General COVID-19 talk, NHL remains suspended MOD Warning post #1

[Raccoon Jesus]

Have death rates been steadily increasing? I was trying to find some data on day to day increases and wasn't able to. I did find that hospitalization rates have remained shockingly stable though.

As a rolling average, yes. We may be peaking in regards to that, but we certainly haven't started the downslope yet.

COVID-19/Coronavirus Live Updates With Credible Sources in US and Canada | 1Point3Acres

The worst day we had so far was 4/22 but we've had several 80 and 90+s since then.

Of course as you point out, data recording is all over the map.

I think there are a couple of issues here. The first is anyone who is tested positive for covd is being listed as a covid death. I've seen reports of overdoses and car accidents being counted. Secondly, what role did covid play in a patient dying? Since this affects nursing homes the most, nearly all patients who passed have a long list of complications. Did a patient with renal failure and end stage cancer pass due to covid? If this is as wide spread as most think, there are going to be a lot of natural deaths ending with people testing positive for the disease, should all of those be counted?

Again, if this spreads as quickly as some imagine it could, the death curve number could continue to rise just based on the fact that many have it.

But i mean, where do you draw the line? Why does everyone have a problem labeling it as a Covid death if they die during the couple of weeks they have the virus? If there was some evidence that covid itself isn't an issue I'd understand, but there's zero point to going to a nursing home, realizing that 20 people died with covid, and going "well, Bob died of fever, Susan died of kidney failure, John of respiratory failure, and all of them had Covid...but let's not check that box." When you have 20-30 people dying in the same month, yes, you look at the comorbidities, but it would be completely foolish to erase Covid--and again this is consistent with medical reporting for the last many years.

The signal-to-noise ratio of a car accident to covid deaths being recorded is extremely low, especially in the face of the idea that we're likely underrecording things as well.

Lastly, I don't think this should be just a case of suck it up. It's not people being whiny, this lockdown has tangible consequences and extending it 2 weeks will cause harm. If there is no goal to the lockdown anymore and we are eventually going to open up, then postponing it 2 weeks means you are causing unnecessary harm.

I agree, and as you saw, my complaint is that it's all indefinite. But that two week number wasn't arbitrary, it was linked to the Phase 2 criteria, that of we need to be over the curve hump to start reopening. We MIGHT be there, but as of at least yesterday deaths are still rising--reopening in the face of rising deaths without proven treatment options or even effective testing/tracing (sounds like LA county is getting there at least?), then everything we did for the last month is nice, but could be sabotaged. When I say "just suck it up" that would be in reference to the hypothetical scenario where we ARE on the downslope, just hang in there for two more weeks then we can push forward.

But with deaths still rising, and cases still rising (likely related to testing), opening everything up right now stands a chance of causing BIGGER economic problems than staying put for another week. I'll just have to respectfully disagree with anyone who thinks otherwise, I guess. It sounds like we're in agreement though that there needs to be a more definite goal. I didn't at all like that Newsom didn't put any dates on anything. I kind of get why, but that departs from his previous stances and moves more towards the on-a-whim moves by other governors. If he's just going to proceed like this without a real concrete plan, then yeah, f*** it, open it all up, because that's shitty leadership and we're on our own anyway.

 

[KINGS17]

The goalposts have moved. It used to be we have to lock it down to prevent the hospitals from being overwhelmed. What is it now? It is not clearly defined.

 

[Fishhead]

Lastly, I don't think this should be just a case of suck it up. It's not people being whiny, this lockdown has tangible consequences and extending it 2 weeks will cause harm. If there is no goal to the lockdown anymore and we are eventually going to open up, then postponing it 2 weeks means you are causing unnecessary harm.

There is always a goal to a lockdown - to prevent unnecessary deaths. Right now, it's accomplishing that.

California is dealing with COVID better than any other state. Hospitals are not overloaded despite California ranking:

45th out of 50 for Hospital Beds per Capita

47th out of 50 for Population Density

50th out of 50 for a lack of Total Public Health Emergency Preparedness Funding Per Capita.

Those are as big of risk factors as you can get, yet people are wondering why they are stuck inside here. If we weren't handling it well or it wasn't working, people would know exactly why they were staying inside. Having thoughts that the lockdown isn't needed any longer is a huge positive, it means what we've been doing is working.

How long it should continue is fluid, but we are 100% not at the point in time where the lockdown doesn't have a goal. In a vacuum, California's plan to reopen is too early. But because of the precautions we've taken out here we can afford that luxury with a much lower risk of a rebound than other states or countries. Anyone who makes this political is just trying to further their own agenda and shouldn't be taken seriously at all. Decisions like this should be driven by data, not by who you like or hate politically.

 

[crassbonanza]

As a rolling average, yes. We may be peaking in regards to that, but we certainly haven't started the downslope yet.

COVID-19/Coronavirus Live Updates With Credible Sources in US and Canada | 1Point3Acres

The worst day we had so far was 4/22 but we've had several 80 and 90+s since then.

Of course as you point out, data recording is all over the map.

I mean, it is stable and again if it is wide spread then will it keep climbing naturally.

But i mean, where do you draw the line? Why does everyone have a problem labeling it as a Covid death if they die during the couple of weeks they have the virus? If there was some evidence that covid itself isn't an issue I'd understand, but there's zero point to going to a nursing home, realizing that 20 people died with covid, and going "well, Bob died of fever, Susan died of kidney failure, John of respiratory failure, and all of them had Covid...but let's not check that box." When you have 20-30 people dying in the same month, yes, you look at the comorbidities, but it would be completely foolish to erase Covid--and again this is consistent with medical reporting for the last many years.

The signal-to-noise ratio of a car accident to covid deaths being recorded is extremely low, especially in the face of the idea that we're likely underrecording things as well.

I don't think we should change our methods in the case of nursing homes with multiple commodities, but I do think it needs to be framed properly when presented to the public. We know that this disease spreads very rapidly and that means we are likely to see many other causes attributed to covid due to the sheer number of cases. We also know that likely more than half of the people infected are asymptomatic meaning that having the disease would not be a major factor.

I'm sure it doesn't happen often that car accidents are defined as covid deaths, but it does and a driving force behind it is funding distribution. Pennsylvania recently had to revise their numbers down 500 due to over reporting.

I agree, and as you saw, my complaint is that it's all indefinite. But that two week number wasn't arbitrary, it was linked to the Phase 2 criteria, that of we need to be over the curve hump to start reopening. We MIGHT be there, but as of at least yesterday deaths are still rising--reopening in the face of rising deaths without proven treatment options or even effective testing/tracing (sounds like LA county is getting there at least?), then everything we did for the last month is nice, but could be sabotaged. When I say "just suck it up" that would be in reference to the hypothetical scenario where we ARE on the downslope, just hang in there for two more weeks then we can push forward.

But with deaths still rising, and cases still rising (likely related to testing), opening everything up right now stands a chance of causing BIGGER economic problems than staying put for another week. I'll just have to respectfully disagree with anyone who thinks otherwise, I guess. It sounds like we're in agreement though that there needs to be a more definite goal. I didn't at all like that Newsom didn't put any dates on anything. I kind of get why, but that departs from his previous stances and moves more towards the on-a-whim moves by other governors. If he's just going to proceed like this without a real concrete plan, then yeah, f*** it, open it all up, because that's shitty leadership and we're on our own anyway.

Total of new deaths are not rising though, that seems pretty stable according to the link you provided. Cumulative deaths is rising, but that number will rise until this whole thing is over. Everything we did over the last month was supposed to be to bend the curve, not to prevent this disease from infecting anyone. I don't know when the goal posts shifted, but we were supposed to prevent the healthcare system from being overwhelmed and we accomplished that.

I do see where you are coming from and I think we agree about a lot of things with regards to the whole situation. I try not to comment too much on shit like this because I know it is a tough situation and is affecting everyone differently. I just couldn't stand Newsom's recent actions, his lecturing people in Orange County, placing new restrictions and basically telling the state that he has total authority to dictate every one of our lives. I felt like a child when he threatened us all with months of phase 1 lockdown instead of weeks if people went to the beach again. It flipped the relationship between governor and electorate and I'm not a big fan of it. I also hate how he keeps harping about how all of his decisions are based on science, when he still is relying on outdated models and not adjusting to all of the new information we have gathered throughout the outbreak. I mean, they keep showing the projection slides of hospital bed needs with the lockdown in place peaking well over capacity and the totals are nowhere near that. We used faulty models to get us here and they are still not adjusting to newer models.

 

[crassbonanza]

There is always a goal to a lockdown - to prevent unnecessary deaths. Right now, it's accomplishing that.

It is also creating unnecessary deaths. Newsom just a week ago authorized necessary medical procedures, which means they were not being performed. Unneccesary medical procedures are not being performed. We are not diagnosing people and are not providing care. Beyond all of the indirect harm, that is a direct harm this is accomplishing as well.

Those are as big of risk factors as you can get, yet people are wondering why they are stuck inside here. If we weren't handling it well or it wasn't working, people would know exactly why they were staying inside. Having thoughts that the lockdown isn't needed any longer is a huge positive, it means what we've been doing is working.

Sweden did not go for a lockdown and they are not having an overwhelming surge. Florida has had a weak lockdown this whole time and they have not had an overwhelming surge. The disease will spread whenever the state is open unless there is a vaccine. The goal was to avoid the healthcare system being overwhelmed. We are finding now that this disease is very widespread with a majority beaing asymptomatic and this affecting those 70+ with commodities predominately.

How long it should continue is fluid, but we are 100% not at the point in time where the lockdown doesn't have a goal. In a vacuum, California's plan to reopen is too early. But because of the precautions we've taken out here we can afford that luxury with a much lower risk of a rebound than other states or countries. Anyone who makes this political is just trying to further their own agenda and shouldn't be taken seriously at all. Decisions like this should be driven by data, not by who you like or hate politically.

Why are we not 100% at the time? What do you think will be different in 1 month? How about 2 months? What exactly will change?

I don't know who is being political, unless you are referencing me being pissed at Newsom? That's not politics, I'm just pissed at his decisions and attitude. I mean, he's not even just maintaining the lockdown, he is adding new restrictions

 

[KINGS17]

Perhaps some good news for immunity after infection.

Tests in recovered patients found false positives, not reinfections, experts say

The committee ruled out reactivation of COVID-19 as a reason for relapses and said there was little to no possibility that reinfections would occur due to antibodies that patients develop.

“The process in which COVID-19 produces a new virus takes place only in host cells and does not infiltrate the nucleus. This means it does not cause chronic infection or recurrence,” Oh said.

 

[Bandit]

It is also creating unnecessary deaths. Newsom just a week ago authorized necessary medical procedures, which means they were not being performed. Unneccesary medical procedures are not being performed. We are not diagnosing people and are not providing care. Beyond all of the indirect harm, that is a direct harm this is accomplishing as well.



Sweden did not go for a lockdown and they are not having an overwhelming surge. Florida has had a weak lockdown this whole time and they have not had an overwhelming surge. The disease will spread whenever the state is open unless there is a vaccine. The goal was to avoid the healthcare system being overwhelmed. We are finding now that this disease is very widespread with a majority beaing asymptomatic and this affecting those 70+ with commodities predominately.



Why are we not 100% at the time? What do you think will be different in 1 month? How about 2 months? What exactly will change?

I don't know who is being political, unless you are referencing me being pissed at Newsom? That's not politics, I'm just pissed at his decisions and attitude. I mean, he's not even just maintaining the lockdown, he is adding new restrictions

The idea is that at some point we will actually learn some concrete things about the virus that can be trusted to formulate a plan instead of just charging forward wearing a blindfold with one hand on our dicks and the other holding a flag that says “Freedom”.

the info that K17 posted above is promising, but how many things about this virus have been said and then debunked in short order? A lot.

 

[Fishhead]

It is also creating unnecessary deaths. Newsom just a week ago authorized necessary medical procedures, which means they were not being performed. Unneccesary medical procedures are not being performed. We are not diagnosing people and are not providing care. Beyond all of the indirect harm, that is a direct harm this is accomplishing as well.

Maybe you are misunderstanding what the actual procedures were, but necessary is perhaps not the best term. Procedures that were deferred were electives and non-urgent, nothing necessary was at all. A lot of medical professionals are actually against what Newsom did because it puts them more at risk for something that doesn't need to be done.

"California Gov. Gavin Newsom announced Wednesday that California hospitals can consider resuming health care procedures that were deferred because of the COVID-19 pandemic, a decision that has been met with hesitation by nurses. Elective and non-urgent surgeries and procedures, including heart valve replacements and tumor removals, were delayed to protect patients from being exposed to COVID-19, according to a press release from Newsom’s office. In light of California hospitals now being better prepared for more COVID-19 patients, hospitals are allowed to begin rescheduling appointments that had been delayed, the press release states."

So if it's creating unnecessary deaths, I don't think it has much of anything to do with that particular order. Possibly people are avoiding hospitals for emergency care, but that's more of a personal choice. To me the lifting means that certain protections are no longer needed because we've done so well.

Sweden did not go for a lockdown and they are not having an overwhelming surge. Florida has had a weak lockdown this whole time and they have not had an overwhelming surge. The disease will spread whenever the state is open unless there is a vaccine. The goal was to avoid the healthcare system being overwhelmed. We are finding now that this disease is very widespread with a majority beaing asymptomatic and this affecting those 70+ with commodities predominately.

Florida hasn't had a weak lockdown, it was just the spring break thing. Some quotes from the University of Florida:

Jerne Shapiro, a lecturer at the University of Florida’s epidemiology department - “We’re doing a really good job of social distancing,” Shapiro said. “People are taking it seriously, and that allows us to slow the spread of the disease.”

Gary Wang, chief of the UF College of Medicine’s infectious disease and global health division, was only willing to cite one thing to explain the Florida trends: “good social distancing.”

Florida held off on orders, but other than that they have had some of the better testing and buy-in of any state in the nation. Also, realize that many localities had orders in place before the order came down from the governor, notably Miami-Dade and Broward.

Sweden has 2,500+ COVID deaths, over 500 more than California. They have a population of 10M compared to California's 40M. Their death rate is over 4 times higher, and they don't have nearly the population density we have. California has 251 people per square mile, Sweden 57. I don't know the details of what they are actually doing over there, but based on the numbers it's more of an example of what not to do.

Why are we not 100% at the time? What do you think will be different in 1 month? How about 2 months? What exactly will change?

I don't know who is being political, unless you are referencing me being pissed at Newsom? That's not politics, I'm just pissed at his decisions and attitude. I mean, he's not even just maintaining the lockdown, he is adding new restrictions

I wasn't saying you were being political at all, sorry if it sounded like I inferred that. I was more referring to people who make up names for politicians and generally just troll looking for attention.

I don't think that we are at 100% because there are still enough infections live that mixing of people could easily lead to an exponential increase in cases. That's going to look very different in a month if people abide by orders as both incubation and recovery usually max out at 14 days. I don't even think it needs to be a month, I'd say a couple more weeks is all it will take to really reduce risk.

Some of the stuff I think Newsom has done is overkill, but the only new restriction I am aware of is the beach things, and that's only for Orange County beaches, a fraction of the state's coastline. Doesn't seem like anything major to me. I thought we were actually in the process of easing restrictions within the next couple weeks.

 

[Bandit]

Who keeps spouting this stupid Sweden bullshit that’s causing people to believe it?

I see it popping up everywhere as if they are a shining beacon when they have one of the higher excess mortality rates going while as was pointed out above they have 1/4 the people as California in slightly more square miles.

STAHP.

 

[Fishhead]

Perhaps some good news for immunity after infection.

Tests in recovered patients found false positives, not reinfections, experts say

The committee ruled out reactivation of COVID-19 as a reason for relapses and said there was little to no possibility that reinfections would occur due to antibodies that patients develop.

“The process in which COVID-19 produces a new virus takes place only in host cells and does not infiltrate the nucleus. This means it does not cause chronic infection or recurrence,” Oh said.

That's probably the most significant good news we've seen so far, just as big as the Oxford news that came out. Viruses (like retros) that cross the nuclear envelope are very tricky to deal with.

 

[crassbonanza]

The idea is that at some point we will actually learn some concrete things about the virus that can be trusted to formulate a plan instead of just charging forward wearing a blindfold with one hand on our dicks and the other holding a flag that says “Freedom”.

the info that K17 posted above is promising, but how many things about this virus have been said and then debunked in short order? A lot.

I thought the lockdown was to bend the curve, was it not? Now it is to "learn some concrete things"? Forget about the idiots who are asking for their constitutional rights if they bug you so much. Think about the people being directly and indirectly harmed by this continued lockdown. Realize that the continued lockdown is not a harm free decision.

 

[crassbonanza]

Maybe you are misunderstanding what the actual procedures were, but necessary is perhaps not the best term. Procedures that were deferred were electives and non-urgent, nothing necessary was at all. A lot of medical professionals are actually against what Newsom did because it puts them more at risk for something that doesn't need to be done.

"California Gov. Gavin Newsom announced Wednesday that California hospitals can consider resuming health care procedures that were deferred because of the COVID-19 pandemic, a decision that has been met with hesitation by nurses. Elective and non-urgent surgeries and procedures, including heart valve replacements and tumor removals, were delayed to protect patients from being exposed to COVID-19, according to a press release from Newsom’s office. In light of California hospitals now being better prepared for more COVID-19 patients, hospitals are allowed to begin rescheduling appointments that had been delayed, the press release states."

So if it's creating unnecessary deaths, I don't think it has much of anything to do with that particular order. Possibly people are avoiding hospitals for emergency care, but that's more of a personal choice. To me the lifting means that certain protections are no longer needed because we've done so well.

They were delaying potentially life threatening procedures. Tumor removals and heart valve replacements shouldn't have been delayed and they were. Yearly exams are being delayed. Oncologists are talking about how low the levels of new cancer diagnoses there have been. They are not being detected early and will lead to more deaths.

Sweden has 2,500+ COVID deaths, over 500 more than California. They have a population of 10M compared to California's 40M. Their death rate is over 4 times higher, and they don't have nearly the population density we have. California has 251 people per square mile, Sweden 57. I don't know the details of what they are actually doing over there, but based on the numbers it's more of an example of what not to do.

Well, yeah. Sweden decided against bending the curve. Of course they are going to have more now, they went for a shorter, but more extreme period of infection. Rather than a less extreme, but prolonged period. I was discussing the healthcare system, which was not overwhelmed. Which was why we went for a lockdown. To not overhwlem the healthcare system.

I don't think that we are at 100% because there are still enough infections live that mixing of people could easily lead to an exponential increase in cases. That's going to look very different in a month if people abide by orders as both incubation and recovery usually max out at 14 days. I don't even think it needs to be a month, I'd say a couple more weeks is all it will take to really reduce risk.

There is always going to be enough infections living that will lead to exponential growth(though the summer will likely delay it until winter) until a vaccine is found. A couple of weeks will not change that.

 

[crassbonanza]

Who keeps spouting this stupid Sweden bullshit that’s causing people to believe it?

I see it popping up everywhere as if they are a shining beacon when they have one of the higher excess mortality rates going while as was pointed out above they have 1/4 the people as California in slightly more square miles.

STAHP.

Maybe you don't understand why people bring up Sweden then. They have a high excess mortality rate compared to California because they chose not to bend the curve. The reason they are brought up is that their healthcare system was not overwhelmed. Do you remember the curves? The reason we had a lockdown was to bend the curve, remember? They are going to be done with this relatively soon, with herd immunity predicted for Stockholm by June. Since we chose the lockdown we are going to be dealing with this for a much longer time.

If both ways have the same number of deaths related to covid, but 1 way destroys peoples livelihoods and endangers countless others for a longer period, which way do you choose?

 

[Bandit]

I thought the lockdown was to bend the curve, was it not? Now it is to "learn some concrete things"? Forget about the idiots who are asking for their constitutional rights if they bug you so much. Think about the people being directly and indirectly harmed by this continued lockdown. Realize that the continued lockdown is not a harm free decision.

Absolutely but without knowing much we have no idea if we have bent the curve enough or not. Maybe we’ve done 10x what’s necessary or maybe we haven’t done shit and opening back up will just make everything go nuclear. The point is without data we can trust, we don’t know.

 

[Bandit]

Maybe you don't understand why people bring up Sweden then. They have a high excess mortality rate compared to California because they chose not to bend the curve. The reason they are brought up is that their healthcare system was not overwhelmed. Do you remember the curves? The reason we had a lockdown was to bend the curve, remember? They are going to be done with this relatively soon, with herd immunity predicted for Stockholm by June. Since we chose the lockdown we are going to be dealing with this for a much longer time.

If both ways have the same number of deaths related to covid, but 1 way destroys peoples livelihoods and endangers countless others for a longer period, which way do you choose?

You CANNOT predict herd immunity if you don’t even know if you can catch the f***ing thing again or not.

 

[crassbonanza]

Absolutely but without knowing much we have no idea if we have bent the curve enough or not. Maybe we’ve done 10x what’s necessary or maybe we haven’t done shit and opening back up will just make everything go nuclear. The point is without data we can trust, we don’t know.

How many lives will you risk to make doubly sure? We know a massive worldwide recession is on the way, we know there is a serious famine that is on the way, we know that medical care is down over 60% since the lockdown. All of those things are going to kill people and the longer this lasts will only exacerbate it. Which is why we sold this as a means to just bend the curve, not to wait for more information. We did bend the curve, so much so that hospitals across the state have been laying off workers by the hundreds. I understood the reasoning behind the initial lockdown. I do not understand the reasoning behind our continued support of it and doubling down on it.

 

[crassbonanza]

You CANNOT predict herd immunity if you don’t even know if you can catch the f***ing thing again or not.

Haha, well then what is your plan? If herd immunity doesn't work, then neither will a vaccine. You want to lockdown forever then?

If you can get it again, then it is definitely time for us to just accept it as another in the multitude of risks we face on a daily basis.

We have no proof that it comes back and no reason to believe that it will. The only cases were from South Korea, and they clarified that there was remaining RNA that caused recovered patients to test positive. They were not infected again.

 

[Bandit]

How many lives will you risk to make doubly sure? We know a massive worldwide recession is on the way, we know there is a serious famine that is on the way, we know that medical care is down over 60% since the lockdown. All of those things are going to kill people and the longer this lasts will only exacerbate it. Which is why we sold this as a means to just bend the curve, not to wait for more information. We did bend the curve, so much so that hospitals across the state have been laying off workers by the hundreds. I understood the reasoning behind the initial lockdown. I do not understand the reasoning behind our continued support of it and doubling down on it.

How many lives will you risk exposing people to a virus that is actually known to kill lots of people and not just some hypothetical model of a recession?

 

[crassbonanza]

How many lives will you risk exposing people to a virus that is actually known to kill lots of people and not just some hypothetical model of a recession?

We know this disease kills predominately people over the age of 70 who have serious commodities. We can focus our effort and energy on protecting them. We know that people are not getting medical care that is going to directly lead to deaths with the prolonged lockdown. We know that hospitals are laying off 100's of employees, that is also going to cause issues. You can't just start things up magically with the snap of your finger. We know that in Denmark they began soft openings in mid April and have not shown a super spike in cases. We are sitting here terrified and causing more damage by the week, instead of adapting to the new information.

I understood the reasoning behind bending the curve. I did not expect us to try to wait the disease out, because that makes no sense at all.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I thought the lockdown was to bend the curve, was it not? Now it is to "learn some concrete things"? Forget about the idiots who are asking for their constitutional rights if they bug you so much. Think about the people being directly and indirectly harmed by this continued lockdown. Realize that the continued lockdown is not a harm free decision.

It was. And it was a success in stopping exponential growth. But it's not flattened. There's still the growth in deaths and cases, and the plan is when we've seen two weeks of NOT having that, we're going to start opening back up. Allegedly, of course.

I just downloaded the data and since I'm excel illiterate as far as putting together a neat chart with rolling averages, I'll just say it like this:

OC had deaths double every two weeks in april, from 11 on 4/1 to 21 on 4/14 to 42 on 4/28. Nearly 4x increase.

Riverside county even worse, from 11 to 54 to 142. nearly 13x increase.

San Bernardino, 5 to 31 to 85. 17x increase.

San Diego, 11 to 67 to 133. 12x increase.

LA, 66 to 360 to 1000. 15x increase.

Deaths are a lagging indicator for sure, but if that keeps going up instead of down...

I know everyone is going to fairly reach different conclusions here but if people are starting to get the sense we're out of the woods, we're not.

Data from California COVID-19 Hospital Data and Case Statistics - COVID 19 Cases - California Health and Human Services Open Data Portal

Edit: for me personally, I just feel like opening up right now is like, literally the dumbest time to do so. Should've either never done lockdown at all if this is the case, or wait another two weeks so we can see 1. if this stuff is going down 2. testing is more readily available (and hopefully tracing too) 3. treatments are more effective, especially remdesivir. I mean at least we don't have armed militias rushing the state house here like Michigan, I guess.

 

[Bandit]

Haha, well then what is your plan? If herd immunity doesn't work, then neither will a vaccine. You want to lockdown forever then?

If you can get it again, then it is definitely time for us to just accept it as another in the multitude of risks we face on a daily basis.

We have no proof that it comes back and no reason to believe that it will. The only cases were from South Korea, and they clarified that there was remaining RNA that caused recovered patients to test positive. They were not infected again.

My plan will become more coherent with some actual data that can be trusted.

It’s a pretty sad state that the average American can’t survive a couple months hanging out at home, either due to economics or simply due to being an overentitled whiny p***y. Maybe instead of directing our ire at dumb shit like “the media” we should be mad at the 1% for the massively disproportionate distribution of wealth in this country?

Uh-oh, socialism! I don’t really support that idea but honestly, how many BILLIONS do f***ers like Bezos, Gates, Anshutz, etc need while we have people starving?

 

[KINGS17]

Haha, well then what is your plan? If herd immunity doesn't work, then neither will a vaccine. You want to lockdown forever then?

If you can get it again, then it is definitely time for us to just accept it as another in the multitude of risks we face on a daily basis.

We have no proof that it comes back and no reason to believe that it will. The only cases were from South Korea, and they clarified that there was remaining RNA that caused recovered patients to test positive. They were not infected again.

Yes, this is true regarding the effectiveness of herd immunity and a vaccine. The whole point of a vaccine is to inject you with an inactive form of the virus so your immune system will create the antibodies required to fight the actual virus. If their are no antibodies which kill the COVID-19 virus, we are truly screwed, but I don't believe that is the case.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

How many lives will you risk exposing people to a virus that is actually known to kill lots of people and not just some hypothetical model of a recession?

I find the venn diagram of people who don't believe scientific projections but believe economic projections to be a near perfect circle, conveniently or inconveniently depending on your view.

But rich people don't care, Dow is setting records while unemployment balloons because instead of helping Joe Everyman we're money printing for dudes with 10 yachts. Total misappropriation of funds in the name of the dead trickle-down economics theory.

 

[jfont]

This

 

[Bandit]

Yes, this is true regarding the effectiveness of herd immunity and a vaccine. The whole point of a vaccine is to inject you with an inactive form of the virus so your immune system will create the antibodies required to fight the actual virus. If their are no antibodies which kill the COVID-19 virus, we are truly screwed, but I don't believe that is the case.

Very true, but we also don’t have a vaccine for the flu, we just have a shot. I hope the news is better than that ultimately for covid but it’s entirely possible that we just end up with a “covid shot” and that is the new normal.