 - Jeff and Elliotte discuss Brendan Shanahan's press conference as the Toronto Maple Leafs will not be bringing back Kyle Dubas as their GM

25:00 - They also recap the 4OT thriller between Florida-Carolina

 

[ijif]

I'm always a bit leery about all encompassing models.

Out of curiosity, is that a count or rate based measure, as in, does 4.4 for Ottawa reflect the fact that Chabot, Chychrun and Zub all missed considerable time while NYR and Car d cores were mostly healthy?

It's the sum of each individual count, so it does not take into account games played.

 

[Golden_Jet]

These are "observable" traits that we may not have readily available statistics.

correct we don’t, but teams have access to those through their contract with sportlogiq