General COVID-19 Talk #4 MOD Warning

[Dooney]

Project Veritas and the fourth video with Pfizer scientists just can’t be ignored. I am sorry but I just can’t drink the kool-aid.

 

[KingLB]

Project Veritas and the fourth video with Pfizer scientists just can’t be ignored. I am sorry but I just can’t drink the kool-aid.

Thing is, you already. Just using the off brand that was cut with fentanyl…

 

[Dooney]

Chicken Pox vaccine has been mandated in CA since 2001 and in every state in the US since 2015. Varicella Vaccine Mandates for Child Care and K-12

Hep B since 2014. State Mandates on Immunization and Vaccine-Preventable Diseases: Hepatitis B

Please stop spreading disinformation.

Well for peds I was wrong. Shoot me, haven’t worked peds in over 40 years and my own kids are 30 and 40 so this never applied to them.

 

[idlehnds]

Project Veritas and the fourth video with Pfizer scientists just can’t be ignored. I am sorry but I just can’t drink the kool-aid.

They just happen to find scientists that expose them? This is a super right wing group that also said the election is rigged. All of this stuff is getting so annoying. The biggest problem is we have two sides and its like each side trys to find the new grievence. If its not vaccines, it election fraud, if its not a presidents tax return its something else. Its like, whats the new problem to always dig into. Sorry but this is all just so frustrating at this point.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Project Veritas and the fourth video with Pfizer scientists just can’t be ignored. I am sorry but I just can’t drink the kool-aid.

You're reasonable enough and I appreciate your views so let me ask you--why believe this evidence to the exclusion of all other evidence?

 

[Rusty Batch]

You're reasonable enough and I appreciate your views so let me ask you--why believe this evidence to the exclusion of all other evidence?

I watched part of the video and it seemed like the main discussion point was about natural immunity being effective. Not sure if that is what you are referencing when you say "to the exclusion of all other evidence."

If so I am confused about what has happened that people actually believe that natural immunity is not incredibly effective. And to believe "all other evidence" points against this is somewhat of a wild position to take.

It is perfectly logical to suggest that people who have not had covid should get the vaccine as that is safer than obtaining protection from getting infected.

But if someone like myself who has already had covid (before the vaccine was even available) to continue with this narrative that is being shoved down our throats suggesting that there is zero evidence supporting natural immunity as providing excellent protection is just completely incorrect. Even Faucci who's become the chief scientist in charge of pushing the vaccine won't make claims as agressive as that. In fact he was asked this a couple weeks ago here is his response:

He continued to say: “So, as we talk about vaccine mandates, I get calls all the time, people say ‘I’ve already had COVID, I’m protected.’ And now the study says maybe even more protected than the vaccine alone. Should they also get the vaccine? How do you make the case to them?”
Fauci responded: “You know, that’s a really good point Sanjay. I don’t have a really firm answer for you on that. That’s something that we’re going to have to discuss regarding the durability of the response. The one thing the paper from Israel didn’t tell you is whether or not as high as the protection is with natural infection, what’s the durability compared to the durability of the vaccine.”
“So it is conceivable that you got infected, you’re protected, but you may not be protected for an indefinite amount of time,” Fauci said. “So, I think that is something that we need to sit down and discuss seriously because you very appropriately pointed out, it is an issue and there could be an argument saying what you said.”


There is certainly an incredibly strong amount of pressure to paint vaccination as the only effective protection. But there is a tremendous amount of evidence both in relation to Covid and a long history of other viruses that Natural immunity is effective.

 

[Fishhead]

hep b and chicken pox aka shingles are not mandated vaccines. Nor is flu or pneumonia.

Covid is actually a money maker for big pharma and hospitals. Pharma stock has skyrocketed and they are going to follow the money. The hospitals are finally seeing cash flow is federal dollars for every covid related diagnosis they can come up with. It has helped mitigate the horrible contacts they have lost money on with CMS and insurance companies. This I know because it IS my business to know.

I didn't mention flu and pneumonia of course, but everything else on that list is mandated. Some for 5 years or so, others since the '60s and 70's. Mandates were never a problem until COVID and the age of disinformation.

COVID is absolutely a moneymaker for big pharma and healthcare, but I think the biggest misconception is that they are getting rich off the vaccines. While there is a tidy profit, it pales in comparison to the amount of money they could make if they didn't make vaccines. Preventatives are always far cheaper than treatments. I used to work in big pharma, which I got out of as I had some very favorable options that matured and it was no longer worth it to stay. It's not a fun industry to work in for sure. I was in business dev. before I got out, and one of the things we always looked at was therapeutics that there were few or no preventative treatments for. We looked into vaccines, but the margins just aren't there for the amount of R&D involved, and the only reason Pfizer and J&J took it on was the immense government funding. If it wasn't for that, no way do they take them on. The big money is in common treatments that are recurring, for example, we made a crapload of money on an enoxaparin biosimilar we got approval for. People are always going to have DVT's, PE's, and other clots. There aren't any vaccines for those.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I watched part of the video and it seemed like the main discussion point was about natural immunity being effective. Not sure if that is what you are referencing when you say "to the exclusion of all other evidence."

If so I am confused about what has happened that people actually believe that natural immunity is not incredibly effective. And to believe "all other evidence" points against this is somewhat of a wild position to take.

It is perfectly logical to suggest that people who have not had covid should get the vaccine as that is safer than obtaining protection from getting infected.

But if someone like myself who has already had covid (before the vaccine was even available) to continue with this narrative that is being shoved down our throats suggesting that there is zero evidence supporting natural immunity as providing excellent protection is just completely incorrect. Even Faucci who's become the chief scientist in charge of pushing the vaccine won't make claims as agressive as that. In fact he was asked this a couple weeks ago here is his response:

He continued to say: “So, as we talk about vaccine mandates, I get calls all the time, people say ‘I’ve already had COVID, I’m protected.’ And now the study says maybe even more protected than the vaccine alone. Should they also get the vaccine? How do you make the case to them?”
Fauci responded: “You know, that’s a really good point Sanjay. I don’t have a really firm answer for you on that. That’s something that we’re going to have to discuss regarding the durability of the response. The one thing the paper from Israel didn’t tell you is whether or not as high as the protection is with natural infection, what’s the durability compared to the durability of the vaccine.”
“So it is conceivable that you got infected, you’re protected, but you may not be protected for an indefinite amount of time,” Fauci said. “So, I think that is something that we need to sit down and discuss seriously because you very appropriately pointed out, it is an issue and there could be an argument saying what you said.”


There is certainly an incredibly strong amount of pressure to paint vaccination as the only effective protection. But there is a tremendous amount of evidence both in relation to Covid and a long history of other viruses that Natural immunity is effective.

That's...not at all the suggestion at all. It's masked as that. The entire series is anti-vax as a whole--not pro-"if you've been sick don't get vacc'ed".

This is the twisted logic I cannot wrap my head around--that it's safer to actually get covid than to prevent it. I'm sorry, but not sorry, that is f***ing braindead.

What you've suggested in the past and in your post is different, you've had it, why get vaccinated, why not get confirmation that you have antibodies. I can board that train, even if I disagree to some extent, it's reasonable and supportable. But catching Covid isn't much of a strategy to defend against covid. God I feel like I'm taking crazy pills having to f***ing type that out.

 

[Fishhead]

There is certainly an incredibly strong amount of pressure to paint vaccination as the only effective protection. But there is a tremendous amount of evidence both in relation to Covid and a long history of other viruses that Natural immunity is effective.

Natural immunity is absolutely effective, but its true effectiveness is unknown and varies depending on circumstances. For example, if you have been infected in the last 5 months, I would assume your natural immunity is going to be equal to, if not surpassing the immunity granted by a vaccine. If you were infected before that, that assumption would be invalid. If one was infected prior to vaccines, their natural immunity may or may not protect them against delta because the reason viruses mutate is to beat the immunities they are confronted with. The delta variant first appeared in late 2020, which was before vaccines were even rolled out in India, and when they were first starting here. What that means is that the delta mutation was in response to natural immunity not vaccinated immunity, so who knows how good the protection is for someone who had epsilon.

Another reason not to rely on natural immunity that is not recent is that you can test the efficacy of a vaccine against a new strain (such as delta), but you cannot test natural immunity response vs other strains. It varies too much between individuals.

Had COVID since April? You are probably good to go for a bit yet. Had it in 2019 or 2020? Total crapshoot and you should get the jab. It's quite important that this thing gets minimized before another major variant shows up, because that variant might mutate to bypass vaccine inducted immunity, and if it does that things will get much, much worse.

 

[Rusty Batch]

That's...not at all the suggestion at all. It's masked as that. The entire series is anti-vax as a whole--not pro-"if you've been sick don't get vacc'ed".

This is the twisted logic I cannot wrap my head around--that it's safer to actually get covid than to prevent it. I'm sorry, but not sorry, that is f***ing braindead.

What you've suggested in the past and in your post is different, you've had it, why get vaccinated, why not get confirmation that you have antibodies. I can board that train, even if I disagree to some extent, it's reasonable and supportable. But catching Covid isn't much of a strategy to defend against covid. God I feel like I'm taking crazy pills having to f***ing type that out.

You didn't have to type that out lol. I said it is a perfectly logical position to take re-read what I said, your entire post was unnecessary.

My post was about natural immunity being very effective protection (which seemed to be the primary point of the video) and the reason I quoted you is because you seemed to say all evidence points to that not being the case. Now maybe you were talking about other parts of the video that I didn't get to. But the gist of it seemed to be scientists saying that Natural Immunity was highly effective against covid and likely even more so than the vaccine. People can argue over whether or not it's better or worse. But there is a long history of evidence supporting the general sentiment that Natural Immunity is highly protective.

 

[Rusty Batch]

Natural immunity is absolutely effective, but its true effectiveness is unknown and varies depending on circumstances. For example, if you have been infected in the last 5 months, I would assume your natural immunity is going to be equal to, if not surpassing the immunity granted by a vaccine. If you were infected before that, that assumption would be invalid. If one was infected prior to vaccines, their natural immunity may or may not protect them against delta because the reason viruses mutate is to beat the immunities they are confronted with. The delta variant first appeared in late 2020, which was before vaccines were even rolled out in India, and when they were first starting here. What that means is that the delta mutation was in response to natural immunity not vaccinated immunity, so who knows how good the protection is for someone who had epsilon.

Another reason not to rely on natural immunity that is not recent is that you can test the efficacy of a vaccine against a new strain (such as delta), but you cannot test natural immunity response vs other strains. It varies too much between individuals.

Had COVID since April? You are probably good to go for a bit yet. Had it in 2019 or 2020? Total crapshoot and you should get the jab. It's quite important that this thing gets minimized before another major variant shows up, because that variant might mutate to bypass vaccine inducted immunity, and if it does that things will get much, much worse.

There is a lot of data right now saying the opposite is true. The Israeli study shoot even that OK study both showed the vaccine effectiveness dropping off more rapidly than Natural Immunity.

 

[Fishhead]

There is a lot of data right now saying the opposite is true. The Israeli study shoot even that OK study both showed the vaccine effectiveness dropping off more rapidly than Natural Immunity.

I wouldn't say a lot of data, almost everyone is referencing that single study from Israel. The large majority of studies say the opposite is true right now. This will evolve over time, of course.

 

[Dooney]

Look they are going to release more information. James O Keefe has had many things retracted. There is also data coming out of India that ivermectin along with I think doxycycline vitamin c and zinc taken for 10 days has wiped out covid the delta variant where they were in serious trouble with it. Now they see on a bad day one or two cases. It’s been all over Twitter the past few days.

These drugs we are using are causing severe heart problems, myocarditis, heart failure, blood clots in healthy people. The companies know it.

 

[SmytheKing]

I'm endangering the life of my kid? Talk about overreacting.
My kids are getting in-person learning. Are their lives in danger now?

A total of 478 kids under the age of 18 have died from COVID. (from 5 million confirmed cases)
During the 2019-2020 flu season, 434 kids under the age of 18 died from the flu. (from 12.5 million symptomatic illnesses)
Am I endangering the life of my kid if I don't get them flu shots?

I'm not arguing COVID isn't much worse than the flu, but for children, it's only about 2~2.5 times as more deadly (according to theses numbers), and that's over a longer period.
It's certainly not nothing, and I'd rather not have my kids be subjected to the increased risk, but then again my kids got flu shots last year for the first time in years.

There's not even a vaccine yet for kids their age so I guess it's hard to give a definite answer, but maybe eventually.
But a lot of experts have said from the beginning that in the long-run, COVID will become something like a seasonal flu.
I think people thinking COVID will disappear when vaccination rate hits close to 100% will be disappointed, unless they develop a vaccine that completely prevents infection.

You're being disingenuous in some of these posts.

No one is saying COVID will "disappear". We're saying the vaccine will stop people from dying from it. Now, before you post an article about someone in some country dying who was already vaccinated, please understand that I'm using that in a general sense. 700k people have died from COVID, I'm betting if you remove the vaccinated who died from it the number would be very similar still.

"It's only this deadly" or "It's only 2x more deadly" is also such a ridiculous statement to be making. If it happens to your child, it was 100% deadly. It's not a number. There are children that are dying from this every day and, if there is a way to almost completely remove that from happening, you do it. Same goes for the adults. You asked a question regarding getting your kid vaccinated or not and if they should be refused treatment if you didn't get them vaccinated. It was a hypothetical. Now you're using a real situation to change the discussion to "it's not that dangerous".

But, if you want to do comparative numbers, there were only 3600 car deaths in CA last year. That's 5% of the amount of people who died from COVID last year. Seems pretty safe to not put your kids in a seatbelt then. Or yourself. I would also argue that a parent who didn't put a seatbelt on their child while they were driving was endangering their life. It's not about how deadly or dangerous something is according to statistics. It's about ignoring available safety measures and actively putting your child in harms way.

Vaccines are preventative measures taken to save lives and help get rid of something as much as reasonably possible. Just like seatbelts. Just like airbags. Just like every other vaccine that we take that has barely been questioned at all. If there was 100% vaccinated, you would see a SHARP decrease in cases of COVID and virtually zero deaths. Get the vaccine people. The knots people are tying themselves in to avoid it is getting silly. There is no reasonable reason to not get it. The only folks fighting it are, as I said, politically motivated. It's not based in anything related to science. There's a reason you're seeing a densely packed state like CA have better numbers than a sparsely populated state like North Dakota.

 

[Maynard]

Look they are going to release more information. James O Keefe has had many things retracted. There is also data coming out of India that ivermectin along with I think doxycycline vitamin c and zinc taken for 10 days has wiped out covid the delta variant where they were in serious trouble with it. Now they see on a bad day one or two cases. It’s been all over Twitter the past few days.

These drugs we are using are causing severe heart problems, myocarditis, heart failure, blood clots in healthy people. The companies know it.

Which blog is this from?

 

[Schrute farms]

There is also data coming out of India....

Referencing something being done in India -- wow that's pretty awesome.

It’s been all over Twitter the past few days.

This is pure Gold. I might steal this phrase and start using it (if you don't mind).

 

[Bandit]

"More truth is gonna come out, we have all the evidence and it's gonna be HUGE". Where have I heard that before?

 

[DrHansReinhardt]

Look they are going to release more information. James O Keefe has had many things retracted. There is also data coming out of India that ivermectin along with I think doxycycline vitamin c and zinc taken for 10 days has wiped out covid the delta variant where they were in serious trouble with it. Now they see on a bad day one or two cases. It’s been all over Twitter the past few days.

These drugs we are using are causing severe heart problems, myocarditis, heart failure, blood clots in healthy people. The companies know it.

James O Keefe is a convicted fraud. Iver is not working in India
Fox News Notes James O'Keefe's Criminal Past After His Newest Video Is Released
India Removes Ivermectin From Covid Clinical Guidelines - Headline Health

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Why is it that people who cast doubt on the profit incentives in healthcare also vociferously defend our for-profit healthcare system?

 

[Bandit]

Why is it that people who cast doubt on the profit incentives in healthcare also vociferously defend our for-profit healthcare system?

I defend the Doctors and researchers, not the executives charging $100 for a $5 bottle of insulin. Literally every medication has a laundry list of potential side effects. 80% of a commercial advertising a drug is listing all the shit that can go wrong with it. The question is does the risk outweigh the benefit. I don't think it would be in pharma's best interest to be pushing the entire world to get something if it was going to kill us. I mean killing off your consumers doesn't exactly seem like a winning strategy, does it?


I mean f***...

HUMIRA can cause serious side effects, including:

• Serious infections. These include TB and infections caused by viruses, fungi, or bacteria. Symptoms related to TB include a cough, low-grade fever, weight loss, or loss of body fat and muscle.
• Hepatitis B infection in carriers of the virus. Symptoms include muscle aches, feeling very tired, dark urine, skin or eyes that look yellow, little or no appetite, vomiting, clay-colored bowel movements, fever, chills, stomach discomfort, and skin rash.
• Allergic reactions. Symptoms of a serious allergic reaction include hives, trouble breathing, and swelling of your face, eyes, lips, or mouth.
• Nervous system problems. Signs and symptoms include numbness or tingling, problems with your vision, weakness in your arms or legs, and dizziness.
• Blood problems (decreased blood cells that help fight infections or stop bleeding). Symptoms include a fever that does not go away, bruising or bleeding very easily, or looking very pale.
• Heart failure (new or worsening). Symptoms include shortness of breath, swelling of your ankles or feet, and sudden weight gain.
• Immune reactions including a lupus-like syndrome. Symptoms include chest discomfort or pain that does not go away, shortness of breath, joint pain, or rash on your cheeks or arms that gets worse in the sun.
• Liver problems. Symptoms include feeling very tired, skin or eyes that look yellow, poor appetite or vomiting, and pain on the right side of your stomach (abdomen). These problems can lead to liver failure and death.
• Psoriasis (new or worsening). Symptoms include red scaly patches or raised bumps that are filled with pus.

Might as well say "Anyone who has breathed oxygen may die from taking Humira."

 

[Papa Mocha 15]

I watched part of the video and it seemed like the main discussion point was about natural immunity being effective. Not sure if that is what you are referencing when you say "to the exclusion of all other evidence."

If so I am confused about what has happened that people actually believe that natural immunity is not incredibly effective. And to believe "all other evidence" points against this is somewhat of a wild position to take.

It is perfectly logical to suggest that people who have not had covid should get the vaccine as that is safer than obtaining protection from getting infected.

But if someone like myself who has already had covid (before the vaccine was even available) to continue with this narrative that is being shoved down our throats suggesting that there is zero evidence supporting natural immunity as providing excellent protection is just completely incorrect. Even Faucci who's become the chief scientist in charge of pushing the vaccine won't make claims as agressive as that. In fact he was asked this a couple weeks ago here is his response:

He continued to say: “So, as we talk about vaccine mandates, I get calls all the time, people say ‘I’ve already had COVID, I’m protected.’ And now the study says maybe even more protected than the vaccine alone. Should they also get the vaccine? How do you make the case to them?”
Fauci responded: “You know, that’s a really good point Sanjay. I don’t have a really firm answer for you on that. That’s something that we’re going to have to discuss regarding the durability of the response. The one thing the paper from Israel didn’t tell you is whether or not as high as the protection is with natural infection, what’s the durability compared to the durability of the vaccine.”
“So it is conceivable that you got infected, you’re protected, but you may not be protected for an indefinite amount of time,” Fauci said. “So, I think that is something that we need to sit down and discuss seriously because you very appropriately pointed out, it is an issue and there could be an argument saying what you said.”


There is certainly an incredibly strong amount of pressure to paint vaccination as the only effective protection. But there is a tremendous amount of evidence both in relation to Covid and a long history of other viruses that Natural immunity is effective.

Just as a favor, if you post interviews and quote comments, would you be able to provide the link as well so no one has to go researching it? They are numerous interviews over the course of the pandemic. I always give you guys my info on where I get it from and cite it or will get it if asked, but just wanted to make sure the info goes both ways.

As always, I disagree but hope you have a good day . Take care!

 

[Papa Mocha 15]

I defend the Doctors and researchers, not the executives charging $100 for a $5 bottle of insulin. Literally every medication has a laundry list of potential side effects. 80% of a commercial advertising a drug is listing all the shit that can go wrong with it. The question is does the risk outweigh the benefit. I don't think it would be in pharma's best interest to be pushing the entire world to get something if it was going to kill us. I mean killing off your consumers doesn't exactly seem like a winning strategy, does it?


I mean f***...

HUMIRA can cause serious side effects, including:

• Serious infections. These include TB and infections caused by viruses, fungi, or bacteria. Symptoms related to TB include a cough, low-grade fever, weight loss, or loss of body fat and muscle.
• Hepatitis B infection in carriers of the virus. Symptoms include muscle aches, feeling very tired, dark urine, skin or eyes that look yellow, little or no appetite, vomiting, clay-colored bowel movements, fever, chills, stomach discomfort, and skin rash.
• Allergic reactions. Symptoms of a serious allergic reaction include hives, trouble breathing, and swelling of your face, eyes, lips, or mouth.
• Nervous system problems. Signs and symptoms include numbness or tingling, problems with your vision, weakness in your arms or legs, and dizziness.
• Blood problems (decreased blood cells that help fight infections or stop bleeding). Symptoms include a fever that does not go away, bruising or bleeding very easily, or looking very pale.
• Heart failure (new or worsening). Symptoms include shortness of breath, swelling of your ankles or feet, and sudden weight gain.
• Immune reactions including a lupus-like syndrome. Symptoms include chest discomfort or pain that does not go away, shortness of breath, joint pain, or rash on your cheeks or arms that gets worse in the sun.
• Liver problems. Symptoms include feeling very tired, skin or eyes that look yellow, poor appetite or vomiting, and pain on the right side of your stomach (abdomen). These problems can lead to liver failure and death.
• Psoriasis (new or worsening). Symptoms include red scaly patches or raised bumps that are filled with pus.

Might as well say "Anyone who has breathed oxygen may die from taking Humira."

I agree with your point, just wanted to clarify something. There are side effects and adverse effects. We expect side effects, like Ibuprofen can make you sleepy, bloating, belching, nausea etc. Adverse effects are the rough ones like GI Bleed, hemorrhage etc. Just wanted to chime in because some believe meds out there exist with no side effects. All meds have side effects, it's the adverse ones we worry on. But people often interchange them.

 

[Papa Mocha 15]

They just happen to find scientists that expose them? This is a super right wing group that also said the election is rigged. All of this stuff is getting so annoying. The biggest problem is we have two sides and its like each side trys to find the new grievence. If its not vaccines, it election fraud, if its not a presidents tax return its something else. Its like, whats the new problem to always dig into. Sorry but this is all just so frustrating at this point.

Moreover, O'Keefe was arrested and plead guilty to attempting to phone tapping a senators office.
He's also banned permanently on Twitter. Actively suing to get back on for promoting conspiracy theories using multiple accounts to advance his own agenda.

Upon investigation of his work, the Attorney General's Office found that O'Keefe had misrepresented the actions of ACORN workers in California and that the workers had not broken any laws.


ACORN filmmaker James O’Keefe sentenced in Sen. Mary Landrieu break-in

Project Veritas Founder James O’Keefe Sues Twitter Over Ban

 

[Bandit]

I agree with your point, just wanted to clarify something. There are side effects and adverse effects. We expect side effects, like Ibuprofen can make you sleepy, bloating, belching, nausea etc. Adverse effects are the rough ones like GI Bleed, hemorrhage etc. Just wanted to chime in because some believe meds out there exist with no side effects. All meds have side effects, it's the adverse ones we worry on. But people often interchange them.

Yeah it's a fine line in some cases. Prozac can kill your boner, for example. Is that a "side effect" or and "adverse effect"? I'd certainly call it adverse. But yeah, your point is taken, thanks for the clarification.

 

[Choralone]

Look they are going to release more information. James O Keefe has had many things retracted. There is also data coming out of India that ivermectin along with I think doxycycline vitamin c and zinc taken for 10 days has wiped out covid the delta variant where they were in serious trouble with it. Now they see on a bad day one or two cases. It’s been all over Twitter the past few days.

These drugs we are using are causing severe heart problems, myocarditis, heart failure, blood clots in healthy people. The companies know it.

Ivermectin - aka the horse paste treatment. This vitamin and horse de-wormer cocktail has been embraced by anti-vax conservatives for months as an alternative treatment. It's baloney.