TSN: Giordano's Contract Watch - initial ask is $9M/year

[slappipappi]

He's our captain and best player, and deserves to be paid as such, but he's played here for 10 years and might be willing to sacrifice a little term for a bit more money now. If we give him a 3-5 year deal, I have absolutely no problem with giving him 8 million. It's when we get above that when I get a little more weary.

The Flames have a really bright future - probably one of the best, if not the best in the league. I can't think of another team other than Tampa Bay that has a better assembly of young talent and depth. Staying here, Gio has the ability to play with guys like T.J. Brodie, Dougie Hamilton, Kris Russell, Kenney Morrison, Tyler Wotherspoon, and Brett Kulak as they get better and better, and all of those guys have elite potential. Where else does he have that chance?
Gio's going to be a Flame for a while. Believe me.

Probably not if you expect him so sign a 3-year deal.

Just becuase that's what's best for the Flames, doesn't mean he'll sign it.

Gio wants term, he's made that very clear. 3 years is not term. Sure he'd like to stay with the Flames, of that I have little doubt. Just like Saad wanted to stay with Chicago and was stunned when he was traded. But Saad also wanted to be paid, and it appears that Gio does to.

And I question whether guys like Russell, Morrison, Wotherspoon and Lulak have "elite" potential. The ship on Russell being "elite" has already sailed, he is what he is. A decent enough d-man for sure, but he'll never be "elite". Wotherspoon is likely a back end d-man at best.

I thonk Calagry needs to go 6 years at least to keep Gio, perhaps 5. But I can't imagine 3 happening.

But like all things, time will tell. I do think that Gio's desire to stay in Calagry is strong, and he just might capitulate if Trev remains firm.

 

[scoringmachine]

Paying people 7 million or higher for 4 to 7 years is too much. For Gio I would not want more than 6 million as he is not a P.K Subban type dman who is a game changer. Calgary survived without Gio and made the playoffs. Montreal had some terrible when Subban was out of the lineup. So he deserved the money. Gio had one Great season and believes he deserves P.K Subban money. I would like to see this coming season before I even think about 9 million

 

[Wayne Primeau]

Paying people 7 million or higher for 4 to 7 years is too much. For Gio I would not want more than 6 million as he is not a P.K Subban type dman who is a game changer. Calgary survived without Gio and made the playoffs. Montreal had some terrible when Subban was out of the lineup. So he deserved the money. Gio had one Great season and believes he deserves P.K Subban money. I would like to see this coming season before I even think about 9 million

Get outta here.

 

[CraigsList]

Paying people 7 million or higher for 4 to 7 years is too much. For Gio I would not want more than 6 million as he is not a P.K Subban type dman who is a game changer. Calgary survived without Gio and made the playoffs. Montreal had some terrible when Subban was out of the lineup. So he deserved the money. Gio had one Great season and believes he deserves P.K Subban money. I would like to see this coming season before I even think about 9 million

Gio's not a game changer? Wrong.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Gio's not a game changer? Wrong.

He's not though.

He's an incredibly stabilizing force on the blue line. Is an excellent captain by all accounts. But I don't recall Giordano single handedly changing the outcome of a game once in the last couple of seasons.

 

[Anglesmith]

He's not though.

He's an incredibly stabilizing force on the blue line. Is an excellent captain by all accounts. But I don't recall Giordano single handedly changing the outcome of a game once in the last couple of seasons.

I 100% disagree. What about his overtime game-winner against LA? How about that ridiculous goal he scored in Phoenix a few years back? He has that ability in him, he just picks his spots. And the points over the last two seasons show that he helps his team score goals just as much as P.K. Subban.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Regarding Gio being a game changer, I will say he was often a pretty big catalyst in many of our comeback wins last season. I know there was at least 2-3 games he scored a tying goal or GWG. And he does control the point extremely well and distributes the puck among the best in the game.

 

[slappipappi]

Regarding Gio being a game changer, I will say he was often a pretty big catalyst in many of our comeback wins last season. I know there was at least 2-3 games he scored a tying goal or GWG. And he does control the point extremely well and distributes the puck among the best in the game.

Gio reminds me of keith in that, after most games, while everyone is talking about who scored the game winning goals etc., it dawns on you that without Keith/Gio, the game likely would have been lost.

Fans appreciate Keith because they've seen him do it in the playoffs. The job of the shut down d-man is not to make mistakes. Even when they accomplish that job, they often go un-noticed. But it doesn't mean they aren't controlling the game.

I'm a big fan of Gio, how can you not be?

But I also worry about signing him for more than 4-5 years. As I would be for any player turning 33 when his new contract kicks in. You hope the 8 year contracts you've been forced to give your premium players end at ages 33-34. Not begin.

 

[Mitts]

He's not though.

He's an incredibly stabilizing force on the blue line. Is an excellent captain by all accounts. But I don't recall Giordano single handedly changing the outcome of a game once in the last couple of seasons.

This goal immediately comes to mind for me.

 

[Straight Fire]

I think the consensus that he's a top 5 D man in the league is not an out-to-lunch sentiment by an unknowledgable reporter-base. Last year was his best but his stock rose steadily for 3 or 4 years prior. It wasn't an overnight thing.

I can argue all day as a minority that Chris Pronger was overrated. I hated his skating and his dirty, chippy style. But I'm not going to get 10% of the hockey world to agree with me. So I have to concede that I am wrong in such a case and that he is a HFer even though I didn't see it really at the time.

Not necessarily a perfect analogy, but we have for sure a top 10 d-man for the last 4 or so years and arguably a top 5 d-man now. One has to think he'll remain at this level for another 2 to 3 years and be a top 20 d-man for another 1 or 2 after that. Then it's probably top 60 to 120 for the last year or so of his contract. Can we live with that? I sure hope so.

 

[1989]

I think the consensus that he's a top 5 D man in the league is not an out-to-lunch sentiment by an unknowledgable reporter-base. Last year was his best but his stock rose steadily for 3 or 4 years prior. It wasn't an overnight thing.

I can argue all day as a minority that Chris Pronger was overrated. I hated his skating and his dirty, chippy style. But I'm not going to get 10% of the hockey world to agree with me. So I have to concede that I am wrong in such a case and that he was a HFer even though I didn't see it really at the time.

Not necessarily a perfect analogy, but we have for sure a top 10 d-man for the last 4 or so years and arguably a top 5 d-man now. One has to think he'll remain at this level for another 2 to 3 years and be a top 20 d-man for another 1 or 2 after that. Then it's probably top 60 to 120 for the last year or so of his contract. Can we live with that? I sure hope so.

I think your post makes a good point, especially the last paragraph.
The real question here is whether Treliving and co. are okay with how Chiarelli managed Chara's contract - it's pretty obviously the closest comparable in terms of development, late prominence, etc. Both defencemen are even captains of their respective teams and have been at times, the best player on their team.

I feel like a contract beyond 7.5m and 6 years is the cut-off for this Flames management, both in managing the cap and the player himself. It's a really difficult call to make, but even Bruins fans as an example are starting to sour on Chara's contract and decline of play due to age.

 

[Straight Fire]

I think your post makes a good point, especially the last paragraph.
The real question here is whether Treliving and co. are okay with how Chiarelli managed Chara's contract - it's pretty obviously the closest comparable in terms of development, late prominence, etc. Both defencemen are even captains of their respective teams and have been at times, the best player on their team.

I feel like a contract beyond 7.5m and 6 years is the cut-off for this Flames management, both in managing the cap and the player himself. It's a really difficult call to make, but even Bruins fans as an example are starting to sour on Chara's contract and decline of play due to age.

I don't know how Chara'a contract is structured, but like you say if something averaged at about 7.5 over 6 should be realistic. Or therebouts. I havent seen too many Bruins complain about Zdeno though I'm sure there are some. He's been the backbone of the club for an eternity and they did win a cup (along with another SCF). So I'd call those fans a little unthankful in the big picture.

Also, does anyone have any idea when the next salary cap increase will happen?

 

[Lunatik]

I don't know how Chara'a contract is structured, but like you say if something averaged at about 7.5 over 6 should be realistic. Or therebouts. I havent seen too many Bruins complain about Zdeno though I'm sure there are some. He's been the backbone of the club for an eternity and they did win a cup (along with another SCF). So I'd call those fans a little unthankful in the big picture.

Also, does anyone have any idea when the next salary cap increase will happen?

Chara, 7 years 45.5 million, but his contract does something weird when he hits 40, the cap hit drops to $4,000,000

 

[1989]

Chara, 7 years 45.5 million, but his contract does something weird when he hits 40, the cap hit drops to $4,000,000

It's because of the new CBA - pretty simple rule where a player's caphit is directly equal to his salary earning once said player hits 40 years of age and over. In other words, Chara is being paid 4m in salary as he hits 40 in that last year of his contract, and his caphit is 4m as well.

I don't know how that affects the caphit of the contract as a whole but that's because I'm simply too lazy to do the math.

It's an interesting quirk but not one that the Flames can use to their advantage as any realistic contract being discussed about Giordano should take him to 38 or 39, maximum.

 

[Lunatik]

It's because of the new CBA - pretty simple rule where a player's caphit is directly equal to his salary earning once said player hits 40 years of age and over. In other words, Chara is being paid 4m in salary as he hits 40 in that last year of his contract, and his caphit is 4m as well.

I don't know how that affects the caphit of the contract as a whole but that's because I'm simply too lazy to do the math.

It's an interesting quirk but not one that the Flames can use to their advantage as any realistic contract being discussed about Giordano should take him to 38 or 39, maximum.

I would guess the cap hit until age 40 is the total average until that point in time

 

[Straight Fire]

It's because of the new CBA - pretty simple rule where a player's caphit is directly equal to his salary earning once said player hits 40 years of age and over. In other words, Chara is being paid 4m in salary as he hits 40 in that last year of his contract, and his caphit is 4m as well.

I don't know how that affects the caphit of the contract as a whole but that's because I'm simply too lazy to do the math.

It's an interesting quirk but not one that the Flames can use to their advantage as any realistic contract being discussed about Giordano should take him to 38 or 39, maximum.

Interesting stuff. But like you say, I guess it won't affect the Flames. I didn't know that about Zdeno's contract.

 

[tmurfin]

Not having Gio at the end and in the playoffs has turned some folks

 

[CraigsList]

Not having Gio at the end and in the playoffs has turned some folks

This. Even if Giordano regresses a little within the next few years, he'd still be an elite middle pairing defenseman too, assuming Brodie and Hamilton take the top pairing reins by the time I come back.

Giordano is still a key piece to this team, and that continues to get overlooked because of his age.

 

[Straight Fire]

This. Even if Giordano regresses a little within the next few years, he'd still be an elite middle pairing defenseman too, assuming Brodie and Hamilton take the top pairing reins by the time I come back.

Giordano is still a key piece to this team, and that continues to get overlooked because of his age.

I think he means Flames did really well without him. Above expectations. So, consequently, where there wasn't even the inkling before that he shouldn't be paid as a top-dollar defenseman, or might be tradable, now those possibilities in many fan's minds exist because of how well the a Flames did without him. It's unanimous that everyone wants him to stay but at what price and are there possibilities of him bringing us major payback elsewhere?

 

[Rangediddy]

I think he means Flames did really well without him. Above expectations. So, consequently, where there wasn't even the inkling before that he shouldn't be paid as a top-dollar defenseman, or might be tradable, now those possibilities in many fan's minds exist because of how well the a Flames did without him. It's unanimous that everyone wants him to stay but at what price and are there possibilities of him bringing us major payback elsewhere?

They did it without him ON the ice. He was still travelling with the team which is rare for injured players. The guy remained a leader and that has value.

We can't say they'd play the same way if his was removed from the team altogether.

 

[1989]

Feeling it'll be August before a deal is announced. Just a gut feeling that Treliving will fold more than Giordano's camp.

 

[Straight Fire]

They did it without him ON the ice. He was still travelling with the team which is rare for injured players. The guy remained a leader and that has value.

We can't say they'd play the same way if his was removed from the team altogether.

Meh, yeah, I know what you're saying . . . But Chris Draper may have had clout with the Detroit Red Wings in the dressing room and eventually the press box. But you don't pay top dollar for that.

 

[Rangediddy]

Meh, yeah, I know what you're saying . . . But Chris Draper may have had clout with the Detroit Red Wings in the dressing room and eventually the press box. But you don't pay top dollar for that.

I know what you're saying as well, but Kris Draper wasn't also a Norris Calibre defenseman leading a team made up of primarily kids with less than 3 years of NHL hockey under their belts, who also don't have a Lidstrom, Yzerman, Datsyuk or Zetterberg to lead without him.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Honestly, I'd rather give Gio 10 million over 3 years than 8 over 5.

 

[CraigsList]

Honestly, I'd rather give Gio 10 million over 3 years than 8 over 5.

He wants long term though. If Gio's party wants 9, then they are only getting 3 years max. 6-7m is all he is getting imo if he's looking for a 5-6 year deal.

I'm all for front loading the contract if Gio is worried about money. He just needs to realize that there are huge risks on signing him a 5+ year deal, given his age.