Line Combos: GM/Coaching criticism

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I am so, so glad for you that you are no longer doubting the odds makers.

Show me one post ever where I said I don't agree with the bookmakers who had the Leafs as one of the top contenders since before the season started. You can't do it because it never happened.

You lie so often and keep repeating the same lies, have you no shame at all? Does the truth not matter to you even a tiny little bit? Where's your self-respect man?

What? Now you care about the quality of opponent? Since when?

Since always.

Lou was handed Matthews, Marner, and Nylander.....ON ELCs!!!

Amazing, but true!

You're obsessed with Lou it seems, I'm not. Dubas walked into a dreamy situation, Lou or no Lou doesn't change that simple fact.
 
Andersen's fall off in year 2 and then again in year 3 were the only reason the leafs ever looked "worse" under dubas, even as all their other numbers improved. What's worse is that his unimpeachable reputation amongst leafs fans and media means he never got the blame that he deserved.

Also, the coach dubas got saddled with also screwed him.

Dubas had plenty of time to change the goalie and he never did so hard to complain about it now.
 
Dubas had plenty of time to change the goalie and he never did so hard to complain about it now.

I'll never get the "plenty of time" or "finally" stuff. He's literally done all of this in about 2 1/2 years. How fast is he supposed to go? 1 G, 2 C (1 C on most teams), completely rebuilt D, depth at all positions, rebuilt prospect pool, shedding of bad contracts.....in 2.5 years. While in a pandemic with a flat cap. His done all of that in less time than it took the previous regime to address our biggest need with.....wait for it.....Hainsey and Zaitsev.
 
Bluelines also finally admitting we should never have listened to him!


Will wonders never cease?

When you say the Leafs are going to be great every year, you’ll eventually be right.... but you’ve been wrong until this season.

This team finally is great. You’re finally right. That’s why I finally agree.
 
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Show me one post ever where I said I don't agree with the bookmakers who had the Leafs as one of the top contenders since before the season started. You can't do it because it never happened.

You lie so often and keep repeating the same lies, have you no shame at all? Does the truth not matter to you even a tiny little bit? Where's your self-respect man?

Self-respect is important. Agreed. It requires admitting when you are wrong.

Since always.

More falsity. You have in fact angrily ATTACKED those of us who have ever brought up opponent quality before.

And now you believe it is more important than, as you call them, "wins".



You're obsessed with Lou it seems, I'm not. Dubas walked into a dreamy situation, Lou or no Lou doesn't change that simple fact.

Dubas is far, far from the only GM to inherit elite talent, as you falsely claimed.

Many, many other GMs have inherited elite talents, but with the benefit of inheriting them for dirt cheap, while at the same time not being saddled with a buttload of horrendous contracts by their predecessor.
 
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Winnipeg is close to us on paper. Many choose their top 6 over ours, along with the 2nd best goalie in the world.

Montreal was the pick of many experts based on their FA signings and through coaching and development our team has lapped theirs.

:laugh::laugh::laugh: Winnipeg is close to the Leafs? "many" choose theirs? like who? the brainless idiots at the sports stations that are routinely wrong?

Peg had Connor with a Vezina year in net and had 14 less points than Toronto.. and you truly believe anything you just wrote? cmon.
 
There’s no doubt Dubas was gifted a great team (top 4 forwards and #1 D and G) and he seems to have made the necessary additions needed. A year too late but better late than never.

Two of the top 4 forwards are from under Dubas' watch and both the 1D and 1G have large question marks.
 
The claim was that he was lucky to inherit a good #1 goalie.

He did not. He inherited a goalie that was decent for one year (half a year really) and then quickly fell off.
And he went out and got a guy who had all the potential in the world to be a #1. The moment he stepped on the ice for the leafs we knew right away. I trust Dubs
 
Winnipeg is close to us on paper. Many choose their top 6 over ours, along with the 2nd best goalie in the world.

Anyone who thinks Winnipeg has a better top 6 seriously does not understand hockey.

There's a reason season after season Winnipeg gets caved in on shot attempts and scoring chances. Their best players outside of Ehlers are all terrible defensively. Guys like Matthews and Marner are still better offensively, but the defensive gap is far bigger.

Its hilarious how often Hellebuyck has to bail them out and people still think Winnipeg is stacked with elite players. It makes no sense. Whereas we have this reputation as an offense only team but we're actually stacked with great defensive players and usually control play.
 
I think you're hugely overstating the problems. The team finished tied for 5th overall and the budding superstars at the core had yet to enter their prime. That collection of young talent was the envy of most teams in the league, most GM's would love to have that kind of talent to work with never mind rookie GMs.



OK that's one. Is there anyone else or did Dubas step into the second best situation of any rookie GM in NHL history?

I think it's really hard to argue that the situation Dubas took over wasn't incredibly attractive. Matthews, Marner and Nylander all not even in their prime yet, 5th overall ...

The team had almost zero prospect pipeline, two terrible contracts, a terrible d-corps (if you want to go far) etc. Having to correct that many problems is no easy feat. Why aren't teams like Edmonton flourishing? I mean...McDavid, Draisaitl, RNH, right?

Also, why are you limiting your criteria to "rookie" GM (other than the obvious answer which is that it's your only way to push an agenda)? I provided you with several other examples of GMs walking into better positions (although come to think of it I believe Chiarelli was also a rookie GM).
 
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but yet you still inherited the Ferrari. Without inheriting it, you wouldn’t have one.

businesses are passed down through generations of family members. They all have their part in the legacy. Sure you might run the family business well but you absolutely have to be thankful for your parents and their parents who started it and kept it going for the handoff.

I will never understand the desire to prop up one over another. It’s all part of the evolution of the franchise.

culture change, party culture and work ethic was the focus of the org 5-6 years ago. Shanahan recruited Lou and Babcock for a reason.

when the stars tuned him out, it was time for a change. But the culture... hopefully... remains.

Each past leader and current leader have a share in the success and failure of the club.

not sure why this is so hard for some to acknowledge.

Perhaps if you followed the discussion it would be more obvious. Inheriting a Ferrari that has to be 75% rebuilt while you have no bankroll isn't really the "dream" some describe it to be.

There's also plenty of room for debate on the "culture".
 
Perhaps if you followed the discussion it would be more obvious. Inheriting a Ferrari that has to be 75% rebuilt while you have no bankroll isn't really the "dream" some describe it to be.

There's also plenty of room for debate on the "culture".

He had no bankroll when he started? A bit of revisionist history I think.
 
Perhaps if you followed the discussion it would be more obvious. Inheriting a Ferrari that has to be 75% rebuilt while you have no bankroll isn't really the "dream" some describe it to be.

There's also plenty of room for debate on the "culture".

the first point is silly. Dubas signed the stars as RFAs. Meaning they were in the system.

in terms of culture, debate all you want.

what we know is that Shanahan had every resource available to him including a money truck and he went after Lou and Babcock specifically.

he played for them. He knew what he wanted. That is no coincidence.

And thanks to Rick Westhead at TSN, we know that a Leafs exec went to Toronto Police to discuss cocaine use around the team in 2015.

from these things we can conclude with both logic and confidence that creating a culture that was conducive to development was Shanahan’s priority early on.
 
I'll never get the "plenty of time" or "finally" stuff. He's literally done all of this in about 2 1/2 years. How fast is he supposed to go? 1 G, 2 C (1 C on most teams), completely rebuilt D, depth at all positions, rebuilt prospect pool, shedding of bad contracts.....in 2.5 years. While in a pandemic with a flat cap. His done all of that in less time than it took the previous regime to address our biggest need with.....wait for it.....Hainsey and Zaitsev.

I'm not criticizing him for going slow, I never said that at all. I'm just saying that he's changed a lot of things but he never changed the goalile so can't really complain about being stuck with him

Self-respect is important. Agreed. It requires admitting when you are wrong.

More falsity. You have in fact angrily ATTACKED those of us who have ever brought up opponent quality before.

And now you believe it is more important than, as you call them, "wins".

Dubas is far, far from the only GM to inherit elite talent, as you falsely claimed.

Many, many other GMs have inherited elite talents, but with the benefit of inheriting them for dirt cheap, while at the same time not being saddled with a buttload of horrendous contracts by their predecessor.

I've never seen you admit you're wrong about anything. If you say that means you don't have any self-respect then I won't argue with you.

I've never attacked anyone for bring up opponent quality, more lies. Go ahead and show me where I ever did so, you can't do it because it never happened.

Believe ...more ... important ... what are you even talking about now? Winning is always the goal, quality of opponent only helps give context to how big an achievement winning is or how big a disappointment losing is. It's not complicated, at least it doesn't seem that way to me. What part are you having trouble with?

I never said Dubas is the only GM to inherit elite talent, more lies.

That's an awful lot of lies in a very short time. But since you admitted you don't have any self-respect, I guess there's no reason to be surprised.

The claim was that he was lucky to inherit a good #1 goalie.

He did not. He inherited a goalie that was decent for one year (half a year really) and then quickly fell off.

The only thing I "claimed" was that if he didn't like the goalie, he's had years to replace him. The fact that he hasn't done so speaks for itself.

The team had almost zero prospect pipeline, two terrible contracts, a terrible d-corps (if you want to go far) etc. Having to correct that many problems is no easy feat. Why aren't teams like Edmonton flourishing? I mean...McDavid, Draisaitl, RNH, right?

Also, why are you limiting your criteria to "rookie" GM (other than the obvious answer which is that it's your only way to push an agenda)? I provided you with several other examples of GMs walking into better positions (although come to think of it I believe Chiarelli was also a rookie GM).

OK forget"rookie" if that bothers you. I guess we'll just agree to disagree on this one. 6th overall with some of the brightest young stars in the world, seems like the situation was pretty rosy to me. Pretty much the entire hockey world saw the Leafs as a young team on the rise, not at all the bleak picture you're painting, not even close.
 
Bluelines also finally admitting we should never have listened to him!


Will wonders never cease?

If this is what you took from my playful banter, you may want to avoid reading anything ever again.

I love the way you intentionally misinterpret the written word to twist a comment in your favor.... sad, desperate, pathetic and comical ... all at the same time.

If you were tested today at what grade level are you reading skills scored at?
 
:laugh::laugh::laugh: Winnipeg is close to the Leafs? "many" choose theirs? like who? the brainless idiots at the sports stations that are routinely wrong?

Peg had Connor with a Vezina year in net and had 14 less points than Toronto.. and you truly believe anything you just wrote? cmon.

take it up with the folks at Daily Faceoff

Winnipeg top line
FL1 Rating
Rating: 77.55#10 FL1

Toronto top line
FL1 Rating
Rating: 77.83#6 FL1

Very Close

Winnipeg second line
FL2 Rating
Rating: 75.03#8 FL2

Toronto second line-Without JT
FL2 Rating
Rating: 72.58#21 FL2
 
That awkward moment when this thread turns from criticizing the coach and GM to roasting fellow Leafs fans...
 
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Show me one post ever where I said I don't agree with the bookmakers who had the Leafs as one of the top contenders since before the season started. You can't do it because it never happened.

You lie so often and keep repeating the same lies, have you no shame at all? Does the truth not matter to you even a tiny little bit? Where's your self-respect man?

Since always.

You're obsessed with Lou it seems, I'm not. Dubas walked into a dreamy situation, Lou or no Lou doesn't change that simple fact.


Gary check your PM
 
take it up with the folks at Daily Faceoff

Winnipeg top line
FL1 Rating
Rating: 77.55#10 FL1

Toronto top line
FL1 Rating
Rating: 77.83#6 FL1

Very Close

Winnipeg second line
FL2 Rating
Rating: 75.03#8 FL2

Toronto second line-Without JT
FL2 Rating
Rating: 72.58#21 FL2

Fascinating stuff. Here's my rebuttal:
TOR - PTS% .688
WPG - PTS% .563

There should be a designated thread for Leafs fans bickering at eachother.

You've just described 99% of the threads in existence.
 
I've never seen you admit you're wrong about anything.

You have.

I've never attacked anyone for bring up opponent quality, more lies. Go ahead and show me where I ever did so, you can't do it because it never happened.

You have attacked and mocked me personally - multiple times - for valuing a good performance against an elite playoffs opponent over a playoffs win against a bad opponent.

Believe ...more ... important ... what are you even talking about now? Winning is always the goal, quality of opponent only helps give context to how big an achievement winning is or how big a disappointment losing is. It's not complicated, at least it doesn't seem that way to me. What part are you having trouble with?

You specifically mocked any notion of quality of opponent mattering more than wins when the leafs didn't win, and now are already dismissing a potential playoffs win due to opponent quality.

I'm not having trouble with this. That's you.


I never said Dubas is the only GM to inherit elite talent, more lies.

You literally posted that he jumped into the best situation any GM ever has. Just a few posts ago. Seems like the real issue here is you don't remember anything you post.

That's an awful lot of lies in a very short time. But since you admitted you don't have any self-respect, I guess there's no reason to be surprised.

Not a single lie. At least not by me.



The only thing I "claimed" was that if he didn't like the goalie, he's had years to replace him. The fact that he hasn't done so speaks for itself.

I didn't say you claimed that. I said that was the claim I quoted and responded to, and which you then jumped in on.

Again, the claim was that he was gifted a good starting goalie. I responded to that by noting he only inherited a goalie that was decent for part of the first year and then fell apart. Then you jumped in with your usual dishonesty.
 
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If this is what you took from my playful banter, you may want to avoid reading anything ever again.

I love the way you intentionally misinterpret the written word to twist a comment in your favor.... sad, desperate, pathetic and comical ... all at the same time.

If you were tested today at what grade level are you reading skills scored at?


Welcome on board, bluelines. Took you a while but we don't hold grudges on this boat.
 
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Gary check your PM

tenor.gif
 

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