Management GM Pierre Dorion/Front Office Thread - Part IX [Mod Warning in post 1)

[swiftwin]

I don't understand how people can watch Vegas be good from year 1, Seattle be good from year two and Ottawa miss the playoffs for the 6th time in a row and call the season successful because they didn't miss the playoffs by that much. Expectations for Dorion are comically low.

Lmfao! Sure, let us pick players from every other team and we'd be in the playoffs in no time.

 

[Big Muddy]

By what logic?!?!

A general manager is not judged by the team's performance that very season. A general manager is judged on longer timelines than that. The fact it, Dorion successfully executed a rebuild. That's just a fact that can't be denied. Everything else is just noise.

It appears that way and I'm hoping for the best, but "successful" is a relative, user-definable term and some (many?) would think its too early to say that we have been "successful".

 

[inthewings]

Dorion successfully executed a rebuild. That's just a fact that can't be denied.

He's missed the playoffs 6 years in a row, has a capped-out non-playoff team, and one of the worst farms in the league.

 

[inthewings]

Lmfao! Sure, let us pick players from every other team and we'd be in the playoffs in no time.

I'm not sure what it is about Dorion's professional acquisitions that leads you to believe he would have been able to successfully maneuver the expansion draft.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Lmfao! Sure, let us pick players from every other team and we'd be in the playoffs in no time.

Rainbows baby.

 

[swiftwin]

I'm not sure what it is about Dorion's professional acquisitions that leads you to believe he would have been able to successfully maneuver the expansion draft.

You're just salty that you were wrong about Dorion this whole time, and I was right.

You know this is likely the last time we miss the playoffs so this is your last opportunity to get your shots in.

To be honest, if I were you, I wouldn't be doubling down against this core that Dorion built.

 

[Ice-Tray]

He's missed the playoffs 6 years in a row, has a capped-out non-playoff team, and one of the worst farms in the league.

We weren’t at the cap this year. Save this hammer for the GM at the end of next season if we don’t make the playoffs.

Not sure why you’re comparing a team that built from the draft with a team that was built through the new expansion draft rules. They aren’t really comparable team building timelines at all.

 

[MrGuyPerson]

This won't solve the sens woes, but thoughts on adding Dominik Bokk?

The kid shredded the DEL before he got hurt. Carolina likely won't ask for much considering they don't have room for him on the roster.

He may not be a star, but he could become a great depth player. I say give it a whirl and give the kid a chance in the show. Low risk high reward. Plus him and Timmy are boyz with a "z".

I would also be interested to see how Ryan Reynolds Markets them. Even if they do not add Bokk, I am super interested in how he will market Timmy. With Ryan Reynolds on board the possibilities are endless. Throw Tim in some funny commercials with Ryan Reynolds and I think the sens and Timmy could get relatively big Germany pretty fast

 

[inthewings]

You're just salty that you were wrong about Dorion this whole time, and I was right.

You know this is likely the last time we miss the playoffs so this is your last opportunity to get your shots in.

To be honest, if I were you, I wouldn't be doubling down against this core that Dorion built.

I don’t have a problem with the core of the team. I don’t think the current FO has displayed an ability to surround that core with pieces that will allow them to compete for a championship. I’m basing that assessment on what I consider years of very bad assessments when it comes to pro additions.

I think your confidence in your own opinion is admirable though. Well, not admirable, but it’s probably enjoyable.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

By what logic?!?!

A general manager is not judged by the team's performance that very season. A general manager is judged on longer timelines than that. The fact it, Dorion successfully executed a rebuild. That's just a fact that can't be denied. Everything else is just noise.

I don't consider pulling off a tankjob to be a success. Tearing a team down and getting and making high picks is easy (well Boucher at ten says otherwise and I kind of like him).

I understand that your contrarian streak prevents you from processing this very simple and basic piece of information so no worries.

Fight the power man. Keep pumping the tires of an insecure, mediocre GM. We are a non-playoff team and effectively are at the salary cap, that is bad management even if the core is solid.

 

[swiftwin]

I don't consider pulling off a tankjob to be a success. Tearing a team down and getting and making high picks is easy (well Boucher at ten says otherwise and I kind of like him).

I understand that your contrarian streak prevents you from processing this very simple and basic piece of information so no worries.

Fight the power man. Keep pumping the tires of an insecure, mediocre GM.

Getting high picks?!? We've hardly won any lotteries. Not only that, but we're clearly past the tear down phase of the rebuild.

The fact is, the entire hockey world knows there's a buzz with this team. That's just a fact. You're the one trying to be contrarian to this fact.

I'm sure you already know these facts, but you're just doubling down on being wrong.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

The fact is, the entire hockey world knows there's a buzz with this team. That's just a fact. You're the one trying to be contrarian to this fact.

Right, the buzz of the conman owner who stood in the way of progress dead and buried and a ton of interest in terms of the sale of the team is all on Dorion.

Nevermind the fact that a lot of the buzz is also because we are almost finally rid of him.

I admire your child-like wonder. "There is a buzz, clearly everything is fine" hahaha

The tear down was barely salvaged by getting very lucky on the Karlsson return. Without that insane homerun (which saves him from being an outright bad GM), Dorion would have nothing to show for the good core he inherited and sold off.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Weir, the entire hockey world is talking about our up and coming team, even fans from rivals come to say nice things.

Our 5 contrarians are steadfast though.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Weir, the entire hockey world is talking about our up and coming team, even fans from rivals come to say nice things.

Our 5 contrarians are steadfast though.

I can also understand your inability to dissociate vibes from success, you being a jarhead and all.

 

[Cosmix]

I don't understand how people can watch Vegas be good from year 1, Seattle be good from year two and Ottawa miss the playoffs for the 6th time in a row and call the season successful because they didn't miss the playoffs by that much. Expectations for Dorion are comically low.

It would be an interesting exercise to show the performance of the two teams (LV and Seattle) with the players they had in their first year from the entry draft and compare that to the Senators roster at the same time. That study would include the trades made by the 3 teams over time and how they built their rosters.

 

[Golden_Jet]

...or how the expansion Senators made the playoffs in year 5.

Ya huge difference in expansion rules for Sens vs Vegas. Sens and Tampa rules a joke.
Teams could protect 2 goalies, 14 skaters and ELC players back then.

 

[swiftwin]

I can also understand your inability to dissociate vibes from success, you being a jarhead and all.

Keep being the contrarian

 

[inthewings]

Ya huge difference in expansion rules for Sens vs Vegas. Sens and Tampa rules a joke.
Teams could protect 2 goalies, 14 skaters and ELC players back then.

I think a lot of fans don't realize how impressive the front office of the early Senators was. As you say, they were given nothing in the expansion draft. And only missed the playoffs 4 times before qualifying in 97, kicking off what was at times a dominant 11-year stretch as a contender.

And they did it without drafting any elite players with their early picks, with the exception of Yashin:

1992 - Yashin 2nd overall
1993 - Daigle 1st overall
1994 - Bonk 3rd overall
1995 - Berard 1st overall
1996 - Phillips 1st overall

I have a lot of respect for how well the early franchise was run and for what they accomplished.

 

[Big Muddy]

Looks like the new shift staff have arrived.

 

[Byron Bitz]

I guess Dubas is out of the running for next Sens GM now

 

[Golden_Jet]

I guess Dubas is out of the running for next Sens GM now

Hopefully

 

[Ice-Tray]

I think a lot of fans don't realize how impressive the front office of the early Senators was. As you say, they were given nothing in the expansion draft. And only missed the playoffs 4 times before qualifying in 97, kicking off what was at times a dominant 11-year stretch as a contender.

And they did it without drafting any elite players with their early picks, with the exception of Yashin:

1992 - Yashin 2nd overall
1993 - Daigle 1st overall
1994 - Bonk 3rd overall
1995 - Berard 1st overall
1996 - Phillips 1st overall

I have a lot of respect for how well the early franchise was run and for what they accomplished.

Redden/Bernard was absolutely elite.

And I think you’re romanticizing that ”dominant 11-year stretch as a contender”

We were regular season darlings who earned the label of playoff choker for most of that time. We had stiff competition from teams like SJ and St Louis though for that dubious title. Lol

We finally had a few top tier playoff years before the wheels came off, but we lost most of our window to inept playoff competitiveness. It’s not something I’m looking to duplicate.

Hopefully this core can hit the ground running in the playoffs, and I’m fine with a slow approach to development if it means we get there stay there, and become an actual threat.

 

[Loach]

Ya huge difference in expansion rules for Sens vs Vegas. Sens and Tampa rules a joke.
Teams could protect 2 goalies, 14 skaters and ELC players back then.

Yeah..but this team had a bunch of good players to trade to start the rebuild.

 

[bicboi64]

because we got unicorns in Stutzle and Sanderson who will probably be hall of fame players.

Mate, I love these two but this is beyond premature

 

[Ice-Tray]

Yeah..but this team had a bunch of good players to trade to start the rebuild.

Which is why we have several good players despite losing the draft lottery each year that we bottomed out.