TSN: Giordano's Contract Watch - initial ask is $9M/year

[Calculon]

I say that we just let Gio go into free agency an let that extra money be used to sign Monahan, Gaudreau and Bennett.

This is quite literally the worst possible suggestion.

The contract him and his agent Ritch Winter is asking for is pretty unreasonable. Almost offensively unreasonable.

Subban is the only defenseman with that kind of AAV and he's 26.

Letang? Weber? Suter? Doughty? Some of the highest compensated guys in the league, considered the best, all around 7-7.8. Other guys considered the best in the league, Keith and Karlsson, even lower AAV. All of them younger, all of them signed these huge contracts in their mid 20s. Gio will be 33 at the time of this extension. The only guy from this list who gets hurt like Gio is Letang.

IMO his negotiating party needs to get serious, but that's how Ritch Winter works.

Outside of Letang, not one of those contracts are even remotely fair comparables. Honestly, at this point, it's just blatantly disingenuous when people use cap circumvention or RFA contracts signed years ago as a comparable for what Giordano should sign for in today's market.

Except thats how negotiations work. If they didnt start out high then hes going to lose out.

This. Amazing how some just get completely hysterical when they see one camps' opening numbers.

 

[Lunatik]

Wow, he's been allowed to re-sign for less than 48 hours and people have gone bat **** crazy.

 

[slappipappi]

Except thats how negotiations work. If they didnt start out high then hes going to lose out.

That's not how many of them work.

Many have little to and fro, as both sides have a pretty good idea of someone's market value.

They can be different.

When Joey Votto signed with the Reds, they offered him (out of the blue two years before his existing contract ended) a 10 year $25M contract.

He said he would think about it, and said thanks. Next day he accepted it. He knew that was the offer. It was that or nothing.

If Gio had gone in and said, I need $7M at 5 years, I think the Flames may well have simply accepted it.

 

[YMCMBYOLO]

Everyone cool your damn ****ng jets and calm the **** down

 

[Pirate King Luffy]

Everyone cool your damn ****ng jets and calm the **** down

Seems like you're the one exploding lol

i know you aren't but it's hilarious

 

[saillias]

Outside of Letang, not one of those contracts are even remotely fair comparables. Honestly, at this point, it's just blatantly disingenuous when people use cap circumvention or RFA contracts signed years ago as a comparable for what Giordano should sign for in today's market.

I used a wide range of several of the top defenseman in the league. All of them as comparables are blatantly disingenuous? So in that case there are no comparables?

 

[slappipappi]

I used a wide range of several of the top defenseman in the league. All of them as comparables are blatantly disingenuous? So in that case there are no comparables?

Because the cap keeps going up, you need to look at similarly skilled d-men at his age who have signed recently.

New contracts are often setting new standards.

Don't be surprised if Gio's contract sets a new standard for his skill set.

 

[saillias]

That's not how many of them work.

Many have little to and fro, as both sides have a pretty good idea of someone's market value.

They can be different.

When Joey Votto signed with the Reds, they offered him (out of the blue two years before his existing contract ended) a 10 year $25M contract.

He said he would think about it, and said thanks. Next day he accepted it. He knew that was the offer. It was that or nothing.

If Gio had gone in and said, I need $7M at 5 years, I think the Flames may well have simply accepted it.

Agreed, there is coming in high... and then there is coming in at max term, Subban money for a guy who will be turning 33 to start this contract and who missed 20 games last 2 seasons in a row. And to add to that, negotiating the extension now is doing him a favor. The entire 2015-2016 season will not factor in to his new deal. He could start declining and have a massive raise incoming anyway. Pretty sweetheart situation for him.

 

[Calculon]

I used a wide range of several of the top defenseman in the league. All of them as comparables are blatantly disingenuous? So in that case there are no comparables?

Karlsson and Doughty were RFA's signed right after their entry level contracts. Keith, Weber and Suter signed cap circumvention contracts that are no longer possible in the new CBA. So yeah, none of them are remotely fair comparables.

Giordano is an UFA that can sign for a max of 8 years with Calgary or 7 with another team if he makes it to free agency next summer. Realistic comparables are Pronger and Chara, given age and the contracts they signed. Adjust for inflation and an increased cap and Giordano's demands are a fair starting point.

 

[St Wardo]

Agreed, there is coming in high... and then there is coming in at max term, Subban money for a guy who will be turning 33 to start this contract and who missed 20 games last 2 seasons in a row. And to add to that, negotiating the extension now is doing him a favor. The entire 2015-2016 season will not factor in to his new deal. He could start declining and have a massive raise incoming anyway. Pretty sweetheart situation for him.

I think what you're forgetting though is that initial ask =/= demands. Management will undoubtedly use the points you've mentioned to talk him down from that ask. But for all we know right now, Gio isn't making a big stink and holding out for that much money, so what good does assuming he is do for us?

He was one of the best defensemen in the league the past few years, so it isn't very outrageous that he asks to be paid like it.

 

[Zirakzigil]

That's not how many of them work.

Many have little to and fro, as both sides have a pretty good idea of someone's market value.

They can be different.

When Joey Votto signed with the Reds, they offered him (out of the blue two years before his existing contract ended) a 10 year $25M contract.

He said he would think about it, and said thanks. Next day he accepted it. He knew that was the offer. It was that or nothing.

If Gio had gone in and said, I need $7M at 5 years, I think the Flames may well have simply accepted it.

That's how a lot of sport contracts work actually. There are two sides to this, that Gio is a Norris calibre defenseman or he's an injury prone #1. That's a big different in salary. Gio obviously feels that he's a Norris defenseman and wants to be paid as such. If his first offer to the Flames was for 7mil and the Flames reply with 6mil Gio has lost all leverage to get more money.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

I say that we just let Gio go into free agency an let that extra money be used to sign Monahan, Gaudreau and Bennett.

I want to do things to you that would get me suspended from the site for even saying them here because of this post. Things that would make even 100TG's hate of Russians pale in comparison.

I would let every single other player on this team go outside of those you mention plus Hamilton and Brodie before I let Gio go.

 

[Lunatik]

I want to do things to you that would get me suspended from the site for even saying them here because of this post. Things that would make even 100TG's hate of Russians pale in comparison.

I would let every single other player on this team go outside of those you mention plus Hamilton and Brodie before I let Gio go.

I don't hate Russians, I just don't trust them to stick around.

 

[Mobiandi]

I say that we just let Gio go into free agency an let that extra money be used to sign Monahan, Gaudreau and Bennett.

Que?

 

[Flames Fanatic]

I don't hate Russians, I just don't trust them to stick around.

Your hate of the Jets? Better?

 

[Lunatik]

Your hate of the Jets? Better?

I hate the Penguins more than anything.

 

[Wayne Primeau]

OH MY GOD everyone CALM DOWN DON'T GET HYSTERICAL

WE DON'T NEED TO BE HYSTERICAL

IT'LL ALL BE OK

 

[slappipappi]

That's how a lot of sport contracts work actually. There are two sides to this, that Gio is a Norris calibre defenseman or he's an injury prone #1. That's a big different in salary. Gio obviously feels that he's a Norris defenseman and wants to be paid as such. If his first offer to the Flames was for 7mil and the Flames reply with 6mil Gio has lost all leverage to get more money.

If he said to them this is what I need, or I'm not signing, he's lost no leverage.

It's simply a matter of presenting it that way.

When you negotiate from starting very high, and going down from there, the other side always assumes you've never hit the bottom.

Depending on the situation, there are many efeective ways to negotiate. it's simply a matter of what you want to end up with. If it's the most money possible, you start very high. If it's a set number that you think is likley achievable, you start pretty close to or at that number.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I see things a little different after yesterday, the closet comparables were Green and Sekera:

Green - 3 years @ 6 per
Sekera - 6 years @ 5.5 per

Now at this point, both Green and Sekera are classified as top pairing guys, but probably #3's on a really good team. Gio is a legit #1, but is also a few years older than those guys.

The reality is that yesterday was a clear indication that GM's are not going to hand out stupid contracts in today's NHL. If Gio wants money, it's going to be over a 3, maybe 4 year deal. If he wants term (ie. 6-8 years), he's going to get a much lower cap. Here's my prediction:

3 years @ 7.75
6 years @ 6.25

Factoring in age, market conditions and our cap situation post Hamilton and Frolik, that's what I see.

 

[Tofveve]

I see things a little different after yesterday, the closet comparables were Green and Sekera:

Green - 3 years @ 6 per
Sekera - 6 years @ 5.5 per

Now at this point, both Green and Sekera are classified as top pairing guys, but probably #3's on a really good team. Gio is a legit #1, but is also a few years older than those guys.

The reality is that yesterday was a clear indication that GM's are not going to hand out stupid contracts in today's NHL. If Gio wants money, it's going to be over a 3, maybe 4 year deal. If he wants term (ie. 6-8 years), he's going to get a much lower cap. Here's my prediction:

3 years @ 7.75
6 years @ 6.25

Factoring in age, market conditions and our cap situation post Hamilton and Frolik, that's what I see.

I kind of agree with this. I think most of us would think the latter contract would be best for everyone involved. I can't see why Gio would get excessively greedy at this point of his career. Would suck to see the last 6 or so years of his career seem lacklustre for his contract.

 

[Lunatik]

Not sure if anyone posted this, but if not:



IMO, if he doesn't back down alot I think we need to move him.

 

[Mitts]

Everyone cool your damn ****ng jets and calm the **** down

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Not sure if anyone posted this, but if not:



IMO, if he doesn't back down alot I think we need to move him.

Obviously, if he's starting there then that number is going to come down. The Flames starting point might be 3 years, 6 million lol.

But I'm in agreement 100%, Gio is not above the team. We cannot afford to sign him to a deal that will negatively affect our ability to win a Cup. Signing him to year 8 year deal, at 8-9 million does that. If he does not come down significantly, then I would deal him without question. He is no longer the only good player on our roster.

Again, if he's not willing to agree to something like I posted above, I'd quietly see what kind of offers are out there.

 

[tmurfin]

It's his last chance to bank some cash, and he's earned it. I don't blame the guy, he will get at least 1-2 years of 9mil+, still think his AAV end us up between 7-7.75

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Here's my thing, I think you can argue that he's worth 8-9 million right now. But that can change very quickly. Treliving is a very smart guy, I don't think you want to get in a situation where you're paying a 36-38 year old over 8 million a season. That could be disastrous if he regresses.

Btw, my jets are burning and burning hot.