German Prospects for the NHL Draft

[pgfan66]

I will update my rankings over the course of this week, even though I haven't watched all the games and players I had been meaning to watch, so there will certainly be some omissions and skewed rankings.
But if I don't do it now, I have no idea when I will have the time again, to do it.

I have added the current stats for the ranked players except the goalies, for them I have only listed the number of games played.

Looking forward to it!

 

[Maverick41]

The rankings for 2023 and 2024 are done as well as the overagers and free agents.
Should get the 2025 rankings done tomorrow. They are mostly done already, but I am still fiddling with them because those kids are damn difficult to rank because I really like so many of them. 2024 was also bad in that regard but 2025 is even worse (in a good way).
If even half of them turn out as good as I think they might, we will have good year. Not remotely close to 2020, because there is not the same kind of high-end talent, but the depths could be very impressive.
It's still a long way to go, so I may end up very wrong, but so far I really like the 2025 class.

My lists for the drafts beyond 2025 will probably not change that much, because I have not been able to get through my new data on them yet, and there is almost no video available. I will post them nonetheless (probably on the weekend) and then hopefully update them as I go along. Since 2026 and beyond is so far away I am not too bothered by it, those lists are really just about throwing out some names and see if they acutally turn into interesting prospects, anyway.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

The rankings for 2023 and 2024 are done as well as the overagers and free agents.
Should get the 2025 rankings done tomorrow. They are mostly done already, but I am still fiddling with them because those kids are damn difficult to rank because I really like so many of them. 2024 was also bad in that regard but 2025 is even worse (in a good way).
If even half of them turn out as good as I think they might, we will have good year. Not remotely close to 2020, because there is not the same kind of high-end talent, but the depths could be very impressive.
It's still a long way to go, so I may end up very wrong, but so far I really like the 2025 class.

My lists for the drafts beyond 2025 will probably not change that much, because I have not been able to get through my new data on them yet, and there is almost no video available. I will post them nonetheless (probably on the weekend) and then hopefully update them as I go along. Since 2026 and beyond is so far away I am not too bothered by it, those lists are really just about throwing out some names and see if they acutally turn into interesting prospects, anyway.

You are a gift to the hockey community!

 

[pgfan66]

The rankings for 2023 and 2024 are done as well as the overagers and free agents.
Should get the 2025 rankings done tomorrow. They are mostly done already, but I am still fiddling with them because those kids are damn difficult to rank because I really like so many of them. 2024 was also bad in that regard but 2025 is even worse (in a good way).
If even half of them turn out as good as I think they might, we will have good year. Not remotely close to 2020, because there is not the same kind of high-end talent, but the depths could be very impressive.
It's still a long way to go, so I may end up very wrong, but so far I really like the 2025 class.

My lists for the drafts beyond 2025 will probably not change that much, because I have not been able to get through my new data on them yet, and there is almost no video available. I will post them nonetheless (probably on the weekend) and then hopefully update them as I go along. Since 2026 and beyond is so far away I am not too bothered by it, those lists are really just about throwing out some names and see if they acutally turn into interesting prospects, anyway.

I see we’re on the same page with the 05s!

 

[Maverick41]

I see we’re on the same page with the 05s!

Yes, I am still probably a little higher on Mayer than you, but he has not made as much progress as I had hoped.
At this point I still have him ahead of Brandl (who is of course 2023 eligible), because, like you, I also think his upside is very high, and I put a little more stock on upside for now.

If I ranked just the 05s regardless of draft eligibility my top 5 would look like this:
1. Tropmann
2. Mayer
3. Brandl
4. Bicker
5. Sumpf

Niehus is a weird case for me. I have seen him play a few times over the last couple of years (maybe 8-10 games). In one game he was crazy good, in another he also stood out in a good way, but in all the others I barely noticed him. Not necessarily bad for a defenseman, but still a bit disappointing, becasue I had seen him play so much better. Maybe I had just bad luck with the games I watched.
So, it was kind of reassuring when I read your post where you mentioned his incosistent play. He is sort of a darkhorse that could move up the rankings quite a bit. I'll have to check the schedule when I get the next chance to see him and the rest of the Jungadler team play again.

 

[Bombay66]

just realized that Bicker was added to the draft prospects for 2023 by elite. Sportsnet ranking him as number #29 ?!

Kevin Bicker - Stats, Contract, Salary & More

Eliteprospects.com hockey player profile of Kevin Bicker, 2005-01-29 Schwabach, GER Germany. Most recently in the DEL with Löwen Frankfurt. Complete player biography and stats.

www.eliteprospects.com

mainly cause of his points at the hlinka I guess.

Whats your thoughts about him?
I think he will need to get some toi at the DEL in order to have the slightest chance to get drafted, not even mentioning first round.

 

[Maverick41]

just realized that Bicker was added to the draft prospects for 2023 by elite. Sportsnet ranking him as number #29 ?!

Kevin Bicker - Stats, Contract, Salary & More

Eliteprospects.com hockey player profile of Kevin Bicker, 2005-01-29 Schwabach, GER Germany. Most recently in the DEL with Löwen Frankfurt. Complete player biography and stats.

www.eliteprospects.com

mainly cause of his points at the hlinka I guess.

Whats your thoughts about him?
I think he will need to get some toi at the DEL in order to have the slightest chance to get drafted, not even mentioning first round.

I agree that the Hlinka is the main, possibly the only, reason he is listed that high. Linus Brandl is the better prospect in my opinion, but Bicker is still an interesting player to keep an eye on.

I think there are other options than DEL games for him to get drafted. If he were to make the World Junior team and do ok there, it could get him noticed as much, maybe even more than games in the DEL. And even an outstanding U18 WJC could get him drafted in the late rounds. But all of that is a tall order and I would categorize it as possible but unlikely at this point.

Still, the Hlinka by itself will have put him on the radar for some teams, that gives him a better chance than most of our prospects any given year.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

just realized that Bicker was added to the draft prospects for 2023 by elite. Sportsnet ranking him as number #29 ?!

Sportsnet?

They're not exactly one of the traditional prospect agencies of note.

I think he will need to get some toi at the DEL in order to have the slightest chance to get drafted, not even mentioning first round.

I can see Bicker getting a shot in Heilbronn at some point, which has a partnership with Mannheim. The size and drive are there.

However, Brandl was not only ahead of Bicker at the Hlinka, he's ahead of him in the DNL team now as well.

In fact, he's third overall in DNL scoring behind overagers Justin Büsing (a very small 19-year-old who was already quite impressive last season) and Rik Gaidel (who was a member of the U18 squad at the Worlds last spring). He's the only 17-year-old among the top five in league scoring.

I think he's the real kid to watch here.

I think there are other options than DEL games for him to get drafted. If he were to make the World Junior team and do ok there, it could get him noticed as much, maybe even more than games in the DEL. And even an outstanding U18 WJC could get him drafted in the late rounds. But all of that is a tall order and I would categorize it as possible but unlikely at this point.

It may be just me, but I don't see anyone from last summer's Hlinka Gretzky team being taken into consideration for the WJC squad this Christmas.

The forward group seems as good as decided, doesn't it?

 

[Bombay66]

I had an eye on Max Weilandt with double citizenship from USA and Germany when he was playing in the 16U AAA

Max Weilandt - Stats, Contract, Salary & More

Eliteprospects.com hockey player profile of Max Weilandt, 2005-07-29 Northbrook, IL, USA USA. Most recently in the USHL with Des Moines Buccaneers. Complete player biography and stats.

www.eliteprospects.com

His numbers in the 18U AAA are getting even better now with a 12 games winning streak.
My knowledge about these leagues is not very "detailed".

Can anyone rank his numbers ?
thx

 

[Maverick41]

It may be just me, but I don't see anyone from last summer's Hlinka Gretzky team being taken into consideration for the WJC squad this Christmas.

The forward group seems as good as decided, doesn't it?

It looks that way.
In general the coaches don't like to bring double underagers, unless they are special, which none of the '05 forwards are, or if there is absolutely horrendous depths in any particular year. But while even the forward group looks not that good this year, it has enough quality and depths to keep any '05 forwards off the team.
The only thing that could change that are multiple injuries, like a lot of those.

I guess my post implied that I thought it was actually realistic that he could make it. That's not the case. I absolutely agree, that it is unlikely we see any double underage forward on the WJC roster.
On defense it is a different story. Our depths there is abysmal and Tropmann and maybe Mayer could have a shot at making the team.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

In general the coaches don't like to bring double underagers, unless they are special, which none of the '05 forwards are, or if there is absolutely horrendous depths in any particular year. But while even the forward group looks not that good this year, it has enough quality and depths to keep any '05 forwards off the team.
The only thing that could change that are multiple injuries, like a lot of those.

I mostly agree. But the scary thing is that not only is there no Stützle or Peterka, there's not even a Elias or Blank.

Rossmy and Hänelt look like "the" guys up front and then it gets a bit scary. Proske will surely play a much bigger role, but I dunno if Del Monte will return. His deployment this summer makes me think he wasn't all that cherished by the staff. But he's off to a good scoring start (but somehow already -10) with London, a top outfit. Kinda have to have him there, right? The Heigl brothers are locks and Hauf will surely be there, even if his start in the WHL has been humble, to put it nicely.

After that, Lutz is obviously a lock and I gotta think Kechter, Krening, and even Oswald (maybe for family friendship reasons, if nothing else?) are going to be there. Hördler and Heim each have a shot. I guess Rollinger does too. Do they give Cologne's dynamic DNL duo a look? Gaidel was with the U18 already. And Büsing's stats really can't be overlooked just because of size anymore. If would help if these guys were getting a look at a pro level in the course of November.

I think one guy that could be in the equation, rather unexpectedly, is Quirin Bader. Don't be surprised if he gets in there. I'm thinking he very well might.

That all makes me wonder if they'd really give Sumpf, Brandl, Schreiner, and Bicker - in that order - consideration? I think they are each, in their own way, more skilled than a number of guys who have played in recent years.

I guess my post implied that I thought it was actually realistic that he could make it. That's not the case. I absolutely agree, that it is unlikely we see any double underage forward on the WJC roster. On defense it is a different story. Our depths there is abysmal and Tropmann and maybe Mayer could have a shot at making the team.

Agreed here too. And thinking of this upcoming WJC squad without Münzenberger and Szuber has me rolling my eyeballs.

We're talking about Klein, Elten, and the previously unused Van der Linde being the only returnees. Bettahar has to be a logical addition. I'm hoping Hübner is doing well enough in Finland to be a logical addition. I'm personally a Kauhanen fan, but he hasn't even been suited up much for the RB Juniors of the AlpsHL (granted, he seems to be killing it for their U20 team). I'm gonna say that Bidoul is definitely on the radar. I think Kai Zernickel might just have to be one of the 8 due to size and DEL experience alone.

I had thought that Markus Freis might slip into the conversation, but he's off to a slow(er) start (as is Van der Linde, to be honest). Been saying all along that it would be HUGE if Hafenrichter could somehow come out of whatever shell he's hiding under. His start with Bad Nauheim is actually a bit promising, in the grand scheme of things. I don't think Julian Wäser is going to make the cut - or even really be considered.

Might Abstreiter have a big surprise like Nifosi on his radar? Could Sten Fischer have a shot?

So, the question that begs is if Tropmann or, like you mention, Mayer, sneak into the conversation? Could they be any worse than several of the options mentioned above? I sure would love to see Tropmann get a look in the Oberliga sometime in November, just to gauge his very strong start to the DNL season.

My outsider tip:
Lars Bosecker makes the cut.

GOALTENDING:
Goaltending will now be an issue as well. I though it would be Quapp, Wolf, and perhaps Dietl. But how long will Quapp be out now? Even if he comes back right before the tourney, is it worth having him there without being in the swing of things?

 

[Maverick41]

I mostly agree. But the scary thing is that not only is there no Stützle or Peterka, there's not even a Elias or Blank.

Rossmy and Hänelt look like "the" guys up front and then it gets a bit scary. Proske will surely play a much bigger role, but I dunno if Del Monte will return. His deployment this summer makes me think he wasn't all that cherished by the staff. But he's off to a good scoring start (but somehow already -10) with London, a top outfit. Kinda have to have him there, right? The Heigl brothers are locks and Hauf will surely be there, even if his start in the WHL has been humble, to put it nicely.

After that, Lutz is obviously a lock and I gotta think Kechter, Krening, and even Oswald (maybe for family friendship reasons, if nothing else?) are going to be there. Hördler and Heim each have a shot. I guess Rollinger does too. Do they give Cologne's dynamic DNL duo a look? Gaidel was with the U18 already. And Büsing's stats really can't be overlooked just because of size anymore. If would help if these guys were getting a look at a pro level in the course of November.

I think one guy that could be in the equation, rather unexpectedly, is Quirin Bader. Don't be surprised if he gets in there. I'm thinking he very well might.

That all makes me wonder if they'd really give Sumpf, Brandl, Schreiner, and Bicker - in that order - consideration? I think they are each, in their own way, more skilled than a number of guys who have played in recent years.



Agreed here too. And thinking of this upcoming WJC squad without Münzenberger and Szuber has me rolling my eyeballs.

We're talking about Klein, Elten, and the previously unused Van der Linde being the only returnees. Bettahar has to be a logical addition. I'm hoping Hübner is doing well enough in Finland to be a logical addition. I'm personally a Kauhanen fan, but he hasn't even been suited up much for the RB Juniors of the AlpsHL (granted, he seems to be killing it for their U20 team). I'm gonna say that Bidoul is definitely on the radar. I think Kai Zernickel might just have to be one of the 8 due to size and DEL experience alone.

I had thought that Markus Freis might slip into the conversation, but he's off to a slow(er) start (as is Van der Linde, to be honest). Been saying all along that it would be HUGE if Hafenrichter could somehow come out of whatever shell he's hiding under. His start with Bad Nauheim is actually a bit promising, in the grand scheme of things. I don't think Julian Wäser is going to make the cut - or even really be considered.

Might Abstreiter have a big surprise like Nifosi on his radar? Could Sten Fischer have a shot?

So, the question that begs is if Tropmann or, like you mention, Mayer, sneak into the conversation? Could they be any worse than several of the options mentioned above? I sure would love to see Tropmann get a look in the Oberliga sometime in November, just to gauge his very strong start to the DNL season.

My outsider tip:
Lars Bosecker makes the cut.

GOALTENDING:
Goaltending will now be an issue as well. I though it would be Quapp, Wolf, and perhaps Dietl. But how long will Quapp be out now? Even if he comes back right before the tourney, is it worth having him there without being in the swing of things?

I am going to bed now, but before I do that I want to throw out a couple of names I have on my list.
Niklas Hörmann on defense, he should at least be in consideration, and among forwards I have a couple of '04s that might warrant consideration. Nikita Krymskiy is doing fairly well in Krefeld (DEL2), and as a real long shot Justi Späth who is off to good start with Bad Tölz in the Oberliga.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

I am going to bed now, but before I do that I want to throw out a couple of names I have on my list.
Niklas Hörmann on defense, he should at least be in consideration, and among forwards I have a couple of '04s that might warrant consideration. Nikita Krymskiy is doing fairly well in Krefeld (DEL2), and as a real long shot Justi Späth who is off to good start with Bad Tölz in the Oberliga.

Indeed, both Hörmann (what size!) and Späth (over a PPG in the Oberliga for a kid his age? Nice!) look interesting.

I purposely didn't name Krymskiy because as nice as his start was, he hasn't gotten a point the past five games and there's no telling what kind of a role Draisaitl is going to want to see him in from here on out. His early season fortunes could change very quickly.

So until he shows otherwise, I'm gonna assume he's not one of the top 15 or so forwards they're currently viewing for the WJC team.

Here's hoping he shows "otherwise".

 

[Bombay66]

tropmann now on loan to nauheim at del2...excited to see his development and performance in a mens league from now on

Edwin Tropmann - Stats, Contract, Salary & More

Eliteprospects.com hockey player profile of Edwin Tropmann, 2005-10-05 Lippstadt, GER Germany. Most recently in the DEL with Kölner Haie. Complete player biography and stats.

www.eliteprospects.com

 

[pgfan66]

tropmann now on loan to nauheim at del2...excited to see his development and performance in a mens league from now on

Edwin Tropmann - Stats, Contract, Salary & More

Eliteprospects.com hockey player profile of Edwin Tropmann, 2005-10-05 Lippstadt, GER Germany. Most recently in the DEL with Kölner Haie. Complete player biography and stats.

www.eliteprospects.com

Pretty sure he’ll remain a full-timer in the DNL with occasional DEL2 call-ups.

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

I don't think any of these kids are really gonna come close to Draisaitl, Kahun or Rieder (statistically). What these 3 did at that level will probably not be repeated by anyone anytime soon.

Since I have not seen them play, I cannot comment on their skills or talent.
But I believe that Tobias Eder is the most promising of the lot. But this is just a hunch based on past numbers both in league play and international play. So don't put too much stock in it.

Eder comes from an interesting family, as far as hockey is concerned. His brother Andreas is playing in the WHL, and his cousin and teammate Michael Grabmaier seems also to be a rather talented young player.

Don't see him listed among the overages for the 2023 NHL Draft but just curious about Dusseldorfer defenseman

Justus Böttner?​

Playing in DEL as a 20-year-old after mostly playing in German third league.

Any value as a late bloomer or is his game more suited to the domestic league in Germany?

 

[Maverick41]

Don't see him listed among the overages for the 2023 NHL Draft but just curious about Dusseldorfer defenseman

Justus Böttner?​

Playing in DEL as a 20-year-old after mostly playing in German third league.

Any value as a late bloomer or is his game more suited to the domestic league in Germany?

Böttner was a surprise for me. I did not expect him to play any significant number of games with any decent ice time in the DEL, but he has acquitted himself well so far.
However, nothing really screams NHL upside. We have had other players getting some shots at 20, 21, 22 and once they were no longer counted as U23 players they disappeared in DEL 2 and Oberliga, because they only had value to DEL teams as U23 players in order to satisfy the rules for a mandatory number of such players.
Could Böttner turn out good enough to stick around in the DEL? Certainly, it is not a given, but he is off to a really good start, but the NHL seems out of reach unless he improves by leaps and bounds and even then it would be questionable.
I still have him comfortably behind fellow 2002 defensemen Maximilian Glötzl and Arkadiusz Dziambor and possibly Fabrizio Pilu (not including Coyotes draftee Maksymilian Szuber). And I really don't see any of them becoming NHL players at this point.

Unfortunately I don't really see any hidden gems in the DEL at this point. The only reason I may consider guys like Tiefensee, Ancicka or Bugl is because goalies are voodoo, and who knows what might happen with them.

 

[pgfan66]

Don't see him listed among the overages for the 2023 NHL Draft but just curious about Dusseldorfer defenseman

Justus Böttner?​

Playing in DEL as a 20-year-old after mostly playing in German third league.

Any value as a late bloomer or is his game more suited to the domestic league in Germany?

The only reason he's in the DEL is that Kyle Cumiskey got injured early, Düsseldorf really lacks depth and they don't have enough money to pay more for depth guys. It's telling that he wasn't even in the DEL2 before joining the DEG.

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

Böttner was a surprise for me. I did not expect him to play any significant number of games with any decent ice time in the DEL, but he has acquitted himself well so far.
However, nothing really screams NHL upside. We have had other players getting some shots at 20, 21, 22 and once they were no longer counted as U23 players they disappeared in DEL 2 and Oberliga, because they only had value to DEL teams as U23 players in order to satisfy the rules for a mandatory number of such players.
Could Böttner turn out good enough to stick around in the DEL? Certainly, it is not a given, but he is off to a really good start, but the NHL seems out of reach unless he improves by leaps and bounds and even then it would be questionable.
I still have him comfortably behind fellow 2002 defensemen Maximilian Glötzl and Arkadiusz Dziambor and possibly Fabrizio Pilu (not including Coyotes draftee Maksymilian Szuber). And I really don't see any of them becoming NHL players at this point.

Unfortunately I don't really see any hidden gems in the DEL at this point. The only reason I may consider guys like Tiefensee, Ancicka or Bugl is because goalies are voodoo, and who knows what might happen with them.

Thanks for the insight. Didn't realize there was a U23 component to rosters in the DEL.

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

The post above is just about DEL2.

Here is the list of 16 year olds in the DEL since 1994 (there may have been more in the past but I could not find any data):

2020-21:
Roman Kechter (Nürnberg) - 21 games
Moritz Elias (Nürnberg) - 16 games
Leo Hafenrichter (Köln) - 2 games
Luca Hauf (Krefeld) - 2 games

2017-18:
Moritz Seider (Mannheim) - 4 games

2005-06:
Andre Huebscher (Krefeld) - 6 games
Danny Fischbach (Krefeld) - 4 games

2004-05:
Christian Wendler (Krefeld) - 1 game*

2003-04:
Christoph Gawlik (Mannheim) - 2 games

2002-03:
Andy Reiss (Hannover) - 3 games
Nikolai Goc (Schwenningen) - 1 game

2001-02:
Patrick Koslow (Augsburg) - 2 games*

1999-00:
Marcel Goc (Schwenningen) - 51 games

1995-96:
Christian Schönmoser (Riessersee) - 20 games
Sascha Goc (Schwenningen) - 1 game

*Goalies

Remember a former NHL head coach talking of Pawlik's potential when he first appeared in the DEL. Never drafted or signed and except for one 20 goal season seemed to have a very mediocre career.

Any reason for that?

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

A couple of more things about Böttner, without having read everything posted here yet:
- I think he was on a bit of a tryout with Düsseldorf and they surprisingly brought him into the fold. The plan was to remain with 3rd leaguer Erfurt this season, for whom he ended up being a big loss.
- He was named to the WJC squad for the tournament that got cancelled after two games, but although eligible, was not named to this summer's team. That was a bit surprising.

 

[pgfan66]

Paul Mayer is expected to make his DEL debut with Mannheim soon:

 

[Maverick41]

Paul Mayer is expected to make his DEL debut with Mannheim soon:

So a total of 4 players received a "Förderlizenz".
Not surprising that they made a couple of goalies available in case of emergency, though I doubt either one of them will play in the DEL any time soon.

For Mayer it was probably always the plan to give him a little taste of DEL hockey, but as much as I like him, I doubt he sticks around at this point.

As for Bicker, this is just me guessing, but I think it would probably have been Brandl in his place, but I suspect he is injured. Still haven't found confirmation of that, though. However, I did like Bicker's play for the U18 team last week.

 

[GermanSpitfire]

Clemons Sager isn’t a name I really took seriously last year - just continues to pile up the points as a 16 year old this season.

 

[GermanSpitfire]

Bicker has made his DEL debit - he got 3 shifts and played a total of 2:14 in the game.