GDT: GM#54 LA Kings vs Philadelphia Flyers @4:00pm 2/7/19

[Ollie Weeks]

For me, finishing in the black hole is almost acceptable if its due to the youth taking the next step, rather than a last gasp from out vets.

 

[Sol]

For me, finishing in the black hole is almost acceptable if its due to the youth taking the next step, rather than a last gasp from out vets.

This is how I feel. Winning is cool but tanking is cooler for the future.

 

[KingsFan7824]

The Blackhawks were a powerhouse after getting rid of pieces post 2010 cup. The Penguins went nearly a decade with just a few key players but a lot of roster turnover between cups. The Kings seemed like they wanted to keep everyone together as much as possible.

The Hawks were a powerhouse because they first won while Kane and Toews were on their ELC's. They had time. The Pens got to the Final with both Crosby and Malkin on their ELC's. The Kings got out of the 1st round only after both Kopitar and Doughty were already on their 2nd deals. The Kings had a shorter window, because the drafting from before 2012 was almost as bad as the drafting after 2012. Plus lose Voynov for nothing, and end up trading Schenn and Simmonds for maybe 3 years of a player.

 

[AKAY47]

So what are we cheering for here? I'm so confused. I want this group to win because I understand Doughty & Kopitar aren't getting any younger and winning is a culture you want to set for the young guys (like Kempe, Ladue, Wagner, Amadio, Walker etc). But at the same time, I don't want them to keep winning and miss the playoffs, get 10th overall in the draft and miss out on a top pick. Nor do I want them to make the playoffs and get swept in the first round, like last year.

What do we do LOL? It's a mind ****.

 

[LAKings88]

So what are we cheering for here? I'm so confused. I want this group to win because I understand Doughty & Kopitar aren't getting any younger and winning is a culture you want to set for the young guys (like Kempe, Ladue, Wagner, Amadio, Walker etc). But at the same time, I don't want them to keep winning and miss the playoffs, get 10th overall in the draft and miss out on a top pick. Nor do I want them to make the playoffs and get swept in the first round, like last year.

What do we do LOL? It's a mind ****.

At this point just accept it. Fans have no control anyway. Boston and the Caps will be a good test for LA. If they win those two games things could get real interesting.

 

[BallPointHammer]

As long as the young guys play so they have a chance to show what they can do backing off "right now" on the purge is okay. At the draft might be better anyway. Rob Blake please stay on course, do not "add now" for some desperate playoff run.

 

[AKAY47]

No, I agree with not adding. Stay the course, for sure. Although the Kings are 5 points out of a playoff spot, there's still like 5 teams to jump ahead of. I want a top 3 pick in the draft because I don't know if this team has a deep playoff run in them. Long term, the best thing to do would be to punt this season, pick in the top 3 and keep building through the draft and adding to the prospect pool.

I just think Doughty, Kopitar, Brown, Quick have way too much pride to just tank the season. I also don't blame them, they're not getting any younger.

 

[KingPuckChoo]

the West is weak
Kings are bad
regardless of the results, retooling is the right thing to do
Firing Blake is even better

 

[lumbergh]

So what are we cheering for here? I'm so confused. I want this group to win because I understand Doughty & Kopitar aren't getting any younger and winning is a culture you want to set for the young guys (like Kempe, Ladue, Wagner, Amadio, Walker etc). But at the same time, I don't want them to keep winning and miss the playoffs, get 10th overall in the draft and miss out on a top pick. Nor do I want them to make the playoffs and get swept in the first round, like last year.

What do we do LOL? It's a mind ****.

I'm cheering for the Kings to win, every game.
I'm cheering for an entertaining hockey game full of excitement, tension, skill, and physicality, every game.
I'm cheering for an Alec Martinez goal celebration, every game.
I'm cheering for an Austin Wagner breakaway, every game.
I'm cheering for a Dustin Brown monster hit, every game.
I'm cheering for a Jonathan Quick crazy save, every game.
I'm cheering for the "fun bus" to keep rolling, every game.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

the West is weak
Kings are bad
regardless of the results, retooling is the right thing to do
Firing Blake is even better

Why would firing Blake be better when he is doing what you asked for in retooling the roster and has admitted as such that he’s not satisfied with how they’ve performed?

What should he be doing?

 

[Seventyx7]

What youth exactly? Ladue and Walker are borderline NHLers , and not young. Kempe and Iafallo were in the playoffs last year, doubt getting stomped by CGY or SJ makes them better players. I like Wagner but he’s not a core guy.

If Kupari/Vilardi/JAD/Clague/Petersen were the ones contributing it may be worth it. Picking 10th or 15th instead of top 3 is a nightmare if the plan is to retool around Kopitar and Doughty.

 

[Matt13]

What should he be doing?

Free Beer and Nachos for all who have to endure this season.

 

[Fat Elvis]

LA is really in a pickle. Losing sucks. Losing like the ducks really sucks. We know since they've been losing all season, until now. Now they look good (without Carter, coincidence?). LA desperately needs better players thru out the organization and a top 2 pick would expedite the process. But it's nice to see the younger players stepping up the last couple games. Yup, quite the pickle. Losing sucks, winning during a losing season isn't helpful.

 

[Master Yoda]

What youth exactly? Ladue and Walker are borderline NHLers , and not young. Kempe and Iafallo were in the playoffs last year, doubt getting stomped by CGY or SJ makes them better players. I like Wagner but he’s not a core guy.

If Kupari/Vilardi/JAD/Clague/Petersen were the ones contributing it may be worth it. Picking 10th or 15th instead of top 3 is a nightmare if the plan is to retool around Kopitar and Doughty.

But then how do you prevent the team from winning? Just forfeit all the games? Those prospects you mentioned other than Petersen either aren't ready or not eligible. And you can't trade everybody for picks, and you're not giving away the veterans for bags of pucks just for the sake of moving them.

So then if the "non-core" guys like Wagner/Luff/Ladue/Walker/Amadio are stepping in and winning games, then what other options do they have? Or should Blake just tell them to not try?

If, as a result, Wagner/Luff/Ladue/Walker/Amadio etc end up establishing themselves as legit bottom 6 or bottom pairing NHL'ers, I think it's a positive going forward.

 

[LAKings88]

Chicago, St. Louis, and LA are all making pushes after horrid seasons.

LA likely has the most difficult road out of the three.

I think it’s more a trim the fat now.

Carter should be shopped hard.

Dion should be bought out but won’t.

Amart should be moved for the right price. I think given how few decent Dmen are available, he should have good value. If not, keep him for another year and move him next deadline.

Quick should be moved. Capitalize on him before he depreciates any more. Deadline or offseason. Now is the time with two solid guys in the pipe.

Lewis should be shopped but he might be a deadline guy next year.

Brodzinski will likely be retained or kept at least past the deadline. Leipsic who knows. He’s probably earned a contract elsewhere but LA only has so many spots to give.

Thompson and Hagelin should be moved. They won’t get much in return but better than nothing. Forward market is just so flooded.

Kovy can call his shot.

Toffoli you move only if the value is appropriate. Toughest piece to judge really. Is he just a 15 goal scorer or can he be that 30 goal guy? Still young too.

 

[KingPuckChoo]

Why would firing Blake be better when he is doing what you asked for in retooling the roster and has admitted as such that he’s not satisfied with how they’ve performed?

What should he be doing?

Kovalchuk signing is adding an old player to a roster that he can see with his glasses that they are old
Pearson trade was way too early and went for very little
Same can be said for Muzzin, or, i think he doesn't know how to sell his players

Also, trade Martinez first, he's older and Muzzin is better (i know all your counter arguments about this and i understand them)

And i believe if it were up to Desjardins, Kovalchuk would be on the 4th line (or scratched), for a while now he's been playing 14mins + this tells me sometimes Blake steps in... if he does step in, how the f*** did they allow Phaneuf play 5000 games before he gets scratched? I don't believe for a second that Blake, at this point, doesn't influence some of Desjardins' decisions...

FURTHERMORE, i have embedded in me, the idea that former star players make for poor GMs (don't bring me Yzerman as a counter, he inherited a lot of that team, and also yeah ok he's a good GM... MOST AREN'T)

now... factor in the stunt he pulled on the Kings when he was a player to ditch us and sign with SJ - i know this guy is a ME first kind of man, so this guy has Kings blood flowing thru his DNA? i doubt it, i doubt his passion, and i believe he enjoys job security and comfort over making the right choices

it's more emotion and intuition than anything for me

so counter with your list of facts, it doesn't matter, i highly distrust this guy

fair?

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Kovalchuk signing is adding an old player to a roster that he can see with his glasses that they are old
Pearson trade was way too early and went for very little
Same can be said for Muzzin, or, i think he doesn't know how to sell his players

Also, trade Martinez first, he's older and Muzzin is better (i know all your counter arguments about this and i understand them)

And i believe if it were up to Desjardins, Kovalchuk would be on the 4th line (or scratched), for a while now he's been playing 14mins + this tells me sometimes Blake steps in... if he does step in, how the **** did they allow Phaneuf play 5000 games before he gets scratched? I don't believe for a second that Blake, at this point, doesn't influence some of Desjardins' decisions...

FURTHERMORE, i have embedded in me, the idea that former star players make for poor GMs (don't bring me Yzerman as a counter, he inherited a lot of that team, and also yeah ok he's a good GM... MOST AREN'T)

now... factor in the stunt he pulled on the Kings when he was a player to ditch us and sign with SJ - i know this guy is a ME first kind of man, so this guy has Kings blood flowing thru his DNA? i doubt it, i doubt his passion, and i believe he enjoys job security and comfort over making the right choices

it's more emotion and intuition than anything for me

so counter with your list of facts, it doesn't matter, i highly distrust this guy

fair?

Most GM's ARE former players,

10 GMs of 31 do not have a Pro Hockey Career....of those 10,

Stan Bowman, Ray Shero, Chuck Fletcher, grew up on the game...literally...

I don't get this hate for former players being in management, where the hell does it come from??

It's like saying, we don't want this former doctor with 25 years experience, being in charge of putting together a medical team, or we don't want this former laywer with 15 years experience, running a law firm,

In what other specialized industry are you going to have people with no background, be in charge?

You going to let a bank president, be the president, with no banking qualifications??

 

[Seventyx7]

But then how do you prevent the team from winning? Just forfeit all the games? Those prospects you mentioned other than Petersen either aren't ready or not eligible. And you can't trade everybody for picks, and you're not giving away the veterans for bags of pucks just for the sake of moving them.

So then if the "non-core" guys like Wagner/Luff/Ladue/Walker/Amadio are stepping in and winning games, then what other options do they have? Or should Blake just tell them to not try?

If, as a result, Wagner/Luff/Ladue/Walker/Amadio etc end up establishing themselves as legit bottom 6 or bottom pairing NHL'ers, I think it's a positive going forward.

You can't prevent the team from winning. The players/coaches should never stop trying to win, of course. It REALLY sucks as a fan, especially one who still watches the games, to have to prefer losing.

I have doubts about the viability of Luff/Ladue/Walker as NHL contributors on a good team, and Amadio (who I still have hope will be more than Shore/Dowd) has been disappointing. I guess I just don't see the "youth" growing or contributing all that much. We are still the oldest team in the league. Hughes or Kakko would be far more helpful to the Kings success at some point than Matt Luff or Sean Walker experiencing some NHL wins.

 

[Fishhead]

The gap between a bubble team and a bad one is getting thinner with the cap. All I'm cheering for is a long streak, either way. 10 game win streak or 10 game losing streak. Of course they'll go 5-4-1 or something like that.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Yzerman didn't inherit most of that Tampa Bay team, he took over the team in 2010 when they were crap. He had a solid two to build off of in Stamkos and Hedman and that was it.

The Capitals have a former player as GM, seems to be working out for them. Bruins have a former player, the Jets have a former player. The list goes on and on. So if someone bases an opinion on unfounded assumptions, well, what point is there to bring in facts to the discussion?

 

[KingPuckChoo]

Most GM's ARE former players,

10 GMs of 31 do not have a Pro Hockey Career....of those 10,

Stan Bowman, Ray Shero, Chuck Fletcher, grew up on the game...literally...

I don't get this hate for former players being in management, where the hell does it come from??

It's like saying, we don't want this former doctor with 25 years experience, being in charge of putting together a medical team, or we don't want this former laywer with 15 years experience, running a law firm,

In what other specialized industry are you going to have people with no background, be in charge?

You going to let a bank president, be the president, with no banking qualifications??

i purposely wrote STAR PLAYERS

STAR
STAR
STAR

but that's as far as i go with you GoldenBoy

 

[KingPuckChoo]

Yzerman didn't inherit most of that Tampa Bay team, he took over the team in 2010 when they were crap. He had a solid two to build off of in Stamkos and Hedman and that was it.

The Capitals have a former player as GM, seems to be working out for them. Bruins have a former player, the Jets have a former player. The list goes on and on. So if someone bases an opinion on unfounded assumptions, well, what point is there to bring in facts to the discussion?

i guess you missed it too, it's all good - i wasn't talking about Marc Bergevin type players

i just emotionally don't like Blake

let's leave it at that

edit: let's also just cherry pick and focus on the easy one where i wrote star players make for bad gms and avoiiiid that entire paragraph about his loyalty his poor signings and trades that could have been bigger, let's all avoid that and focus on selective facts

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

So what are we cheering for here? I'm so confused. I want this group to win because I understand Doughty & Kopitar aren't getting any younger and winning is a culture you want to set for the young guys (like Kempe, Ladue, Wagner, Amadio, Walker etc). But at the same time, I don't want them to keep winning and miss the playoffs, get 10th overall in the draft and miss out on a top pick. Nor do I want them to make the playoffs and get swept in the first round, like last year.

What do we do LOL? It's a mind ****.

Wouldn't be a Kings fan if it were easy!

You cheer for wins like yesterday because Kempe got 4th icetime amongst forwards, our defense was mobile and enabling the offense, the forward with the LEAST icetime was Leipsic with 12 minutes. We rolled 4 effective, spirited lines. Our oldest goal scorer last night was 22.

We're not winning because of veteran carries. If we skate into the black hole because the youth are hungry and winning most matchups, that's more acceptable to me than sinking into a black hole because the vets are toast.

What youth exactly? Ladue and Walker are borderline NHLers , and not young. Kempe and Iafallo were in the playoffs last year, doubt getting stomped by CGY or SJ makes them better players. I like Wagner but he’s not a core guy.

If Kupari/Vilardi/JAD/Clague/Petersen were the ones contributing it may be worth it. Picking 10th or 15th instead of top 3 is a nightmare if the plan is to retool around Kopitar and Doughty.

LaDue has played 53 NHL games. He may not get 'better', but he'll get more experienced. Walker is 24 and appears to be a bit of a late bloomer and I've been blasting his defensive awareness but he looked fantastic last night. They might not be 'solutions,' but with their foot speed and tenacity, they were a clear upgrade on Phaneuf anchoring one of them down.

The youth led the way last night and we haven't gotten to our best prospects yet. That's encouraging. Discouraging that it means we lose hughes/kakko, but like I said, there's NO WAY we're outtanking the Ducks at their losing 18-of-20 clip. WE're just not that bad.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Losing out on Kakko or Hughes would be a monstrous failure for this franchise.

We need a bonafide blue chip prospect to build around for the future. Vilardi could have been that piece, but at this point it’s not clear if he’ll ever play an NHL game, much less develop into an impact center.

We have some nice complimentary pieces with some potential in Kupari, Thomas, etc., but they’re a far cry from Kakko/Hughes.

We need a top two pick this year. Finishing in the black hole does absolutely nothing for this team in the short or long term.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

i guess you missed it too, it's all good

i just emotionally don't like Blake

let's leave it at that

Although he is doing what most want in retooling the team and shedding contracts from the roster. He has shed close to $8M in cap space and in the off-season they'll have more than $10M in cap space (possibly more if he deals away more players).

They're finally starting to move remnants of the past who don't figure into the long term plans of the team. Not sure what else you want him to do or what better ideas you are suggesting that make any more sense. But so be it. Armchair GMs will armchair GM.