Line Combos: GM/Coaching criticism

[zeke]

.... could I suggest the place you are referring to is below his waist and above his knees and on the back side of his body?

Bluelines also finally admitting we should never have listened to him!


Will wonders never cease?

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Thinking that Clifford and Muzzin were enough was a huge mistake. Dubas learned a lesson and added more.



Once we added Simmonds and Bogosian, I thought we were a contender. I did Winnipeg would be better and give us a run.

Was I supposed to be on board last year?

He wanted Bogosian before, just like he also wanted Brodie before. It isn't as though he has a magical wand he can wave and no one else has a say.

 

[weems]

Clifford -> Simmonds
Ceci -> Bogosian

That's what makes them a contender.

Is that what the advanced numbers are saying?

I would have said Bogosian looks like the better player. Maybe it's a usage thing but he seems to be alot more mobile and capable with the puck compared to Ceci.

 

[zeke]

Is that what the advanced numbers are saying?

I would have said Bogosian looks like the better player. Maybe it's a usage thing but he seems to be alot more mobile and capable with the puck compared to Ceci.

Those are arrows not better than signs.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

No reason to complain or gloat, agree 100%. On paper we should cruise to the semis so if we don't get there, huge failure obviously and if we do get there, that's when it will start to get interesting. Overall though I'd say Dubas deserves some credit for the team being ranked as high as it is (though to be fair, he was put in a dream position to begin with) and the coaching has been good as well. You could pick at some minor things but the same could be said for any coach I guess.



If that's what you think then you're listening to the wrong people. I suggest you look at what the bookmakers say, they're not always right but they're almost always pretty darn close. They had the Leafs as the best team in the North by far when the season started, that never changed during the season and after the season ended the Leafs were still huge favourites to win the north which directly contradicts your hilariously wrong contention that other teams were better built for the playoffs.

The bookmakers were right, just like they usually are. Pay less attention to twitter, your spreadsheets or wherever else you're getting your ideas from and pay more attention to what the bookmakers say. You're welcome.

Not sure I would call it a "dream position" to have no ELC signed players with one forced into holdout by another GM not doing his job, virtually no d - corps and an almost barren prospect pool. In under 3 years he's addressed pretty much everything and has a team whose only regular remaining from the "dream" was a #1 overall pick.

 

[weems]

Those are arrows not better than signs.

How would you rate Bogosians play?

 

[zeke]

How would you rate Bogosians play?

A very solid bottom pair dman.

 

[Gary Nylund]

It took you so long to finally realize this, Gary, but I'm glad you're finally aboard.

Thanks for finally admitting we should never have listened to you in the first place.

LOL "realize". I agreed all along with the bookmakers who had the Leafs as huge favourites whereas you just posted that the Leafs weren't built for the playoffs.

You just posted this a little while ago, how could you forget this already? Are you drunk?

Supposed to beat?

Leafs were supposed to be in a dogfight all year with teams that were better built for the playoffs than them.

You should have listened to me all along, unless you still think we're not "built for the playoffs"?

Sleep it off buddy.

Not sure I would call it a "dream position" to have no ELC signed players with one forced into holdout by another GM not doing his job, virtually no d - corps and an almost barren prospect pool. In under 3 years he's addressed pretty much everything and has a team whose only regular remaining from the "dream" was a #1 overall pick.

I think he's done a good job but I'm also guessing that no GM in NHL history has ever had that good a situation for his first job as GM. Matthews, Marner, Nylander at ages 20-21 and a team that just finished 6th overall, looks pretty dreamy to me.

 

[Leaf Fans]

he also said in seasons prior that he heard around the league that teams felt like they could come in and push us around. When asked about their lack of physicality... He said he believes in what he is doing and that people would judge them based on results.

they then lost 2 first round playoff series.

so we did judge. Fail.

And he went out and got some gritty leadership.

nothing wrong with correcting mistakes.

Of course not. Nothing wrong with learning. Nothing wrong with anything like that.

 

[ACC1224]

For the first time in a very long time I can’t think of anyone I don’t like on the team including the Coach and GM. Refreshing change.

 

[zeke]

LOL "realize". I agreed all along with the bookmakers who had the Leafs as huge favourites whereas you just posted that the Leafs weren't built for the playoffs.

You just posted this a little while ago, how could you forget this already? Are you drunk?

You should have listened to me all along, unless you still think we're not "built for the playoffs"?

Gary is now claiming he said the leafs would waltz into 1st place and the final four (as Vegas predicted) all along.

Amazing.

Anyways, Gary, welcome aboard. Took you a while.

I think he's done a good job but I'm also guessing that no GM in NHL history has ever had that good a situation for his first job as GM. Matthews, Marner, Nylander at ages 20-21 and a team that just finished 6th overall, looks pretty dreamy to me.

You'll be shocked to learn that the GM before him also was handed those same 3 players...but even more amazingly he had them for 3yrs on ELCs!

 

[Gary Nylund]

Supposed to beat?

Leafs were supposed to be in a dogfight all year with teams that were better built for the playoffs than them.

It took you so long to finally realize this, Gary, but I'm glad you're finally aboard.

Thanks for finally admitting we should never have listened to you in the first place.

I never agreed with you to begin so not "aboard" with you now.

Gary is now claiming he said the leafs would waltz into 1st place and the final four (as Vegas predicted) all along.

Amazing.

Anyways, Gary, welcome aboard. Took you a while.

I never used the word "waltz" but I did say from the start the the Leafs were huge favourites to win the North.

You just posted that the Leafs weren't built for the playoffs so no I'm not "aboard" with you. You seem to be having a lot of trouble with this, not sure how I could put it any more clearly.

You'll be shocked to learn that the GM before him also was handed those same 3 players...but even more amazingly he had them for 3yrs on ELCs!

Read my post again, you'll be shocked to learn that neither I or the post I was responding to mentioned any GM's other than Dubas. Sober up or drink some coffee or do something for crissakes, you seem to be having a lot of trouble following the conversation.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

I think he's done a good job but I'm also guessing that no GM in NHL history has ever had that good a situation for his first job as GM. Matthews, Marner, Nylander at ages 20-21 and a team that just finished 6th overall, looks pretty dreamy to me.

He was at the helm when Marner was selected and Matthews was first overall. That roster that finished 6th overall sucked compared to this one. No prospect pool. ELC into holdout. two albatross contracts. No 2 C. No real D corps. Questionable starter.

Absolute dream.

There's a long list of GMs that started in far more favorable positions (Bowman, Chiarelli, Shero etc.). Did you know when Bowman won, not a single player on his winning team was not in the organization before he was given the job? Not one. Comparatively Dubas has added the 1 G, 2 C (actual 1 C on many teams) and almost all of the d-corps, let alone several other pieces. If the inherited team were such a dream, one would wonder why any of that was necessary?

 

[Gary Nylund]

He was at the helm when Marner was selected and Matthews was first overall. That roster that finished 6th overall sucked compared to this one. No prospect pool. ELC into holdout. two albatross contracts. No 2 C. No real D corps. Questionable starter.

Absolute dream.

I agree he's done a good job. Having said that, the team he took over was stacked with young talent and finished tied for 6-7 overall, the current team finished tied for 5-7 overall so not much difference there. PTS% is better but schedule is easier so not sure what to say, maybe the truth is that the team's not that much better than the one he took over? I do like this roster better than the one he took over but I think we need to see them beat a good team in the playoffs before praising them too much.

Anyhow, no situation is perfect but I would say it was pretty dreamy. At least I can't think of a rookie GM ever who walked into a better situation.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

I agree he's done a good job. Having said that, the team he took over was stacked with young talent and finished tied for 6-7 overall, the current team finished tied for 5-7 overall so not much difference there. PTS% is better but schedule is easier so not sure what to say, maybe the truth is that the team's not that much better than the one he took over? I do like this roster better than the one he took over but I think we need to see them beat a good team in the playoffs before praising them too much.

Anyhow, no situation is perfect but I would say it was pretty dreamy. At least I can't think of a rookie GM ever who walked into a better situation.

This roster is much better built and built for long term. Fawning over what was inherited is like saying I got a Ferrari and ignoring it has a wonky engine, no transmission, balding tires and you don't have bankroll for repairs.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Anyhow, no situation is perfect but I would say it was pretty dreamy. At least I can't think of a rookie GM ever who walked into a better situation.

Ummmm....Stan Bowman? Not one single player on his Cup winning team was not in the organization when he started.

 

[Pookie]

This roster is much better built and built for long term. Fawning over what was inherited is like saying I got a Ferrari and ignoring it has a wonky engine, no transmission, balding tires and you don't have bankroll for repairs.

but yet you still inherited the Ferrari. Without inheriting it, you wouldn’t have one.

businesses are passed down through generations of family members. They all have their part in the legacy. Sure you might run the family business well but you absolutely have to be thankful for your parents and their parents who started it and kept it going for the handoff.

I will never understand the desire to prop up one over another. It’s all part of the evolution of the franchise.

culture change, party culture and work ethic was the focus of the org 5-6 years ago. Shanahan recruited Lou and Babcock for a reason.

when the stars tuned him out, it was time for a change. But the culture... hopefully... remains.

Each past leader and current leader have a share in the success and failure of the club.

not sure why this is so hard for some to acknowledge.

 

[Gary Nylund]

This roster is much better built and built for long term. Fawning over what was inherited is like saying I got a Ferrari and ignoring it has a wonky engine, no transmission, balding tires and you don't have bankroll for repairs.

I think you're hugely overstating the problems. The team finished tied for 5th overall and the budding superstars at the core had yet to enter their prime. That collection of young talent was the envy of most teams in the league, most GM's would love to have that kind of talent to work with never mind rookie GMs.

Ummmm....Stan Bowman? Not one single player on his Cup winning team was not in the organization when he started.

OK that's one. Is there anyone else or did Dubas step into the second best situation of any rookie GM in NHL history?

I think it's really hard to argue that the situation Dubas took over wasn't incredibly attractive. Matthews, Marner and Nylander all not even in their prime yet, 5th overall ...

 

[ACC1224]

There’s no doubt Dubas was gifted a great team (top 4 forwards and #1 D and G) and he seems to have made the necessary additions needed. A year too late but better late than never.

 

[zeke]

I never agreed with you to begin so not "aboard" with you now.



I never used the word "waltz" but I did say from the start the the Leafs were huge favourites to win the North.

You just posted that the Leafs weren't built for the playoffs so no I'm not "aboard" with you. You seem to be having a lot of trouble with this, not sure how I could put it any more clearly.

Welcome aboard Gary! I knew you'd see the light eventually. Now you no longer doubt the odds makers like at the start of the year. Good on you.

Can't wait to see you celebrate that first round victory you have told us so many times is a meaningful accomplishment!

Read my post again, you'll be shocked to learn that neither I or the post I was responding to mentioned any GM's other than Dubas. Sober up or drink some coffee or do something for crissakes, you seem to be having a lot of trouble following the conversation.

OK so I read your post again and it STILL says that dubas was put into the best position of any GM in the history of the league!

So I thought you might be surprised to see that literally the previous GM Inherited an even better position!

Amazing but true!

 

[zeke]

There’s no doubt Dubas was gifted a great team (top 4 forwards and #1 D and G) and he seems to have made the necessary additions needed. A year too late but better late than never.

That G that he inherited is the biggest reason he was ever perceived as a bad GM actually.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Supposed to beat?

Leafs were supposed to be in a dogfight all year with teams that were better built for the playoffs than them.

Welcome aboard Gary! I knew you'd see the light eventually. Now you no longer doubt the odds makers like at the start of the year. Good on you.

Can't wait to see you celebrate that first round victory you have told us so many times is a meaningful accomplishment!

OK so I read your post again and it STILL says that dubas was put into a rarely great situation compared to other gms.

So I thought you might be surprised to see that literally the previous GM Inherited an even better position!

Amazing but true!

I never doubted the odds makers, why are you lying? It seems you still have your doubts though, or did someone hack your account to post the nonsense in the above post that the Leafs aren't built for the playoffs?

Beating any team in the playoffs is meaningful. We're also such heavy favourites that it's not really cause for celebration either IMHO.

You've talked a lot about how Matthews is the best player in the league, even better than McDavid. Pretty weird for you to think that Lou without Matthews had a better situation than Dubas with Matthews. Or have you changed your mind and you longer consider Matthews to be a significant asset? If so then I'll save you some time and tell you right away - I am not "aboard" with you.

 

[zeke]

I never doubted the odds makers, why are you lying? It seems you still have your doubts though, or did someone hack your account to post the nonsense in the above post that the Leafs aren't built for the playoffs?

I am so, so glad for you that you are no longer doubting the odds makers.

Beating any team in the playoffs is meaningful. We're also such heavy favourites that it's not really cause for celebration either IMHO.

What? Now you care about the quality of opponent? Since when?

You've talked a lot about how Matthews is the best player in the league, even better than McDavid. Pretty weird for you to think that Lou without Matthews had a better situation than Dubas with Matthews. Or have you changed your mind and you longer consider Matthews to be a significant asset? If so then I'll save you some time and tell you right away - I am not "aboard" with you.

Lou was handed Matthews, Marner, and Nylander.....ON ELCs!!!

Amazing, but true!

 

[Gary Nylund]

That G that he inherited is the biggest reason he was ever perceived as a bad GM actually.

LOL no, the goalie was really good for a while and a big part of why the team Dubas took over had success from the getgo. And if Dubas didn't like him then he had years to replace him but he chose not to.

I'd say the reason some people didn't like him was his youth and inexperience. That's actually understandable to some degree so even though I didn't agree with those people, I can at least see where they were coming from.

 

[zeke]

LOL no, the goalie was really good for a while and a big part of why the team Dubas took over had success from the getgo. And if Dubas didn't like him then he had years to replace him but he chose not to.

I'd say the reason some people didn't like him was his youth and inexperience. That's actually understandable to some degree so even though I didn't agree with those people, I can at least see where they were coming from.

Andersen's fall off in year 2 and then again in year 3 were the only reason the leafs ever looked "worse" under dubas, even as all their other numbers improved. What's worse is that his unimpeachable reputation amongst leafs fans and media means he never got the blame that he deserved.

Also, the coach dubas got saddled with also screwed him.