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Line Combos: GM/Coaching criticism

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Winnipeg is close to us on paper. Many choose their top 6 over ours, along with the 2nd best goalie in the world.

Montreal was the pick of many experts based on their FA signings and through coaching and development our team has lapped theirs.
 
Menzinger said:
I think there's been a group of fans who have been pretty skeptical about this team/gm/coach over the season, so not sure I'd agree everyone has been on the same page about the team. Quite the opposite in fact.
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I've been happy with Dubas since he's admitted his mistake in not valuing leadership and grit and then taking steps to correct it.

I can't speak for others.

As for Keefe. Meh. A Coach is a Coach.

Babcock developed the work ethic. Babcock was recruited to change a culture that apparently was so challenging that the management team went to the Cops to discuss Cocaine around the team.

He did that.

But pissed off the star over his ice time. Keefe loosened the reigns and let the star players have what they wanted.

It's all a spectrum. Keefe's approach will have an expiry date and we'll move on when it's time.

In the end, it has always been up to the players.

Bottom line... we have Montreal within a game of the golf course. That is ALL that matters right now.

Crack open a beer. Enjoy Thursday night. This should be the first time the Leafs have beat the Habs in a playoff series since 1967.

I'm not interested in bickering with anyone at this point.

:)
 
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Menzinger said:
I think there's been a group of fans who have been pretty skeptical about this team/gm/coach over the season, so not sure I'd agree everyone has been on the same page about the team. Quite the opposite in fact.
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You are not wrong many of those skeptics were ecstatic after the game 1 lost. These same people predicted the Leafs would be a .500 team in the regular season. Then you evidently have the same people taking thin wielded shots creating a myth that Dubas like only skilled played instead of a mix. When you can take two seconds to look at who he first acquired and you would realized some people live through some sad narrative driven lives. Its amazing to watch a team with defensive structured play and knows how to breakout multiple ways instead of that stupid stretch pass.
 
Dreakmur said:
I think the record is pretty good because roster is pretty good. We have yet to play a team that is even close to us on paper.

Beating teams that you're supposed to beat doesn't really tell you anything.

.
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Supposed to beat?

Leafs were supposed to be in a dogfight all year with teams that were better built for the playoffs than them.
 
Dreakmur said:
We've gone over this several times. You and I disagree. Neither of us is going to change our minds.
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Why won't you change your mind that adding simmonds, Thornton, Bogosian is no different than adding Clifford, Spezza, muzzin?



Yes, the Leafs are easily the best team in the division.
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Took you a while to see it tho.

But welcome aboard.
 
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They will be back after the next loss. If we get to the second round they will be whining about the same things. Haven't won a playoff round will become haven't won two and then they will trash the division and pretend it was easy.
 
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zeke said:
Why won't you change your mind that adding simmonds, Thornton, Bogosian is no different than adding Clifford, Spezza, muzzin?
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Thinking that Clifford and Muzzin were enough was a huge mistake. Dubas learned a lesson and added more.

Took you a while to see it tho.

But welcome aboard.
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Once we added Simmonds and Bogosian, I thought we were a contender. I did Winnipeg would be better and give us a run.

Was I supposed to be on board last year?
 
Dreakmur said:
Once we added Simmonds and Bogosian, I thought we were a contender. I did Winnipeg would be better and give us a run.

Was I supposed to be on board last year?
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You decided they were a contender based on signing a 4th line winger and a #6 dman?

Replacing Clifford and ceci with simmonds and bogo was when they became elite?
 
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zeke said:
Why won't you change your mind that adding simmonds, Thornton, Bogosian is no different than adding Clifford, Spezza, muzzin?





Took you a while to see it tho.

But welcome aboard.
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For some reason the Dubas detractors refuse to acknowledge that he traded for Muzzin and Clifford. I’ll never understand it
 
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Stonehands1990 said:
For some reason the Dubas detractors refuse to acknowledge that he traded for Muzzin and Clifford. I’ll never understand it
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Of all the additions Dubas has made..

..Tavares, Muzzin, Brodie, Campbell, Mikheyev, Kerfoot, Spezza, Galchenyuk, Thornton, Sandin....

...what made us a contender was Simmonds and Bogosian replacing Clifford and Ceci.
 
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Stonehands1990 said:
For some reason the Dubas detractors refuse to acknowledge that he traded for Muzzin and Clifford. I’ll never understand it
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after giving up Martin and then giving up assets for rental.

hey, in terms of refusing to acknowledge... when Dubas said, I made a mistake in not valuing leadership... is that something you were aware of?

again, not looking to bicker. We are on the verge of knocking out Montreal.

Just a little reality is a good thing.

long way to go here. First Montreal. Then Winnipeg.

anything less is a failure.
 
Pookie said:
after giving up Martin and then giving up assets for rental.

hey, in terms of refusing to acknowledge... when Dubas said, I made a mistake in not valuing leadership... is that something you were aware of?

again, not looking to bicker. We are on the verge of knocking out Montreal.

Just a little reality is a good thing.

long way to go here. First Montreal. Then Winnipeg.

anything less is a failure.
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Martin was traded because Babcock wasn’t playing him. That’s not on Dubas

And we don’t pay that much for 4th liners, other teams can do that
 
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zeke said:
Of all the additions Dubas has made..

..Tavares, Muzzin, Brodie, Campbell, Mikheyev, Kerfoot, Spezza, Galchenyuk, Thornton, Sandin....

...what made us a contender was Simmonds and Bogosian replacing Clifford and Ceci.
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Wow that’s a crazy list....and we still have a few guys in the minors cooking away. This Dubas guy might be a genius after all..those are all solid players
 
Pookie said:
after giving up Martin and then giving up assets for rental.

hey, in terms of refusing to acknowledge... when Dubas said, I made a mistake in not valuing leadership... is that something you were aware of?

again, not looking to bicker. We are on the verge of knocking out Montreal.

Just a little reality is a good thing.

long way to go here. First Montreal. Then Winnipeg.

anything less is a failure.
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He said that he had underestimated the value of leadership.
 
Dreakmur said:
I think the record is pretty good because roster is pretty good. We have yet to play a team that is even close to us on paper.

Beating teams that you're supposed to beat doesn't really tell you anything.

In the few situations that would actually tell you something about the coaching, it's been both good and bad.

No reason to complain, and no reason to gloat.

Most people should be happy. There are a few things I don't like, but the vast majority has been good. We've finally assembled a team that brings a multitude of different aspects. I like the mix.
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No reason to complain or gloat, agree 100%. On paper we should cruise to the semis so if we don't get there, huge failure obviously and if we do get there, that's when it will start to get interesting. Overall though I'd say Dubas deserves some credit for the team being ranked as high as it is (though to be fair, he was put in a dream position to begin with) and the coaching has been good as well. You could pick at some minor things but the same could be said for any coach I guess.

zeke said:
Supposed to beat?

Leafs were supposed to be in a dogfight all year with teams that were better built for the playoffs than them.
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If that's what you think then you're listening to the wrong people. I suggest you look at what the bookmakers say, they're not always right but they're almost always pretty darn close. They had the Leafs as the best team in the North by far when the season started, that never changed during the season and after the season ended the Leafs were still huge favourites to win the north which directly contradicts your hilariously wrong contention that other teams were better built for the playoffs.

The bookmakers were right, just like they usually are. Pay less attention to twitter, your spreadsheets or wherever else you're getting your ideas from and pay more attention to what the bookmakers say. You're welcome.
 
Well the media is telling us that since they are dominating the Habs Dubas made all the right moves in the off season, they called his moves boring smart hockey.

If they lose a series in the playoffs, it will be, he didn't go get Hall, he didn't go get who ever former scoring star... he didn't find a true #1 dman, he didn't find adequate goaltending, he over estimated the impact of the vets on the team... really it comes down to how the team is performing at the time you are asked for criticisms on the coach or GM..
 
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Gary Nylund said:
No reason to complain or gloat, agree 100%. On paper we should cruise to the semis so if we don't get there, huge failure obviously and if we do get there, that's when it will start to get interesting. Overall though I'd say Dubas deserves some credit for the team being ranked as high as it is (though to be fair, he was put in a dream position to begin with) and the coaching has been good as well. You could pick at some minor things but the same could be said for any coach I guess.



If that's what you think then you're listening to the wrong people. I suggest you look at what the bookmakers say, they're not always right but they're almost always pretty darn close. They had the Leafs as the best team in the North by far when the season started, that never changed during the season and after the season ended the Leafs were still huge favourites to win the north which directly contradicts your hilariously wrong contention that other teams were better built for the playoffs.

The bookmakers were right, just like they usually are. Pay less attention to twitter, your spreadsheets or wherever else you're getting your ideas from and pay more attention to what the bookmakers say. You're welcome.
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.... could I suggest the place you are referring to is below his waist and above his knees and on the back side of his body? :)
 
Leaf Fans said:
He said that he had underestimated the value of leadership.
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he also said in seasons prior that he heard around the league that teams felt like they could come in and push us around. When asked about their lack of physicality... He said he believes in what he is doing and that people would judge them based on results.

they then lost 2 first round playoff series.

so we did judge. Fail.

And he went out and got some gritty leadership.

nothing wrong with correcting mistakes.
 
Gary Nylund said:
If that's what you think then you're listening to the wrong people. I suggest you look at what the bookmakers say, they're not always right but they're almost always pretty darn close. They had the Leafs as the best team in the North by far when the season started, that never changed during the season and after the season ended the Leafs were still huge favourites to win the north which directly contradicts your hilariously wrong contention that other teams were better built for the playoffs.

The bookmakers were right, just like they usually are. Pay less attention to twitter, your spreadsheets or wherever else you're getting your ideas from and pay more attention to what the bookmakers say. You're welcome.
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It took you so long to finally realize this, Gary, but I'm glad you're finally aboard.

Thanks for finally admitting we should never have listened to you in the first place.
 
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