German Prospects for the NHL Draft

Maverick41

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I was sure I had posted this before, but looking back through this thread it appears I did not, unless I missed it checking my own post history (damn I'm tired).

Lennart Neiße, one of the more interesting goalie prospects coming up, has been playing for the Kitchener Jr. Rangers U18 this season. He seems to be the backup there and has posted 3 shutouts in 8 games on what appears to be a pretty good team.
Neiße is another very big kid already (6'5'' / 195cm), so he will definitely have the size, and I hope he will get some good coaching in Kitchener.

Neiße will be one of the youngest if not the youngest player eligible for the 2024 draft. Hopefully he can become a legit prospect or at least another good option for a DEL team.
The few games I have seen him, looked pretty good, although I still struggle with the assessment of goalies, so don't put too much stock into that.

When I posted my recent rankings I left him off for some reason. I must have completely forgotten about him at the time.
I will definitely put him back in with the next rankings, that I plan to do in March.
 

Maverick41

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When I watched him in a U20 academy game, he looked awful all around. No control over his limbs, no physicality, no hockey sense, no puck skills. Just one game, though, and his stats look decent at that level, so I thought I’d ask you before being too harsh.

I have no problem believing that, but since we both have seen him only once, and he seems to have some success at the level he is playing, I will hope that he proves us both wrong.

But for comparison, when I watched Sadio Kühner (14 years old) this year who is also rather tall (6'0'' / 184 cm) for his age, albeit still a far cry from Kaiser, he looked so much better. Just more comfortable and in control out there.

To summarize, I still hold out some hope for Kaiser, but I don't think he will be a NHL level prospect, because his development curve seems to be too slow for that, as is often the case with bigger players. It's just with players like him it seems that if he can figure it out, he could be a force out there, which is a big reason why I still have him pretty high (I even moved him up a few spots).
However, I was tempted to rank him much lower (closer to 30), but I wanted to wait until I get at least a couple more viewings of him. Hopefully I can get them between now and my next rankings.
I'll let you know when I have watched him and share my impressions. I just hope I can catch one of the upcoming live streams and that he plays. Too bad Red Bull does not make any streams on demand available, because I usually miss when they are live.
 
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JotAlan

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How good are brothers Griva and David Lewandowski? I saw them on EYOF and they already look better than the 06. Are they close to Reichel/Peterka level at the same age or something like Hauf/Kechter level?
 

Maverick41

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How good are brothers Griva and David Lewandowski? I saw them on EYOF and they already look better than the 06. Are they close to Reichel/Peterka level at the same age or something like Hauf/Kechter level?

Hard to say for sure. At this age I actually had Reichel quite a bit ahead of Peterka and closer to Stützle than to JJ.

So if I compare the Grivas and Lewandowski to former prospects at the same age, I would say I have them near where I had Peterka back then.

If I try to project them to their draft year and compare them to where Reichel/Peterka or Kechter/Hauf were in their draft years I would say, they are in between them but closer to Reichel and Peterka than to Kechter and Hauf.
The level of Julian Lutz might not be a terrible comparison. It can of course still go either way, but like Lutz, I see them a step behind of what Reichel and Peterka were going into their draft.

Really hope some of these kids pan out.
Händel and Bleicher are looking like they could help with the lack of defensive prospects depths.
Any one of Willhöft, Späth, Kessler or maybe even Schneider could also turn into prospects worth drafting.
I am always hesitant about goalies, but there are some that have looked good to me in limited viewings.

I always keep watchlists of players for every draft and they include everyone listed in my rankings plus a few more, that I have either not seen yet (and only like their stats) or that I am not fully convinced I should include them in the rankings.

In the past couple of years that list so far in advance of a draft has usually included somewhere between 30 and 40 prospects. For the 2025 draft I have a list of 59, and I might actually consider adding some more. When the draft is 2-3 years away is normally when this watchlist is at its largest, because for drafts further away I have too little information and then as the draft gets closer I can eliminate more and more players from the list. I am wondering how big the list for this draft will remain as we get closer.
 
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Chapin Landvogt

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Really hope some of these kids pan out.
Händel and Bleicher are looking like they could help with the lack of defensive prospects depths.
Any one of Willhöft, Späth, Kessler or maybe even Schneider could also turn into prospects worth drafting.
I am always hesitant about goalies, but there are some that have looked good to me in limited viewings.

Many good thoughts in this post, but Willhöft is the one to watch as his draft year approaches.

He's the one here who has the "special" tool or two. It's up to him, but I see some of the things that Stützle had and some that Marco Kasper had.

He's my tip moving forward to become a bit special.

Dunno how the size will effect things? Lots of physical growth can and should take place by Draft 24.
 

GermanSpitfire

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Many good thoughts in this post, but Willhöft is the one to watch as his draft year approaches.

He's the one here who has the "special" tool or two. It's up to him, but I see some of the things that Stützle had and some that Marco Kasper had.

He's my tip moving forward to become a bit special.

Dunno how the size will effect things? Lots of physical growth can and should take place by Draft 24.
I see the exact same thing with Willhöft. My personal favourite of the ‘07’s.
 
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Maverick41

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Many good thoughts in this post, but Willhöft is the one to watch as his draft year approaches.

He's the one here who has the "special" tool or two. It's up to him, but I see some of the things that Stützle had and some that Marco Kasper had.

He's my tip moving forward to become a bit special.

Dunno how the size will effect things? Lots of physical growth can and should take place by Draft 24.

The good thing for Willhöft is, that for his size and weight he is fairly strong. So if he could get even to a slightly below average height (for a hockey player) he should be able to manage. He actually engages physically and does not shy away from contact, but he needs to grow at least a bit more.
Unlike a David Lewandowski, who would be fine even if he doesn't grow another inch.

I would categorize the top 6 for the draft (in alphabetical order here) like this:

Griva (2x):
They are my personal favourites at the moment. A nice blend of a reasonably high floor and a still fairly high ceiling.

Händel:
My darkhorse. A lot depends on his devlopment in Sweden, but he has a ton of potential while already being very good. He could become that elusive NHL level defensemen we need. Doubtful Gawanke ever gets there despite doing well in the AHL and Szuber might never get that close, although there is still hope.

Lewandowski:
The safe bet. I think Lewandowski has probably the highest floor out of this group and while I don't think he has the same game breaking potential like the Grivas or Willhöft, he should remain a solid prospect all the way to the draft.

Späth:
The enigma. I have seen him play extremely well multiple times over the past 18 months, but lately he has been more disappointing than convincing. I believe there is still something there and a lot of untapped potential, but I have soured a bit on him. And at the EYOF (at least the games I could watch) he could not quite keep up with the others.

Willhöft:
The lottery ticket. IF he pans out he has probably the highest potential of the group, but if we compare him to Stützle at that age, I have more question marks with Willhöft, and need to see more from him and I need to see it consistently. And for my money, he needs to get to at least 5'9'' or 5'10'' to have a chance.

I like that they have been keeping the Griva/Griva/Lewandowski line together and also have played Willhöft with Späth multiple times to develop chemistry. The trio with Lewandowski and the twins has been so much fun to watch as a group, and when Willhöft is on he is also such a delight to watch. He just has that style and skill that can get you out of your seat, whether it's on the rush and then skating circles around the offensive zone or on the backcheck, giving it his all to catch up to opposing players no mater how much of a head start they had.
 

GermanSpitfire

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Gustavs and Rihards Griva as well as David Lewandowski just got added to Elite Prospects “Notable Players” for the 2025 Draft in their draft centre.

We’re not the only ones that have acknowledged that lines dominance.
 

Chompskiii

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Nicholas Schindler with two assists in the first period for Ingolstadt so far tonight. He has looked really good in the DEL so far in my opinion.

Should probably get some more attention.
 
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Maverick41

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Just a heads up. My March update for my rankings could very well drag into April. I was already a little late and then my dad had a bad fall last Friday (broken femur, dislocated shoulder and damaged hip) and will likely spend several weeks if not months in the hospital. That whole situation takes precedence over my hobby as it affects both my job and my private life.

I'll still keep working on the rankings whenever I need a break from everything else and will update the lists whenever I finish one, but there is no saying when that will happen for now. Except the Free Agent and Overager lists, those are pretty much done already and should be updated shortly.
 

GermanSpitfire

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I recently heard about a kid that holds dual citizenship for Canada/Germany that is a legit talent out of Ontario, one of the best of his age group.

His name is Jakko Wycisk.

 
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Maverick41

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I recently heard about a kid that holds dual citizenship for Canada/Germany that is a legit talent out of Ontario, one of the best of his age group.

His name is Jakko Wycisk.


What's with the sons of former Kassel Huskies players lately?
First Noah Kosick (son of Mark Kosick - was even born in Kassel), now Jaakko Wycisk (son of Austin Wycisk).

The dads also both played for Bremerhaven and Crimmitschau (they almost played together in Crimmitschau).

And if I read their profiles right, both fathers are the head coach for the team their son is playing on.
 
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Maverick41

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I got lucky last night (not that way, those days are long gone), and got a lot more work done on my rankings than I could have hoped.
This should allow me to update the 2023 and 2024 rankings by the end of the week, and also speed up my work on the rest of the rankings and watch lists

I'm still not gonna finnish everything before April, but at least I should have everything finished within the first week of April.
April 8th has been the date I was aiming for, now I think I might finish the last bit 4 or 5 days earlier.
 

GermanSpitfire

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Dustin Willhöft got into a couple J20 games last week, notching 3 points in the 2 games he played. Pretty notable for a player his age even in the small sample size.

Rogle is one of the top development systems in the entire SHL, I haven’t liked how he hasn’t been playing consistently on a single division but for him to play games at that level at his age is notable, and the fact he produced anything is great. Rogle is known as one of the better programs for prospect development after all.

Everytime I watch him I get shades of Tim Stützle.

CFB37E6F-624B-4618-94B9-519175FA4F8E.jpeg

For context sake, as someone who follows the ’07 age group quite a bit, all these kids save for a few are top Swedes in their age group. impressive showing, I’ll have to see if I can find the games.
 

Maverick41

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I noticed that too, as I was working on my rankings this week, and checking all the stats.

I still worry if he can physically handle the pro game at the NHL level. He does play bigger than he is, and does not shy away from contact, but I wonder if that will take too much of a toll in the long run, unless he gets quite a bit stronger and also bigger.

Speaking of our prospects in Sweden, I am curious to see how Carlos Händel will do next season, when he moves from Frölunda to Malmö.
 
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pgfan66

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I noticed that too, as I was working on my rankings this week, and checking all the stats.

I still worry if he can physically handle the pro game at the NHL level. He does play bigger than he is, and does not shy away from contact, but I wonder if that will take too much of a toll in the long run, unless he gets quite a bit stronger and also bigger.

Speaking of our prospects in Sweden, I am curious to see how Carlos Händel will do next season, when he moves from Frölunda to Malmö.
It’s definitely way too early to tell if he’ll be able to physically handle the NHL. The kid just turned 16.

Speaking of which, he’s basically an 06. Something to keep in mind.
 
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Maverick41

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Done with the 2023 and 2024 rankings.

The updates for the 2025 ranking and the 2026 watchlist will probably come next week. I expect 3-4 from now for the former and another 3-4 days later for the latter.
I will turn the 2026 watchlist into a sort of a ranking/watchlist hybrid. I'll provide a little more context when I do the update.
 

pgfan66

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Done with the 2023 and 2024 rankings.

The updates for the 2025 ranking and the 2026 watchlist will probably come next week. I expect 3-4 from now for the former and another 3-4 days later for the latter.
I will turn the 2026 watchlist into a sort of a ranking/watchlist hybrid. I'll provide a little more context when I do the update.
Thanks for sharing! Would love to hear your reasoning for Ruckdäschel+Sumpf ahead of Bicker and Niehus ahead of Panocha. Ruckdäschel, to me, doesn’t do anything at a level necessary to be drafted. And Niehus was one of the big disappointments of the season. Panocha on the other hand, and I think I’ve mentioned this before, is who I think has the best draft chances among Germans this year.
 

Maverick41

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Thanks for sharing! Would love to hear your reasoning for Ruckdäschel+Sumpf ahead of Bicker and Niehus ahead of Panocha. Ruckdäschel, to me, doesn’t do anything at a level necessary to be drafted. And Niehus was one of the big disappointments of the season. Panocha on the other hand, and I think I’ve mentioned this before, is who I think has the best draft chances among Germans this year.

TLDR: My rankings may have a consistency problem, thank you for making me realise that, and limited viewings hurt Panocha's ranking.


Full reply:
Before I get into the details, I'll admit there is an incosistency here in particular when it comes to assessing Bicker and Niehus compared to the others.
I had the same problem with Bicker and Niehus that they did not look too impressive in the DNL, a league they should frankly dominate or at least they should stand out way more than they did, and I was way harder on Bicker than I was on Niehus here, otherwise I would have either dropped Niehus a spot or two or I would have kept Bicker at the 2 spot or at worst the 3 spot.
This is where only working on the rankings for a short time here and there, whenever I found a little time probably hurt the consistency. If we ignore that inconsistency for a second the following was my reasoning:

Ruckdäschel over Bicker:
Bicker has more gamebreaking potential and the higher ceiling, but I like Ruckdäschel's game a lot. Unlike Bicker he has been remarkably consistent for a young player, whenever I watched him and I also like his defensive play better. Not that Bicker is bad in that regard, he is a dangerous penalty killer for example, but overall I think Ruckdäschel is the smarter and better player in his own zone. Combine that with the disappointing offense from Bicker in the DNL and I went with Ruckdäschel over him by a hair. All three, including Sumpf were very close, and even Brandl was not that far ahead.

Sumpf over Bicker:
This was a tricky one. I have seen Bicker more than Sumpf, who I watched mostly on the national team, where he outperformed Bicker as far as I am concerned. Not by a mile, but to noticeable degree. There were a few instances where the team was playing bad and Sumpf seemingly just decided to take over and to create a couple of chances by himself. That was basically the tie breaker for me. Again these three are incredibly close for me.

Niehus over Panocha:
First, I want to thank you for making me look back into this, because I just noticed a mistake in my ranking not in the positions, but in the rating. Panocha should have a "C" rating same as the 5 above him. I'll correct that in a minute after I finish this post.

Now we go back to the incosistency because, if I had followed the same arguments for the decision between Niehus and Panocha, I probably would have swapped those two. Because where I was choosing the higher floor (in my opinion) over the higher ceiling in the Sumpf, Ruckdäschel, Bicker situation, I went the other way with Niehus and Panocha.

While Niehus' season was a far cry from last year, where he seemed like a much better prospect, he still shows these flashes of brilliance that make him very intriguing for me, even if I have come to doubt his hockey iq a little more this season. I also sometimes have trouble "letting go" of a player I fell in love with at some point earlier. I had a similar problem with Kechter last year, and several others over the years who were less prominent.

But what hurt Panocha the most compared to Niehus as far as my ranking is concerned is that I just didn't get to watch him a whole lot compared to almost everyone else. His DEL appearances were to short to take anything away from and I did not see a lot of DNL games of him, which probably put him at a disadvantage.

I believe it was In the Bicker thread in the prospect section, where you first mentioned that you think Panocha has the best odds at being drafted.
He had been a riser for me throughout the season, but I thought that was overrating him, because even if I have never seen him play a bad game in the few I have seen, I did not see anything that I felt would attract the attention of NHL scouts. Since that initial reaction I thought a bit more about it and while I still don't agree (again based on a fairly small sample size) I can see where you might be coming from.

I may have, in my head, conflated NHL or North American media, who respond favorably to flashy attention grabbing hockey (like Bicker at the Hlinka),
with NHL scouts, who might have more appreciation for Panocha's game.
Still, I want to see more from him and hopefully I'll get the chance at the WJC U18 in April.


Btw, in order to make the rankings more consistent even if I have to work on them with breaks of sometimes several days in between, I am playing around with a new rating system, similar to the old HF system where players had grades like 8.5 B or 7.0 C etc.
I will probably not use that same format, but I am trying to create a score for each player that reflects my assessment of their floor, their ceiling and the likelihood they reach that ceiling. But that is something for the offseason. If I can come up with something that works I will start using it next season.
 
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pgfan66

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TLDR: My rankings may have a consistency problem, thank you for making me realise that, and limited viewings hurt Panocha's ranking.


Full reply:
Before I get into the details, I'll admit there is an incosistency here in particular when it comes to assessing Bicker and Niehus compared to the others.
I had the same problem with Bicker and Niehus that they did not look too impressive in the DNL, a league they should frankly dominate or at least they should stand out way more than they did, and I was way harder on Bicker than I was on Niehus here, otherwise I would have either dropped Niehus a spot or two or I would have kept Bicker at the 2 spot or at worst the 3 spot.
This is where only working on the rankings for a short time here and there, whenever I found a little time probably hurt the consistency. If we ignore that inconsistency for a second the following was my reasoning:

Ruckdäschel over Bicker:
Bicker has more gamebreaking potential and the higher ceiling, but I like Ruckdäschel's game a lot. Unlike Bicker he has been remarkably consistent for a young player, whenever I watched him and I also like his defensive play better. Not that Bicker is bad in that regard, he is a dangerous penalty killer for example, but overall I think Ruckdäschel is the smarter and better player in his own zone. Combine that with the disappointing offense from Bicker in the DNL and I went with Ruckdäschel over him by a hair. All three, including Sumpf were very close, and even Brandl was not that far ahead.

Sumpf over Bicker:
This was a tricky one. I have seen Bicker more than Sumpf, who I watched mostly on the national team, where he outperformed Bicker as far as I am concerned. Not by a mile, but to noticeable degree. There were a few instances where the team was playing bad and Sumpf seemingly just decided to take over and to create a couple of chances by himself. That was basically the tie breaker for me. Again these three are incredibly close for me.

Niehus over Panocha:
First, I want to thank you for making me look back into this, because I just noticed a mistake in my ranking not in the positions, but in the rating. Panocha should have a "C" rating same as the 5 above him. I'll correct that in a minute after I finish this post.

Now we go back to the incosistency because, if I had followed the same arguments for the decision between Niehus and Panocha, I probably would have swapped those two. Because where I was choosing the higher floor (in my opinion) over the higher ceiling in the Sumpf, Ruckdäschel, Bicker situation, I went the other way with Niehus and Panocha.

While Niehus' season was a far cry from last year, where he seemed like a much better prospect, he still shows these flashes of brilliance that make him very intriguing for me, even if I have come to doubt his hockey iq a little more this season. I also sometimes have trouble "letting go" of a player I fell in love with at some point earlier. I had a similar problem with Kechter last year, and several others over the years who were less prominent.

But what hurt Panocha the most compared to Niehus as far as my ranking is concerned is that I just didn't get to watch him a whole lot compared to almost everyone else. His DEL appearances were to short to take anything away from and I did not see a lot of DNL games of him, which probably put him at a disadvantage.

I believe it was In the Bicker thread in the prospect section, where you first mentioned that you think Panocha has the best odds at being drafted.
He had been a riser for me throughout the season, but I thought that was overrating him, because even if I have never seen him play a bad game in the few I have seen, I did not see anything that I felt would attract the attention of NHL scouts. Since that initial reaction I thought a bit more about it and while I still don't agree (again based on a fairly small sample size) I can see where you might be coming from.

I may have, in my head, conflated NHL or North American media, who respond favorably to flashy attention grabbing hockey (like Bicker at the Hlinka),
with NHL scouts, who might have more appreciation for Panocha's game.
Still, I want to see more from him and hopefully I'll get the chance at the WJC U18 in April.


Btw, in order to make the rankings more consistent even if I have to work on them with breaks of sometimes several days in between, I am playing around with a new rating system, similar to the old HF system where players had grades like 8.5 B or 7.0 C etc.
I will probably not use that same format, but I am trying to create a score for each player that reflects my assessment of their floor, their ceiling and the likelihood they reach that ceiling. But that is something for the offseason. If I can come up with something that works I will start using it next season.
Really appreciate the detailed response! The beauty of it is that there’s no right or wrong. And specifically with these German kids, chances are they’ll all go undrafted and never sniff the NHL. But it’s still fun to debate!
 

Maverick41

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I think I will finish the 2025 ranking tomorrow. Actually, they've been sort of finished for a while, but like last time I have serious problems agreeing with myselfs about the ranking of the top prospects. I am content with my rankings from 7 onwards, but the top 6 change every time I look them over.
But at some point tomorrow I'll probably give up and post whatever I have at that moment.

Also a quick disclaimer about the other rankings and watchlists:
The 2026 rankings/watchlist and to a lesser degree the 2027 watchlist are based on information from before the DEB U15 championship that featured many of our best 2008 and 2009 prospects. My final rankings of the season in June will include what I gathered from that tournament. And I can already say that this will almost certainly lead to some big changes and should give me enough information to turn at least the 2026 list into a full ranking and even rank a few players at the top of the 2027 list.

For the lists beyond 2027 I will likely share siginificantly more names I have on my radar, than I did in the January lists. The pool of players I have now on my radar has more than quadrupled since January, though I will not post all of the new names in my watchlists at this point, and focus on the ones I consider the most interesting. If anyone wants to have the full lists, send me a PM and I will share them once I have finished the entire update.
 

Maverick41

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The 2025 ranking is done. Please don't ask me for my reasoning of ranking the top 5 or 6, because I cannot really give one. I was ready to decide the ranking by literally rolling the dice. In the end I decided to just make a minor change within this group by moving Willhöft back up a bit.

This group is simultaneously the most fun and the most infuriating to work on.

Expect the 2026 updated on Friday or Saturday.
 

Maverick41

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I will be updating the 2026 list in a moment, but before I do that I want to share a bit of additional information.

As mentioned before I made my first ranking of this group, but this is very incomplete. I have ranked 16 players, because these are the 16 players I have either seen myself, or at the very least have enough information from people I trust, that I am comfortable to rank them at this point.

I will also post the rest of my watchlist for this group. There are some players on this list that I have higher hopes for than for some of the ones I have ranked, but I have either not seen them or just not enough data/information to rank them yet.

It's all a bit complicated, so if anybody has questions I'll do my best to answer them.

Now I'm off to edit the post on the first page.

P.S.: For 2027 and beyond I'll go a similar way, except I will only post the players I rank but not my watchlists, but in order to rank any players in those groups I had to be a bit more generous when it comes to viewings and trusted information. So there will be a good deal more interpretation of stats and uncoroborated hearsay, but I thought I just give it a try.

In light of that maybe it's time for a general disclaimer:
I am doing this for fun, so don't put too much stock into it, because I don't want anyone get the worng idea here, like I am some sort of pro with actual scouting experience and a network of sources. I try to watch more and more U20, U17, U15 and even U13 games via stream, but I am still about 50% stat watcher, and those "people I trust" were 3 (now only 2 since one died from Covid in 2021) guys and only one of them I actually know in real life, the other remaining guy I only correspond with online and via email, and they, like me, are just fans with no special scouting experience.

Just to put things in perspective, because I am not trying to fool people here into thinking what I am sharing here is some great scientific or professional work.
 

Maverick41

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So, I finished all the updates.

These are (in short) my thoughts on the next few German draft classes. Obviously the further we go into the future the less certain I am.

2023: Pretty meh, nobody to get excited about.
2024: Better than 2023, but still fairly unimpressive, didn't like the recent development for many of the players.
2025: Best group since 2020, lacking a bit in top end talent (compared to 2020), but a lot of depth paired with some legit NHL prospects.
2026: Not as good as 2025 but possibly better than 2024, some intriguing talent at the top, and the depth starts to come along slowly.

2027: To soon to even really guess, but there are some kids I've seen that look promising and I really want to see them against better competition.
 

Chapin Landvogt

Registered User
Jul 4, 2002
20,416
6,556
Germany
So, I finished all the updates.

These are (in short) my thoughts on the next few German draft classes. Obviously the further we go into the future the less certain I am.

2023: Pretty meh, nobody to get excited about.
2024: Better than 2023, but still fairly unimpressive, didn't like the recent development for many of the players.
2025: Best group since 2020, lacking a bit in top end talent (compared to 2020), but a lot of depth paired with some legit NHL prospects.
2026: Not as good as 2025 but possibly better than 2024, some intriguing talent at the top, and the depth starts to come along slowly.

2027: To soon to even really guess, but there are some kids I've seen that look promising and I really want to see them against better competition.

The lists are absolutely fantastic.

I can't take issue with anything there in the grand scheme of things.

And as far as draftability is concerned, this year is indeed very "meh" while next year may end up being so as well unless particularly Tropmann and Mayer can up the ante (as in, turn themselves into DEL regulars).

Let's hope 2025 is the year a wave of German kids make themselves noticeable, because there are currently a handful of candidates that are on the best path to gaining draft consideration.

Back to 2023:
I'm going to say that the two Germans with the best chance of getting drafted are overagers, and admittedly goalies. Bugl and Tiefensee did not go without recognition for their DEL feats this year.
 

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