Management GM Pierre Dorion/Front Office Thread - Part IX [Mod Warning in post 1)

[Samsquanch]

blows my mind that there are some people who still like and want to keep Dorion.

1 of 32 positions in the world and they are fine with Dorion in it lol. these people basically like losing, which is so crazy considering the point of sports is to win.

It's equally baffling how some people are just flat out incapable of admiting that despite the fact they want Dorion fired, he built a pretty damn sick team for whoever replaces him eventually.

Even if you don't like the roster makeup or our current players, surely you must see that almost all other Sens fans and hockey analysts all genuinely love and admire this young core group.

I'm not saying Dorion must stay. But I'm also not going to let emotions cloud the fact that Dorion built a super sick hockey team. And he absolutely deserves at very least some strong consideration to keep his job moving forward.

And I don't care what any history revisionist in here says, the Sanderson and Tkachuk picks will go down as shrewd, franchise changing picks for the Sens. When your picking that high you MUST get the picks right. And in both cases there were "sexier" picks ranked ahead of the players we took. We could be several years behind if he got those wrong.

The fact that we only picked at #3,4 and 5 during our rebuild (while somehow teams like NYR had #1 & 2 over the same time) and landed a superstar #1C, an elite brusing #1W, and a stud #1D - that is what is actually mind blowing. The Rangers can buy themselves out of two big misses like that - we cannot.

 

[Bileur]

It's equally baffling how some people are just flat out incapable of admiting that despite the fact they want Dorion fired, he built a pretty damn sick team for whoever replaces him eventually.

Even if you don't like the roster makeup or our current players, surely you must see that almost all other Sens fans and hockey analysts all genuinely love and admire this young core group.

I'm not saying Dorion must stay. But I'm also not going to let emotions cloud the fact that Dorion built a super sick hockey team. And he absolutely deserves at very least some strong consideration to keep his job moving forward.

And I don't care what any history revisionist in here says, the Sanderson and Tkachuk picks will go down as shrewd, franchise changing picks for the Sens. When your picking that high you MUST get the picks right. And in both cases there were "sexier" picks ranked ahead of the players we took. We could be several years behind if he got those wrong.

The fact that we only picked at #3,4 and 5 during our rebuild (while somehow teams like NYR had #1 & 2 over the same time) and landed a superstar #1C, an elite brusing #1W, and a stud #1D - that is what is actually mind blowing. The Rangers can buy themselves out of two big misses like that - we cannot.

Interesting, I haven’t noticed that. Can you quote someone or identify a poster taking that position?

From what I’ve seen most who want him fired complain about overall results, asset management, trades, or questionable professionalism, but not many complain about the young talent assembled.

 

[bicboi64]

Interesting, I haven’t noticed that. Can you quote someone or identify a poster taking that position?

From what I’ve seen most who want him fired complain about overall results, asset management, trades, or questionable professionalism, but not many complain about the young talent assembled.

Pretty much this, critics of him (speaking for myself), are hyped for the potential we have but also think we should be in a better position (various ways to define/measure that) considering how we started a rebuild

 

[GCK]

You're right. They're going to be looking at this:

2023 playoffs? No
2022 playoffs? No
2021 playoffs? No
2020 playoffs? No
2019 playoffs? No
2018 playoffs? No

What is the one constant? Pierre Dorion as general manager.

2018 - tearing down roster
2019 - keep costs to a minimum while reaching cap floor
2020 - see 2019
2021 - make progress - failed
2022 - play meaningful games - fail
2023 - try and be in it till the end - sort of fail

The record from 2021 till now is all you need to show he’s not good.

 

[Ice-Tray]

2018 - tearing down roster
2019 - keep costs to a minimum while reaching cap floor
2020 - see 2019
2021 - make progress - failed
2022 - play meaningful games - fail
2023 - try and be in it till the end - sort of fail

The record from 2021 till now is all you need to show he’s not good.

This is a personal list.

 

[UglyPuckling]

2018 - tearing down roster
2019 - keep costs to a minimum while reaching cap floor
2020 - see 2019
2021 - make progress - failed
2022 - play meaningful games - fail
2023 - try and be in it till the end - sort of fail

The record from 2021 till now is all you need to show he’s not good.

This is a personal list.

The list seems pretty accurate.

 

[Loach]

The list seems pretty accurate.

Who did we pick in the first round those years?

 

[GCK]

Who did we pick in the first round those years?

2018 - Brady, JBD
2019 - Thomson - original pick was dealt prior to tear down - would have been 4OA
2020 - Stu, Sanderson, Greig
2021 - Boucher
2022 - Dealt for Debrincat
2023 - Dealt for Chychrun

 

[Loach]

2018 - Brady, JBD
2019 - Thomson - original pick was dealt prior to tear down - would have been 4OA
2020 - Stu, Sanderson, Greig
2021 - Boucher
2022 - Dealt for Debrincat
2023 - Dealt for Chychrun

How does this look good and bad at the same time?

 

[Mingus Dew]

It turns out that some people can do more than one job, perhaps he can too.

Sure but what has Dorion done to deserve this special treatment (in terms of what tends to happen around the league)? I don’t see why he should get the benefit of the doubt here - he performed his role and now it’s time for someone else to perform a new one.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Sure but what has Dorion done to deserve this special treatment (in terms of what tends to happen around the league)? I don’t see why he should get the benefit of the doubt here - he performed his role and now it’s time for someone else to perform a new one.

I’m sure whatever moves the new ownership make will be made clear to us all.

 

[Mingus Dew]

I’m sure whatever moves the new ownership make will be made clear to us all.

I expect them to keep him on just because the timing doesn’t really work with hiring new personnel.

Next year will be the first in a long time where the team has playoff expectations so I suppose we’ll see how Pierre does in a different role.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I expect them to keep him on just because the timing doesn’t really work with hiring new personnel.

Next year will be the first in a long time where the team has playoff expectations so I suppose we’ll see how Pierre does in a different role.

I have a feeling this is also the way things will go.

I’m interested to see how the team fares out the gate as well, and I don’t expect ownership to be very patient if they see areas that can be improved on immediately.

I would love to hear about hiring a bunch more scouts and adding some legacy players to the front office though.

 

[Cosmix]

I expect them to keep him on just because the timing doesn’t really work with hiring new personnel.

Next year will be the first in a long time where the team has playoff expectations so I suppose we’ll see how Pierre does in a different role.

I think the new owners will want to show the fans that they are going to improve the team and its performance.

 

[SweSensFan]

It's equally baffling how some people are just flat out incapable of admiting that despite the fact they want Dorion fired, he built a pretty damn sick team for whoever replaces him eventually.

Even if you don't like the roster makeup or our current players, surely you must see that almost all other Sens fans and hockey analysts all genuinely love and admire this young core group.

I'm not saying Dorion must stay. But I'm also not going to let emotions cloud the fact that Dorion built a super sick hockey team. And he absolutely deserves at very least some strong consideration to keep his job moving forward.

And I don't care what any history revisionist in here says, the Sanderson and Tkachuk picks will go down as shrewd, franchise changing picks for the Sens. When your picking that high you MUST get the picks right. And in both cases there were "sexier" picks ranked ahead of the players we took. We could be several years behind if he got those wrong.

The fact that we only picked at #3,4 and 5 during our rebuild (while somehow teams like NYR had #1 & 2 over the same time) and landed a superstar #1C, an elite brusing #1W, and a stud #1D - that is what is actually mind blowing. The Rangers can buy themselves out of two big misses like that - we cannot.

I think you have some good points here. I am pretty sure Stü was expected to go 2nd or 3rd, it was the Sanderson at #5 that raised eye brows. Sure the 2019 draft was great. However I really think we could have traded down several times over the years and get more picks as a result when reaching for players expected to go 1-2 full rounds after where we picked them and allthough he may be an nhl:er one day pickin Boucher at #10 in 2021 will always be a head scratcher for me..

 

[Big Muddy]

I think the new owners will want to show the fans that they are going to improve the team and its performance.

Me too. I think if Dorion remains as GM at the start of the season because of the timing of the new ownership take over, I think he will have a short rope if they get off to another poor start and are virtually eliminated by American Thanksgiving. That cliche about the definition of insanity comes to mind.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

2018 - tearing down roster
2019 - keep costs to a minimum while reaching cap floor
2020 - see 2019
2021 - make progress - failed
2022 - play meaningful games - fail
2023 - try and be in it till the end - sort of fail

The record from 2021 till now is all you need to show he’s not good.

Yes but this year was a success.

I don't think anyone seriously thought we were a lock for the playoffs and we were eliminated in April. The team somehow overcame the awful start to the season, that is pretty impressive.

However your point still stands: Dorion has had two good seasons (his first and this one), he's a mediocre GM.

That being said, I'm not sure changing the coach and the GM at the same time is wise and if I have to pick one to replace ASAP, it is the coach. We basically are a cap team and the roster is mostly set, Dorion can't do much damage next season.

 

[inthewings]

I don't understand how people can watch Vegas be good from year 1, Seattle be good from year two and Ottawa miss the playoffs for the 6th time in a row and call the season successful because they didn't miss the playoffs by that much. Expectations for Dorion are comically low.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

It's equally baffling how some people are just flat out incapable of admiting that despite the fact they want Dorion fired, he built a pretty damn sick team for whoever replaces him eventually.

Even if you don't like the roster makeup or our current players, surely you must see that almost all other Sens fans and hockey analysts all genuinely love and admire this young core group.

I'm not saying Dorion must stay. But I'm also not going to let emotions cloud the fact that Dorion built a super sick hockey team. And he absolutely deserves at very least some strong consideration to keep his job moving forward.

And I don't care what any history revisionist in here says, the Sanderson and Tkachuk picks will go down as shrewd, franchise changing picks for the Sens. When your picking that high you MUST get the picks right. And in both cases there were "sexier" picks ranked ahead of the players we took. We could be several years behind if he got those wrong.

The fact that we only picked at #3,4 and 5 during our rebuild (while somehow teams like NYR had #1 & 2 over the same time) and landed a superstar #1C, an elite brusing #1W, and a stud #1D - that is what is actually mind blowing. The Rangers can buy themselves out of two big misses like that - we cannot.

Do you realize that even if you put a monkey in charge with a wheel and gave him the opportunity to sell off top prime talent that the league has never seen, and added 6 years of tanking with the recommendations of top scouts, which now probably equates to 10 years of assets we should be hoarding, the monkey quite possibly might have done better than Dorion?

Picking high and getting a chance at the top talent first is the easiest thing to do. Anyone can oversee that and walk away with a wagon of promising futures, especially when it's near 10 years of loot. The sad part is that we should have so much more if not for the waste of Dorion. We should have been fighting for contender level right now. Look at teams like NJ and the Sabres, they have so much hungry depth and promising prospects. Meanwhile, our prospect pool is barren and depth is barren compared to theirs, and we have yet to even make the playoffs. How can anyone be happy with that?

I'm glad you brought up Stutzle and Sanderson because we could have easily missed out on those players. If we had missed out, our rebuild would not have even been a rebuild. How is that a positive for Dorion?

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

How does this look good and bad at the same time?

because we got unicorns in Stutzle and Sanderson who will probably be hall of fame players. NYR or LA pick Stu, we're done. We get the #1 pick instead of #3 we're done. Anaheim picks ahead of us we're done. If it's a full year and Sanderson continues to play at a higher rate than Drysdale, Raymond and Byfield esp at u18s, we're done.

I mean we got them, so i'm happy. but scary to think how much of it was fluke.

 

[Butchy Dakkar]

I don't understand how people can watch Vegas be good from year 1, Seattle be good from year two and Ottawa miss the playoffs for the 6th time in a row and call the season successful because they didn't miss the playoffs by that much. Expectations for Dorion are comically low.

That’s what I keep thinking watching how well Seattle played this year. And they didn’t have the same advantage as Vegas, when GMs were making lopsided deals to protect additional players.

 

[Loach]

I don't understand how people can watch Vegas be good from year 1, Seattle be good from year two and Ottawa miss the playoffs for the 6th time in a row and call the season successful because they didn't miss the playoffs by that much. Expectations for Dorion are comically low.

...or how the expansion Senators made the playoffs in year 5.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I don't understand how people can watch Vegas be good from year 1, Seattle be good from year two and Ottawa miss the playoffs for the 6th time in a row and call the season successful because they didn't miss the playoffs by that much. Expectations for Dorion are comically low.

7 points from passing Florida for the final WC
2 teams to leap frog both finished 5 points ahead.

Not that close .. but improved.

 

[Big Muddy]

7 points from passing Florida for the final WC
2 teams to leap frog both finished 5 points ahead.

Not that close .. but improved.

Yes, I think the definition of "close" varies a lot from person to person. In some people's minds, 1 or 2 points out of a wild-card seed would constitute being close.

 

[swiftwin]

Yes but this year was a success.

I don't think anyone seriously thought we were a lock for the playoffs and we were eliminated in April. The team somehow overcame the awful start to the season, that is pretty impressive.

However your point still stands: Dorion has had two good seasons (his first and this one), he's a mediocre GM.

That being said, I'm not sure changing the coach and the GM at the same time is wise and if I have to pick one to replace ASAP, it is the coach. We basically are a cap team and the roster is mostly set, Dorion can't do much damage next season.

By what logic?!?!

A general manager is not judged by the team's performance that very season. A general manager is judged on longer timelines than that. The fact it, Dorion successfully executed a rebuild. That's just a fact that can't be denied. Everything else is just noise.