General COVID-19 talk, NHL remains suspended MOD Warning post #1

[Raccoon Jesus]

Indeed

And like last time LA and OC would see the % drop that say the IE will. But places like Central CA and Arizona will see even higher % drops

I don't see the IE dropping at all. Too many starter homes and cheap investments here. Seller's market at low level, buyer's market at high level. There are some gorgeous million dollar homes here that have been sitting around for a year or more.

 

[Lt Dan]

I don't see the IE dropping at all. Too many starter homes and cheap investments here. Seller's market at low level, buyer's market at high level. There are some gorgeous million dollar homes here that have been sitting around for a year or more.

I should have been more specific . Not riverside, Ontario, Corona but more of the Moreno valley, Beaumont, yucaipa type areas

 

[KINGS17]

Yeah, I am pissed. I have a large 4 x 6 box for sale down on Grand and 11th Street right near the great $20 parking for Staples Center and it just isn't moving. Is $50,000 too much?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I should have been more specific . Not riverside, Ontario, Corona but more of the Moreno valley, Beaumont, yucaipa type areas

That's what I was referencing too actually. My neck of the hood!

Yeah, I am pissed. I have a large 4 x 6 box for sale down on Grand and 11th Street right near the great $20 parking for Staples Center and it just isn't moving. Is $50,000 too much?

If you can stake a claim to the land you can get 100x that!

 

[KINGS17]

That's what I was referencing too actually. My neck of the hood!




If you can stake a claim to the land you can get 100x that!

Unfortunately, I can't do that it's on property owned by the city and it's kind of a mobile home.

 

[BigKing]

Depends on what you mean by 'discount.'

Instead of double-digit year-over-year price appreciation (absurd), it's single-digit year-over-year (more normal) price appreciation.

When you see price drops on homes on market, those are typically ones that were priced ahead of the market using last year's numbers. I've seen a lot of appraisals reflect this, too.

In my area, stuff that's priced right is still gone in days, sometimes hours. Stuff that's not will sit for all eternity.

I definitely think there's gonna be slow growth or at least flat prices. But I think anyone holding out for more than a ~5% drop is gonna get caught holding the bag, especially in high demand areas, and even then, a half-percent increase in mortgage rate will offset any money 'saved' and will be a person paying off interest instead of principal.

Except for full-cash buyers, those are the folks getting punished most.

More accessible info: Will coronavirus drop Southern California home prices? – Orange County Register

But of course, I can't pretend to have a crystal ball. This shit is all weird. But what I've seen in the last two weeks especially is confidence as if nothing ever happened and each city selling 50 homes but only putting 20 on the market.

Yes, discount is used loosely when the home seems over priced to begin with. I'm just seeing a bit of a difference between those listed for a bit--that haven't done a reduction yet--and those newer listings.

This isn't a housing market problem though: those most impacted by this are generally non-home owners anyways.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Yes, discount is used loosely when the home seems over priced to begin with. I'm just seeing a bit of a difference between those listed for a bit--that haven't done a reduction yet--and those newer listings.

This isn't a housing market problem though: those most impacted by this are generally non-home owners anyways.

That I can definitely agree with and I've noticed it as well.

 

[Bandit]

Wait, are you serious? You do realize that elective surgeries are things like tumor removals and treatments for heart valves right? It is basically anything that is not immediate. Delaying those very much can kill you.
Coronavirus: California hospitals can resume most elective surgeries

They're called elective for a reason. Technically not going to my annual checkup on time can kill me, but it would be a stretch to say "missing your doctors appointment can kill you". I see who's liking your responses to me, there's risk in everything I thought? I guess that only applies to when we're talking about athletes performing like monkeys for our pleasure.

New York Mayor de Blasio says number of kids getting vaccinated is down more than 60%

Like I said, dumbasses. "Getting your child vaccinated is a reason to leave your home.” - de Blasio. I take this virus as seriously as anyone, but I wouldn't skip my kid's vaccines over it.

Because misinformation is what led us down this path. How many different potential deaths, different transmission possibilities and different symptoms have been thrown out there over the past few months? I mean, New Jersey and Colorado just dropped their Covid death total by 25% because they were classifying overdoses and accidents as Covid deaths, numbers don't even seem to mean anything anymore. The CDC really should have a solid grasp on things before throwing information out there.

If we were waiting for the CDC to have a solid grasp on the virus before doing anything they'd have been silent for the last three months and a lot more people would be dead. This isn't some shit you just punch a couple questions into your Apple IIe and 5 minutes later out comes the answer. We have doctors around the world working on the problem. They went to damn near a decade of school to do what they do, and they're having great difficulty solving this, yet every person with a dick and keyboard knows more than they do on the subject. It's a very weird time we live in where so many people think Google is a substitute for medical school. Not saying that's you, but they are out there en masse.

 

[KINGS17]

They're called elective for a reason. Technically not going to my annual checkup on time can kill me, but it would be a stretch to say "missing your doctors appointment can kill you". I see who's liking your responses to me, there's risk in everything I thought? I guess that only applies to when we're talking about athletes performing like monkeys for our pleasure.

Hey, go on pretending mammograms, colonoscopies, biopsies, etc. are the same as you missing your appointment with a doctor. Not getting your surgery for early stage cervical or prostate cancer can result in the cancer becoming metastatic. Doctors can't accurately assess how quickly a cancer is spreading to other organs or the blood marrow of a patient, so yes delaying an "elective" surgery can kill someone. It's hardly the same risk associated with young athletes (who are not at risk of death from COVID-19) playing a game in an empty stadium.

How to risk-stratify elective surgery during the COVID-19 pandemic?

Arguably, the potential fallout from inconsiderate elective surgery cancellations may have a more dramatic and immeasurable impact on the health of our communities than the morbidity and mortality inflicted by the novel coronavirus disease. For the sake of this discussion, it is imperative to understand that the term “elective “surgery does not mean optional surgery, and rather implies that a procedure is not immediately indicated in response to a limb- or life-threatening emergency. A current estimate suggests that more than 50% of all elective surgical cases have a potential to inflict significant harm on patients if cancelled or delayed [12].

 

[The Tikkanen]

Hey, go on pretending mammograms, colonoscopies, biopsies, etc. are the same as you missing your appointment with a doctor. Not getting your surgery for early stage cervical or prostate cancer can result in the cancer becoming metastatic. Doctors can't accurately assess how quickly a cancer is spreading to other organs or the blood marrow of a patient, so yes delaying an "elective" surgery can kill someone. It's hardly the same risk associated with young athletes (who are not at risk of death from COVID-19) playing a game in an empty stadium.

How to risk-stratify elective surgery during the COVID-19 pandemic?

Arguably, the potential fallout from inconsiderate elective surgery cancellations may have a more dramatic and immeasurable impact on the health of our communities than the morbidity and mortality inflicted by the novel coronavirus disease. For the sake of this discussion, it is imperative to understand that the term “elective “surgery does not mean optional surgery, and rather implies that a procedure is not immediately indicated in response to a limb- or life-threatening emergency. A current estimate suggests that more than 50% of all elective surgical cases have a potential to inflict significant harm on patients if cancelled or delayed [12].

I had brain surgery at the end of March, no visitors allowed which isn't a problem for me, one day in ICU and went home after that. The hospital was so empty it was a breeze. Got moved up to the first surgery of the day so didn't wake up having not eaten in over 12 hours. They did debate cancelling it but then the schedule opened up.

 

[KINGS17]

I had brain surgery at the end of March, no visitors allowed which isn't a problem for me, one day in ICU and went home after that. The hospital was so empty it was a breeze. Got moved up to the first surgery of the day so didn't wake up having not eaten in over 12 hours. They did debate cancelling it but then the schedule opened up.

Glad you got what you needed Tik. I can't imagine anything you might have scheduled as being "elective". Good luck and hang in there, man.

 

[crassbonanza]

They're called elective for a reason. Technically not going to my annual checkup on time can kill me, but it would be a stretch to say "missing your doctors appointment can kill you". I see who's liking your responses to me, there's risk in everything I thought? I guess that only applies to when we're talking about athletes performing like monkeys for our pleasure.

Elective just means that it will not kill you immediately. It is not getting tumors removed. It is not replacing heart valves. It is not performing biopsies. It will kill people. Look at these numbers from Britain: 'Herculean' number of cancer cases looming Here is another article: Cancer surgery delays risk 'thousands' of deaths

I feel like a lot of people believe that elective surgery is just a different word for cosmetic surgery when it couldn't be further from the case.

Like I said, dumbasses. "Getting your child vaccinated is a reason to leave your home.” - de Blasio. I take this virus as seriously as anyone, but I wouldn't skip my kid's vaccines over it.

When you put forth such extreme scare tactics about the virus you shouldn't be shocked when people are not getting care. The lockdown was largely put in place and maintained through fear.

If we were waiting for the CDC to have a solid grasp on the virus before doing anything they'd have been silent for the last three months and a lot more people would be dead.

We now know that the virus was here months before the lockdowns, so I don't know if that is really the case. Actually, the one thing they could have done that would have saved countless lives was to put forward the information about the high risk population. That was information that was widely available very early, that for some reason was neglected. Which is why the governors of NY, NJ, MI, CA all had orders for nursing homes to take in Covid patients.

This isn't some shit you just punch a couple questions into your Apple IIe and 5 minutes later out comes the answer. We have doctors around the world working on the problem. They went to damn near a decade of school to do what they do, and they're having great difficulty solving this, yet every person with a dick and keyboard knows more than they do on the subject. It's a very weird time we live in where so many people think Google is a substitute for medical school. Not saying that's you, but they are out there en masse.

The lockdown was not a consensus in the scientific community, in fact it was nowhere near one. We had never done something like this before, I mean the concept actually became a part of the government play book due to a 14 year old's science fair project during the Bush era(The Untold Story of the Birth of Social Distancing).

There were plenty of psychologists predicting things like this: Suicides on the rise amid stay-at-home order, Bay Area medical professionals say. How come no one listened to them? There were plenty of economists predicting things like this: Many Jobs May Vanish Forever as Layoffs Mount. How come no one listened to them?

This lockdown was a social experiment supported by the terrifying numbers that came from the Imperial model. It turns out that the model used bad numbers, numbers that were withdrawn from the scientific community, and the code used was a jumbled mess. In fact, it was the same code that predicted 200 million worldwide Avian flu deaths, with a best case scenario of 5 million.

We absolutely should be questioning such drastic measures and them continuing. This isn't something that was taught in medical school, there is no scientific consensus on the utility of the lockdown.

Most of my family are scientists, and I work in data analysis at a physics lab, so I am not anti science. I do accept that scientists know more than me about their specific field. However, even Dr. Fauci has made it clear many times that he can not account for the fallout created by the lockdown. That is not his expertise and he is not focused on it.

 

[Bandit]

Misinformation implies intent to deceive, and I just don’t think that’s what’s happening here. Also dead people don’t need jobs. People are gonna believe what they want. I’m over talking about it at this point. Be mad if it makes you feel bettter.

I also love all the expert opinions and statistics being thrown around while simultaneously harpooning the expert opinions and statistics that don’t fit the desired narrative. Good times.

 

[crassbonanza]

Misinformation implies intent to deceive, and I just don’t think that’s what’s happening here. Also dead people don’t need jobs. People are gonna believe what they want. I’m over talking about it at this point. Be mad if it makes you feel bettter.

I also love all the expert opinions and statistics being thrown around while simultaneously harpooning the expert opinions and statistics that don’t fit the desired narrative. Good times.

Yeah, I guess misinformation is the wrong word, I just think they jumped the gun on a number of occasions. The flipflopping on masks is a glaring one.

Speaking of the CDC, they just released updated numbers : Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) They are showing a best estimate CFR of .4% across the whole population. The IFR would be much lower, since we do know that the amount of asymptomatic cases are very high. The best estimate CFR for someone under the age of 50 is .05%. It's going to be hard to maintain any sort of lockdown with numbers like that, I'm actually shocked to see them published.

As for the skewering I only ripped on Fergusson. It's not like it is unfair to rip on him, he was just forced out of his position and likely won't be listened to again any time soon.

 

[KINGS17]

Misinformation implies intent to deceive, and I just don’t think that’s what’s happening here. Also dead people don’t need jobs. People are gonna believe what they want. I’m over talking about it at this point. Be mad if it makes you feel bettter.

I also love all the expert opinions and statistics being thrown around while simultaneously harpooning the expert opinions and statistics that don’t fit the desired narrative. Good times.

People are definitely going to be believe what they want, and be mad, or have confirmation bias. Being mad is irrelevant. Pointing out the illogical continuation of executive orders which have no basis in "data and science", which are causing damage to citizens and society, with non-violent protest makes perfect sense.

 

[KINGS17]

This is hardly a scientific survey, but gives you some idea of the sentiment among college football players. (1 = extremely worried, 5 = not worried at all)

Play or delay: College football players confidentially...

Soon, a return to campus will be behind them, but what happens this fall is still loaded with variables. Wednesday, Ohio State athletic director Gene Smith said Ohio Stadium could host between 22,000 and 50,000 fans for games, depending on the severity of social distancing guidelines.

But that could vary from state to state and conference to conference. And if fans can’t attend? Players were nearly split on whether they wanted to play games or delay the season until fans were allowed inside the stadium gates.

More than half of the players voted to delay the season in that scenario. Of the 45 respondents, 24 said they’d rather delay the season than play without fans.

 

[King'sPawn]

People are definitely going to be believe what they want, and be mad, or have confirmation bias. Being mad is irrelevant. Pointing out the illogical continuation of executive orders which have no basis in "data and science", which are causing damage to citizens and society, with non-violent protest makes perfect sense.

I think the problem isn't with halting elective surgeries, but how they are defined.

Anything where the malevolence has not been determined yet (tumors, organ function and health, etc) absolutely should not be put off or condidered elective.

And anything that is classified as treating something malevolent should not be considered elective.

Doesn't it make more sense to redefine elective surgeries than unnecessarily exposing and harming patients by reopening everything at the moment?

 

[Lt Dan]

I think the problem isn't with halting elective surgeries, but how they are defined.

Anything where the malevolence has not been determined yet (tumors, organ function and health, etc) absolutely should not be put off or condidered elective.

And anything that is classified as treating something malevolent should not be considered elective.

Doesn't it make more sense to redefine elective surgeries than unnecessarily exposing and harming patients by reopening everything at the moment?

I am not in the medical field, nor I have much understanding of it

I have heard that these surgeries are how hospitals make their money and that they tend to break end or lose a little money with the ER and ICU wards. Kinda like how restaurants break even on your main dish but make money on beverages, appetizers and desserts
Again, who knows the truth.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I'm not certain what to make of the 'elective surgeries' thing when I have friends that had everything from tumor removal to ACL surgery to broken bone setting with no wait. I know that's anecdotal but my experience isn't close to matching the "we weren't able to get to the hospital for our procedure" narrative.

I'm sure that's a very different look in NYC or even LA proper right now.

 

[KINGS17]

I'm not certain what to make of the 'elective surgeries' thing when I have friends that had everything from tumor removal to ACL surgery to broken bone setting with no wait. I know that's anecdotal but my experience isn't close to matching the "we weren't able to get to the hospital for our procedure" narrative.

I'm sure that's a very different look in NYC or even LA proper right now.

I know I am awaiting a procedure which has been delayed for six weeks. It's not immediately life threatening, but it needs to be done for my diagnosis. The GI lab I am going to has been limited to four hours of operating time per day. It is Loma Linda University's policy due to the government restrictions place on them. Given the median age of people who are actually dying from COVID-19, and the percentage of patients in nursing homes who are succumbing to the virus, I think it is time to fully reopen hospitals and medical labs.

@The Tikkanen gave an anecdotal account of how his critical surgery was almost postponed. It's time to stop playing this game, take proper precautions to protect those most at risk, and get on with life for the rest of us.

 

[yankeeking]

I know some are questioning why we have lost some of our liberties, been forced to accept practices we do not agree with , turned our world upset down and went from the best economy in decades if not ever to an unknown reality with business closing and jobs lost some for ever but please consider this , yesterday Columbia University posted a study that said that trump delayed too long and if he had closed the country even 1 week, that's 7 days , earlier he would have saved 30 ,000 lives , so if they had tried to preserve our rights to go to beach and other smartass things I could say and mostly agree with but we would have lost many many more souls , and before you say that's just another shot at the president and even if its partially right and its only 20k or 15k that's a lot of families and with the earlier transmission rate @ 1:1.5 conservatively it would be the pandemic we all feared was coming . IMO these are not infringements on our rights but temporary inconviences that are saving not only lives but medical bills for normally 20-30 day hospital stays , so if your young and get it you go broke and come out with possible lung, kidney or heart problems . I know its hard to see the overall picture especially when you cant prove what might have happened and are unsure if they over reacted to this but the fact that the whole world did that should help, I for one just thought it was another BS stunt by the liberals and their cronies on the news until they closed Milan and Venice those two provide 57% of the revenue for Italy , so hang in there brothers and sisters we can still stand tall and remember that what doesn't kill us makes us stronger

 

[The Tikkanen]

I know I am awaiting a procedure which has been delayed for six weeks. It's not immediately life threatening, but it needs to be done for my diagnosis. The GI lab I am going to has been limited to four hours of operating time per day. It is Loma Linda University's policy due to the government restrictions place on them. Given the median age of people who are actually dying from COVID-19, and the percentage of patients in nursing homes who are succumbing to the virus, I think it is time to fully reopen hospitals and medical labs.

@The Tikkanen gave an anecdotal account of how his critical surgery was almost postponed. It's time to stop playing this game, take proper precautions to protect those most at risk, and get on with life for the rest of us.

My surgery was almost delayed because it was tied to getting the tumor out of my head and onto a plane to Amsterdam to make a vaccine out of it. The airline was saying they weren't sure they could make it happen, I think they gave the OK 2 days before the surgery. Everything worked out OK, I have already received the injections (into my groin). Like I said though I am in and out of hospitals often and I haven't seen any evidence of a pandemic. It actually seems quite peaceful, easy to park, no crowds, I walk in and walk out. But I live in orange County.

 

[King'sPawn]

I know I am awaiting a procedure which has been delayed for six weeks. It's not immediately life threatening, but it needs to be done for my diagnosis. The GI lab I am going to has been limited to four hours of operating time per day. It is Loma Linda University's policy due to the government restrictions place on them. Given the median age of people who are actually dying from COVID-19, and the percentage of patients in nursing homes who are succumbing to the virus, I think it is time to fully reopen hospitals and medical labs.

@The Tikkanen gave an anecdotal account of how his critical surgery was almost postponed. It's time to stop playing this game, take proper precautions to protect those most at risk, and get on with life for the rest of us.

I'm truly sorry your surgery was delayed. I honestly think they need to reevaluate "elective/non-critical" surgery if you have a condition which must be addressed. Delays like that aren't acceptable.

Like RJ though, my personal anecdotes have been different. Someone I know is getting immediate treatment for heart failure and another person had a cardiac procedure to address seizures.

That's not to say I doubt you. I've just had different personal experiences. From what it sounds like, this is something which should not be delayed.

I hope you remain safe and well until the procedure. We're here for you dude!

 

[Lt Dan]

6 deaths in OC today. 5 from SNFs

Wow

 

[KINGS17]

I'm truly sorry your surgery was delayed. I honestly think they need to reevaluate "elective/non-critical" surgery if you have a condition which must be addressed. Delays like that aren't acceptable.

Like RJ though, my personal anecdotes have been different. Someone I know is getting immediate treatment for heart failure and another person had a cardiac procedure to address seizures.

That's not to say I doubt you. I've just had different personal experiences. From what it sounds like, this is something which should not be delayed.

I hope you remain safe and well until the procedure. We're here for you dude!

I appreciate your well wishes. It's just something which needs to get done. Could be something serious, could be something not so serious, but something is not quite right and I need to get an accurate diagnosis.