Management GM Pierre Dorion/Front Office Thread - Part IX [Mod Warning in post 1)

[swiftwin]

We actually have a date for the rebuild beginning, Dorion stated the decision to rebuild was made when he met with Melnyk in Feb 2018, so 5 years and 2-3 months.

Bingo.

The exact date the rebuild started was February 15, 2018. That's when Dorion met with Melnyk in Barbados, the rebuild plan was hatched, and Dorion was given an early 3yr extension to execute the rebuild.

That was exactly 5 years, 2 months, 11 days ago.

Yeah. Dorion sold off assets to finish second to last lmao.

And this is a reason to give him the benefit of the doubt? I am understanding you correctly here?

We should stick by Dorion because of his colossal misjudgment of where this team was at relative to the rest of the league.

So you admit the rebuild did not start 7 years ago?

What are we even arguing? We've missed the playoffs six years in a row, and we've been rebuilding for five of them.

Very weird stuff.

Yup. It's super weird. Some people got called out on their petty lies and/or hallucinations, and they're doubling down on them when called out.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Look one post up or below from this post I'm quoting.

Yea because Dorion is so bad at his job that he was forced into a rebuild the same year he traded away a high first to get into the playoffs.

Literally a few months after the trade because Dorion has no idea what he is doing. That's how you go for it and rebuild in the same year. Its incredible. Imagine thinking you have a good team and trading away your first when you have Johnny oduya on your first pair and an injured Karlsson.

A true Dorion masterclass.

 

[Golden_Jet]

No we started rebuilding when Dorion put together the excrement that was the 2018 team that crashed and when Dorion was called to Barbados and extended.

That was 2017-2018, the year the team was bad enough to pick #4.

That was six years ago and we are now entering the 7th season since.

The Barbados meeting was like poster said February 2018, and line you just said, so just over 5 years.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Splitting hairs. Who cares. 2017-18 was the year exciting hockey in Ottawa ended, regardless of the official start date of Melnyk's orders.

It sucked ass and produced some of the worst hockey seen in Ottawa since their expansion, but we're coming out the other end of it and can be excited about hockey again soon, no matter how long it took.

And at least we'll finally have respectable ownership. That alone is enough to feel 1000 times more positive.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Splitting hairs. Who cares. 2017-18 was the year exciting hockey in Ottawa ended, regardless of the official start date of Melnyk's orders.

It sucked ass and produced some of the worst hockey seen in Ottawa since their expansion, but we're coming out the other end of it and can be excited about hockey again soon, no matter how long it took.

And at least we'll finally have respectable ownership. That alone is enough to feel 1000 times more positive.

Yep it was for trade deadline in 2018, so ya it is 5 years. Didn’t move any valuable until September 2018 and TDL 2019.

 

[Knave]

Bingo.

The exact date the rebuild started was February 15, 2018. That's when Dorion met with Melnyk in Barbados, the rebuild plan was hatched, and Dorion was given an early 3yr extension to execute the rebuild.

That was exactly 5 years, 2 months, 11 days ago.


So you admit the rebuild did not start 7 years ago?

If we're measuring in Dorion years then sure.

But I can't think of any other example where the GM gets to claim how long the team has been rebuilding.

If you want to take incompetence personified at its word, be my guest.

 

[JD1]

Ok boys and girls

Can we agree that we went to the ECF in 2017? That should be easy to agree on, right?

On November 5, 2017 we acquired Duchene. Some of you might have to look that date up. I know I did. Can we agree that when we acquired Duchene we were not in a rebuild? That seems reasonable

Then what happened? We shit the bed. Dorion's rebuild plan was agreed to by Melnyk and first communicated in February 2018. You can look that up - personally I didn't have to look that timeline up. So using that date, we have a winner. 5 years, 2 months. Thank you @Micklebot for being the voice of reason

From there, we traded Karlsson in September 2018, Stone and Duchene in February 2019, tearing it right down to the studs.

6 years, no playoffs.

The first year, fall of 2017, we certainly were thinking playoffs so 1 year of thinking playoffs and failing to do so.

The next 4 years, unquestionably there was no objective to make the playoffs.

This past season, you can reasonably argue it should have been an objective. We were close but no cigar which is where the pundits projected, but close enough that it hurts.

So I hope that clears it up.

We haven't been rebuilding for 7 years.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Yep it was for trade deadline in 2018, so ya it is 5 years.

Yes, officially the trade deadline of 2018 was when the marching orders came down.

Melnyk wasn't re-signing anyone either way though and that crappy roster in 2017-18 was getting torn apart one way or another, so it's splitting hairs.

It's like a 6 month period that's up for debate at best. Who cares.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Ok boys and girls

Can we agree that we went to the ECF in 2017? That should be easy to agree on, right?

On November 5, 2017 we acquired Duchene. Some of you might have to look that date up. I know I did. Can we agree that when we acquired Duchene we were not in a rebuild? That seems reasonable

Then what happened? We shit the bed. Dorion's rebuild plan was agreed to by Melnyk and first communicated in February 2018. You can look that up - personally I didn't have to look that timeline up. So using that date, we have a winner. 5 years, 2 months. Thank you @Micklebot for being the voice of reason

From there, we traded Karlsson in September 2018, Stone and Duchene in February 2019, tearing it right down to the studs.

6 years, no playoffs.

The first year, fall of 2017, we certainly were thinking playoffs so 1 year of thinking playoffs and failing to do so.

The next 4 years, unquestionably there was no objective to make the playoffs.

This past season, you can reasonably argue it should have been an objective. We were close but no cigar which is where the pundits projected, but close enough that it hurts.

So I hope that clears it up.

We haven't been rebuilding for 7 years.

When we went to the playoffs and acquired Duchene we were a bad team, sorry you couldn't see it.

But it was a bad team full of holes and weaknesses masked by a generational talent who could play more than half the game and elevate the play of 4 lines.

Dorion was too much of a dumbass to see it.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Yes, officially the trade deadline of 2018 was when the marching orders came down.

Melnyk wasn't re-signing anyone either way though and that crappy roster in 2017-18 was getting torn apart one way or another, so it's splitting hairs.

It's like a 6 month period that's up for debate at best. Who cares.

Nice so you agree it’s 5 years.

 

[swiftwin]

If we're measuring in Dorion years then sure.

But I can't think of any other example where the GM gets to claim how long the team has been rebuilding.

If you want to take incompetence personified at its word, be my guest.

It's a factual 5 years, 2 months, 11 days ago.

If you want to continue to believe it's been 7 years in your hallucinogenic imaginary world, be my guest.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Nice so you agree it’s 5 years.

I agree that it is less than 6

I can see why some see it as 5 and some as 5.5.

I think the difference is so small its not even worth the discussion. And I think we all know who decided it was happening, and he's passed away, so it matters even less now.

 

[Golden_Jet]

But I can't think of any other example where the GM gets to claim how long the team has been rebuilding.

Better than a fan on HFB.

 

[Knave]

Better than a fan on HFB.

It would be a good thing for you if I became GM. Your darling Dorion would no longer be in the discussion for worst GM in modern NHL history.

 

[Golden_Jet]

It would be a good thing for you if I became GM. Your darling Dorion would no longer be in the discussion for worst GM in modern NHL history.

Lmao, we would become an ECHL level team if that happened.
Oh and I’m fine if we move on from PD, just not sure it happens this year, due to the sale of team approval in 2-3 months. Sorry to disappoint.

Let alone your rebuttal has zero to do with when rebuilding starts.
Worst GM in history, sounds like you haven’t been around a long time then, if you have that short of a list.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

When we went to the playoffs and acquired Duchene we were a bad team, sorry you couldn't see it.

But it was a bad team full of holes and weaknesses masked by a generational talent who could play more than half the game and elevate the play of 4 lines.

Dorion was too much of a dumbass to see it.

I agree that team was sent out to die that season. That part I would never dispute and did not mean to imply.

And I'm sure Melnyk knew he wasn't doling out those contracts well before they officially decided to rebuild.

At this point though, I don't care anymore, and I can see legitimacy to both sides of the argument.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Super interesting to watch the doubling and tripling down on verifiably wrong things.

It‘s ok though, apparently we can simply decide what the dead guy was thinking to massage the narrative timeline!

Early offseason entertainment has begun.

 

[JD1]

When we went to the playoffs and acquired Duchene we were a bad team, sorry you couldn't see it.

But it was a bad team full of holes and weaknesses masked by a generational talent who could play more than half the game and elevate the play of 4 lines.

Dorion was too much of a dumbass to see it.

Your memory seems to fail you, we were never in the playoffs when we had Duchene.

 

[Sensinitis]

No we started rebuilding when Dorion put together the excrement that was the 2018 team that crashed and when Dorion was called to Barbados and extended.

That was 2017-2018, the year the team was bad enough to pick #4.

That was six years ago and we are now entering the 7th season since.

Lol that’s exactly what I said, except the nuance is that in 2017 we were striving to be a contending team. We were in the first few months in a fresh season post an ECF appearance and had just acquired Duchene the biggest forward fish available. The team doesn’t perform, the year turns to 2018 and the ship doesn’t turn with it, then the team decides to rebuild.

Hence 2018…

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

It's also weird that we're talking about the rebuild like it's still going on. It's not, per the guy running the show.

Dorion expects Senators to win: 'The rebuild is done'

Armed with a brand-new extension, Ottawa Senators general manager Pierre Dorion made some waves during his celebratory press conference with a bold proclamation."The rebuild is done. Now we're stepping into another zone," Dorion said, according to the Ottawa Sun's Bruce Garrioch.The Senators...

www.thescore.com

We're in a different phase and that comes with a different set of expectations.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Your memory seems to fail you, we were never in the playoffs when we had Duchene.

Lol that’s exactly what I said, except the nuance is that in 2017 we were striving to be a contending team. We were in the first few months in a fresh season post an ECF appearance and had just acquired Duchene the biggest forward fish available. The team doesn’t perform, the year turns to 2018 and the ship doesn’t turn with it, then the team decides to rebuild.

Hence 2018…

What I mean is that both the playoff team and the team that acquired Duchene the following season were bad teams. They relied on one player, and a team that depends on one player is by definition a bad team. It was predictable that the team would fall apart next season when that one player got injured and lost his natural ankle bone.


Dorion trading away his first and then being forced into a rebuild a month or two later is not a good thing. He f***ed up.

 

[JD1]

What I mean is that both the playoff team and the team that acquired Duchene the following season were bad teams. They relied on one player, and a team that depends on one player is by definition a bad team. It was predictable that the team would fall apart next season when that one player got injured and lost his natural ankle bone.


Dorion trading away his first and then being forced into a rebuild a month or two later is not a good thing. He f***ed up.

You just keep reworking it there Zub, you'll eventually land on something that won't be pushed back on.

But for clarity sakes, how few players can a team rely on and be considered good?

 

[GCK]

The tear down started at the 2018 TDL.

Rebuild started with Brady at the 2018 draft.

5 years of tear down and rebuild, not 6, not 7.

Dorion is not a good GM so I don’t understand the need to try and make him sound worse.

 

[JD1]

The tear down started at the 2018 TDL.

Rebuild started with Brady at the 2018 draft.

5 years of tear down and rebuild, not 6, not 7.

Dorion is not a good GM so I don’t understand the need to try and make him sound worse.

Lol.

That's a point I've made many times.

There's so much to legitimately criticize, there's no need to make shit up

 

[Golden_Jet]

What I mean is that both the playoff team and the team that acquired Duchene the following season were bad teams. They relied on one player, and a team that depends on one player is by definition a bad team. It was predictable that the team would fall apart next season when that one player got injured and lost his natural ankle bone.


Dorion trading away his first and then being forced into a rebuild a month or two later is not a good thing. He f***ed up.

Keep up the good faith.