General COVID-19 Talk #4 MOD Warning

[Lt Dan]

Yesterday/ this weekend's numbers

223 new cases per day

Hosp and ICU down big over the weekend

Hosp 283--->242
ICU 76----->62

 

[DoktorJeep]

Can we go back to just updates from LT Dan pls? I’d rather take my chances drinking lead tainted water than expose myself to additional mouth breathing opinions.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

I defend the Doctors and researchers, not the executives charging $100 for a $5 bottle of insulin. Literally every medication has a laundry list of potential side effects. 80% of a commercial advertising a drug is listing all the shit that can go wrong with it. The question is does the risk outweigh the benefit. I don't think it would be in pharma's best interest to be pushing the entire world to get something if it was going to kill us. I mean killing off your consumers doesn't exactly seem like a winning strategy, does it?


I mean f***...

HUMIRA can cause serious side effects, including:

• Serious infections. These include TB and infections caused by viruses, fungi, or bacteria. Symptoms related to TB include a cough, low-grade fever, weight loss, or loss of body fat and muscle.
• Hepatitis B infection in carriers of the virus. Symptoms include muscle aches, feeling very tired, dark urine, skin or eyes that look yellow, little or no appetite, vomiting, clay-colored bowel movements, fever, chills, stomach discomfort, and skin rash.
• Allergic reactions. Symptoms of a serious allergic reaction include hives, trouble breathing, and swelling of your face, eyes, lips, or mouth.
• Nervous system problems. Signs and symptoms include numbness or tingling, problems with your vision, weakness in your arms or legs, and dizziness.
• Blood problems (decreased blood cells that help fight infections or stop bleeding). Symptoms include a fever that does not go away, bruising or bleeding very easily, or looking very pale.
• Heart failure (new or worsening). Symptoms include shortness of breath, swelling of your ankles or feet, and sudden weight gain.
• Immune reactions including a lupus-like syndrome. Symptoms include chest discomfort or pain that does not go away, shortness of breath, joint pain, or rash on your cheeks or arms that gets worse in the sun.
• Liver problems. Symptoms include feeling very tired, skin or eyes that look yellow, poor appetite or vomiting, and pain on the right side of your stomach (abdomen). These problems can lead to liver failure and death.
• Psoriasis (new or worsening). Symptoms include red scaly patches or raised bumps that are filled with pus.

Might as well say "Anyone who has breathed oxygen may die from taking Humira."

Oh, I’m very pro-vax. Don’t worry. Just poking fun at the people who defended for profit healthcare for decades, and are now suddenly worried about all the profit incentives behind vaccination.

 

[DrHansReinhardt]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...accine-mandate-healthcare-workers/5905931001/

 

[Bandit]

Oh, I’m very pro-vax. Don’t worry. Just poking fun at the people who defended for profit healthcare for decades, and are now suddenly worried about all the profit incentives behind vaccination.

All good, I didn't mean to seem like I was coming off harsh toward you. For profit healthcare in this country is broken as f***. When my dad died in June, I learned that he was paying over $600 a month for medicare. It was only like $100 less than his mortgage. It's criminal.

 

[Lt Dan]

i can't remember the last time new cases were this low, but it is Tuesday and I also drink a lot

Hosp down big again today 242----->230
ICU down from 62

 

[Rusty Batch]

Just as a favor, if you post interviews and quote comments, would you be able to provide the link as well so no one has to go researching it? They are numerous interviews over the course of the pandemic. I always give you guys my info on where I get it from and cite it or will get it if asked, but just wanted to make sure the info goes both ways.

As always, I disagree but hope you have a good day . Take care!

Dr. Sanjay Gupta (@drsanjaygupta) Tweeted:
@andersoncooper and I spoke with Dr. Fauci tonight. He tells us how he thinks @Potus plans could have gone further and that we need to better understand the durability of protection from natural infection. https://t.co/I7PcPUo35s


You can watch the interview right there is you'd like. Fast-forward to 2:20 for the part I quoted.

 

[Dooney]

RJ you asked what I believed in and I very nicely stated it. Yet I was censored for it? There was absolutely nothing wrong with my last post stating what I care about.
If I don’t agree with all of you then I just get deleted. Is a mod warning next? Just curious….

 

[kingsboy11]

RJ you asked what I believed in and I very nicely stated it. Yet I was censored for it? There was absolutely nothing wrong with my last post stating what I care about.
If I don’t agree with all of you then I just get deleted. Is a mod warning next? Just curious….

Neither RJ nor I deleted your post, nor have we deleted any of your posts since you started participating in this thread. If you have an issue you can take it up with one of the global mods.

 

[Jason Squirties]

Neither RJ nor I deleted your post, nor have we deleted any of your posts since you started participating in this thread. If you have an issue you can take it up with one of the global mods.

Tag them ITT please as to avoid any further warnings.

 

[Dooney]

Neither RJ nor I deleted your post, nor have we deleted any of your posts since you started participating in this thread. If you have an issue you can take it up with one of the global mods.

Thank you and I appreciate that. I have no idea why they would have found offense in my post and deleted it and not have had the courtesy to say who they were in that case! Kinda chicken (blank) to me, as I have no one to state my case to.

 

[Master Yoda]

You're being disingenuous in some of these posts.

No one is saying COVID will "disappear". We're saying the vaccine will stop people from dying from it. Now, before you post an article about someone in some country dying who was already vaccinated, please understand that I'm using that in a general sense. 700k people have died from COVID, I'm betting if you remove the vaccinated who died from it the number would be very similar still.

"It's only this deadly" or "It's only 2x more deadly" is also such a ridiculous statement to be making. If it happens to your child, it was 100% deadly. It's not a number. There are children that are dying from this every day and, if there is a way to almost completely remove that from happening, you do it. Same goes for the adults. You asked a question regarding getting your kid vaccinated or not and if they should be refused treatment if you didn't get them vaccinated. It was a hypothetical. Now you're using a real situation to change the discussion to "it's not that dangerous".

But, if you want to do comparative numbers, there were only 3600 car deaths in CA last year. That's 5% of the amount of people who died from COVID last year. Seems pretty safe to not put your kids in a seatbelt then. Or yourself. I would also argue that a parent who didn't put a seatbelt on their child while they were driving was endangering their life. It's not about how deadly or dangerous something is according to statistics. It's about ignoring available safety measures and actively putting your child in harms way.

Vaccines are preventative measures taken to save lives and help get rid of something as much as reasonably possible. Just like seatbelts. Just like airbags. Just like every other vaccine that we take that has barely been questioned at all. If there was 100% vaccinated, you would see a SHARP decrease in cases of COVID and virtually zero deaths. Get the vaccine people. The knots people are tying themselves in to avoid it is getting silly. There is no reasonable reason to not get it. The only folks fighting it are, as I said, politically motivated. It's not based in anything related to science. There's a reason you're seeing a densely packed state like CA have better numbers than a sparsely populated state like North Dakota.

Yeah I did kind of change the discussion because you said I'm endangering my kids lives if I don't get them vaccinated. Or maybe you were making a general statement.

Either way, I'm not ignoring available safety measures nor am I actively putting them in harms way.
My kids mask indoors and wash hands frequently. I would most definitely seek treatment for my child if they got very sick with COVID, flu, or with anything else for that matter.
But the likelihood of children getting severely ill from COVID are extremely low, like comparable to the flu level low. That's why I brought up the flu numbers.
I'm just not that worried about my kids getting sick and dying from the flu either.
(Seeing some older posts make me think somebody might quote this and say "Herman Cain award recipient". Making jokes about people dying aren't really funny.)
I'm using numbers/stats to assess how much risk there is and make decisions based on that. People do that everyday, knowingly and unknowingly.

I have no doubt that vaccines work very well to prevent serious illnesses and deaths. That's why I got it.
Do I think it will work on children? Probably. At least in terms of preventing COVID deaths.
Do I want to take any unknown risks associated with a new(ish) vaccine? No.
Are the unknown risks worth taking to reduce the COVID death rate in minors from 0.009% to 0.001%(just throwing out a random number less than 0.009%)? Maybe not until the unknown risks become more known. Or if the 0.009% changes and actually becomes something significantly higher. (0.009% comes from this up to date report)
https://www.aap.org/en/pages/2019-n...hildren-and-covid-19-state-level-data-report/

It's about risk assessment and has nothing to do with politics or who's in the White House. Well, not for me anyways.
Okay back to Lt Dan and the numbers. No more posts from me on this thread for a week.

 

[KINGS17]

Dr. Sanjay Gupta (@drsanjaygupta) Tweeted:
@andersoncooper and I spoke with Dr. Fauci tonight. He tells us how he thinks @Potus plans could have gone further and that we need to better understand the durability of protection from natural infection. https://t.co/I7PcPUo35s


You can watch the interview right there is you'd like. Fast-forward to 2:20 for the part I quoted.

It can't be that difficult to determine the durability of a natural immune system response. Run antibody tests on people who infected at various times along the way.

Perhaps more important than antibodies is the memory T cells created in a person infected with the virus. I am not sure how you would determine the durability and effectiveness of the memory T cells.

In any case, people who have been infected, do have a case for not taking the vaccine and claiming they are equally protected from the virus as someone who has been fully vaccinated.

It would be interesting to see the numbers on people who have been re-infected, and the severity of their second case, versus those who have been vaccinated and experienced a break through case.

 

[KINGS17]

Yeah I did kind of change the discussion because you said I'm endangering my kids lives if I don't get them vaccinated. Or maybe you were making a general statement.

Either way, I'm not ignoring available safety measures nor am I actively putting them in harms way.
My kids mask indoors and wash hands frequently. I would most definitely seek treatment for my child if they got very sick with COVID, flu, or with anything else for that matter.
But the likelihood of children getting severely ill from COVID are extremely low, like comparable to the flu level low. That's why I brought up the flu numbers.
I'm just not that worried about my kids getting sick and dying from the flu either.
(Seeing some older posts make me think somebody might quote this and say "Herman Cain award recipient". Making jokes about people dying aren't really funny.)
I'm using numbers/stats to assess how much risk there is and make decisions based on that. People do that everyday, knowingly and unknowingly.

I have no doubt that vaccines work very well to prevent serious illnesses and deaths. That's why I got it.
Do I think it will work on children? Probably. At least in terms of preventing COVID deaths.
Do I want to take any unknown risks associated with a new(ish) vaccine? No.
Are the unknown risks worth taking to reduce the COVID death rate in minors from 0.009% to 0.001%(just throwing out a random number less than 0.009%)? Maybe not until the unknown risks become more known. Or if the 0.009% changes and actually becomes something significantly higher. (0.009% comes from this up to date report)
https://www.aap.org/en/pages/2019-n...hildren-and-covid-19-state-level-data-report/

It's about risk assessment and has nothing to do with politics or who's in the White House. Well, not for me anyways.
Okay back to Lt Dan and the numbers. No more posts from me on this thread for a week.

Yeah, the guy with the "Herman Cain Award" joke should be given a one-way ticket to South Korea to participate in a game of red light/green light.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

View attachment 468325

i can't remember the last time new cases were this low, but it is Tuesday and I also drink a lot

Hosp down big again today 242----->230
ICU down from 62

As goes California, so goes Nevada. Been like that the whole pandemic. We’re also on a big downswing in all the critical statistics.

Still really worried about winter, though.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

It can't be that difficult to determine the durability of a natural immune system response. Run antibody tests on people who infected at various times along the way.

Perhaps more important than antibodies is the memory T cells created in a person infected with the virus. I am not sure how you would determine the durability and effectiveness of the memory T cells.

In any case, people who have been infected, do have a case for not taking the vaccine and claiming they are equally protected from the virus as someone who has been fully vaccinated.

It would be interesting to see the numbers on people who have been re-infected, and the severity of their second case, versus those who have been vaccinated and experienced a break through case.

The best way to determine long term T-cell memory are long term retrospective studies. Basically just follow people around for ten years, and see if they got reinfected. We unfortunately won’t know the long term Covid data for stuff like this until at the soonest 2030.

 

[Lt Dan]

As goes California, so goes Nevada. Been like that the whole pandemic. We’re also on a big downswing in all the critical statistics.

Still really worried about winter, though.

Indeed

The winter will show us exactly how much the vaccines help and exactly how much herd immunity we have or don't have. I figure we have about 30-45 days until the next wave

 

[KingLB]

Indeed

The winter will show us exactly how much the vaccines help and exactly how much herd immunity we have or don't have. I figure we have about 30-45 days until the next wave

Im wondering if we don’t see mask mandates kept through the winter for that very reason. Obviously the numbers look good now, but do they just decide, meh leave the mandate and try and get in front of the potential “winter wave”?

 

[Lt Dan]

Im wondering if we don’t see mask mandates kept through the winter for that very reason. Obviously the numbers look good now, but do they just decide, meh leave the mandate and try and get in front of the potential “winter wave”?

That is a hell of a question.

(Not getting political here)
Some say that the recall election may have prevented a statewide mask mandate this summer and that was why some counties had them at a county level.
With a potentially worse wave and no political consequences, I would say that one is a sure thing if there is a repeat of last winter

 

[Lt Dan]

Los Angeles poised to enact strict vaccination mandate

LOS ANGELES (AP) — Los Angeles leaders on Wednesday were poised to enact one of the nation’s strictest vaccine mandates — a sweeping measure that would require the shots for everyone entering a bar, restaurant, nail salon, gym or even a Lakers game.
The City Council was scheduled to consider the proposal after postponing a vote last week to deal with concerns ranging from who could be fined for violations to whether employees could end up in fist-fights when they have to serve as vaccine door monitors.
Some critics charge that a mandate would amount to segregation of those who cannot or refuse to be vaccinated. Others call it unenforceable.

Business trade groups have said the city mandate will sow confusion because Los Angeles County’s own vaccine rules — which apply both in LA and in surrounding communities — are less sweeping.
However, council members generally support the ordinance, which is intended to reduce the risk of new COVID-19 surges. The nation’s second-most populous city faced a huge rise in infections and hospitalizations last winter and a smaller surge this summer linked to the spread of the highly contagious delta variant.

 

[MBH]

All good, I didn't mean to seem like I was coming off harsh toward you. For profit healthcare in this country is broken as f***. When my dad died in June, I learned that he was paying over $600 a month for medicare. It was only like $100 less than his mortgage. It's criminal.

We pay $780 a month for Obamacare.
Husband/Wife.
Mostly doesn't kick in until we spend $6000 out of pocket.
If I spend $6000 (only happened once), that doesn't count towards any care my wife receives. She needs to spend $6000, too, before it kicks in for her.

 

[MBH]

That is a hell of a question.

(Not getting political here)
Some say that the recall election may have prevented a statewide mask mandate this summer and that was why some counties had them at a county level.
With a potentially worse wave and no political consequences, I would say that one is a sure thing if there is a repeat of last winter

Shouldn't the vaccines and past infections take some of the head off?

 

[Papa Mocha 15]

Dr. Sanjay Gupta (@drsanjaygupta) Tweeted:
@andersoncooper and I spoke with Dr. Fauci tonight. He tells us how he thinks @Potus plans could have gone further and that we need to better understand the durability of protection from natural infection. https://t.co/I7PcPUo35s


You can watch the interview right there is you'd like. Fast-forward to 2:20 for the part I quoted.

Thanks, that helps. So even Fauci admits that we don't know how long natural immunity lasts for and that's the key piece. Also, note that it may vary from person to person because this has not been studied. And this is to anyone really, not directed to just you. But if you're a public health official making the decision and you have to decide what's safest for everyone to create an environment where people can earn a living and not get sick, do you go with the data that is not peer reviewed and we don't know how long natural immunity lasts for nor how it will affect each individual who was infected and roll back vaccine mandates? If you were the ultimate decision maker, knowing you have immune compromised people in the cross fire, vaccinated for whom the vaccine has not worked as well, who might not make it out of this if you have break outs. You would have to go to sleep every night with this decision knowing that people may have been killed by your decision, do you feel the burden of proof has been met to definitively say that there is enough info out there to roll back vaccine mandates for those previously infected and give them an exemption? Knowing full well that people lie and will lie about being previously infected to avoid the shot and that the same study shows that the level of immunity was significantly increased with both natural immunity and the vaccine combined? How would one reconcile this? Is the data by itself enough to get this country through this pandemic and onto the next phase? Or is it enough now to say that we should keep the vaccine mandates in place until we have more peer reviewed information? Keep in mind that study did not touch on Americans, but only those isolated in one region of the world, with a different set of genetics, physical environment, did not account for the same commorbidites here, Higher instances of hypertension, diabetes and obesity where the consequences will be exacerbated? Did that study meet the burden of proof if you worked in public health and had the final say when so much info out there is suggesting that natural immunity plus vaccine is much stronger? If so, why? How would you reconcile it for the rest of America who is afraid to go back to work? Keep in mind, there are a large number of people who are not following precautions at all and won't.

It's a tough question, I don't have the answer except to keep the course for now until better data presents itself and is confirmed by going through the peer review process where everything is validated and studied further. I think future waves will slow this economy even more if not properly checked with the mandate at this time.

 

[Lt Dan]

Shouldn't the vaccines and past infections take some of the head off?

That is the hope and I think that is the one thing everyone can agree with since this pandemic started...

but we also thought this back in June and this summer was far deadlier than I think anything thought.

A big variable this summer though was a total lack of lockdowns and very limited mandates nationwide.
If history repeats itself , this winter could theoretically be much worse.
Obviously none of us hope for this nor have a crystal ball.

 

[KINGS17]

We pay $780 a month for Obamacare.
Husband/Wife.
Mostly doesn't kick in until we spend $6000 out of pocket.
If I spend $6000 (only happened once), that doesn't count towards any care my wife receives. She needs to spend $6000, too, before it kicks in for her.

You're probably rich and can afford it.