Olympics: GDT 13 feb Finland vs Sweden

[Svedu]

I still think Sweden are the better team. Should go further in the tournament. Especially if Granlund gets a four game suspension or something like that.

...

Of course you do. Is anyone surprised?

 

[AB13]

You are such a whin* and sore l*ser. Every single time.

Heiskanen is a top D in the NHL no matter what. The Finnish forward group is pretty insane, especially the center depth. Sweden isn't even close.
Yeah, you have better D´s but we have something called organization, good goalies and I trust this generation of forwards in Barkov, Aho, Lundell, Rantanen, Teräväinen, Hintz etc. Move on buddy.

Sweden have better forwards, defencemen and goalies and the only thing I see an argument against is goaltending. I think neutral fans will agree. You guys will litteraly play mediocre guys like Puljujärvi, Lehkonen/Armia and Kakko on the forward group in best on best while Sweden can have 4 lines of first and second liners. Bums like Ristolainen in key defensive roles. I don’t think there is much difference between Finland and the Czechs, best on best.

 

[Svedu]

Sweden have better forwards, defencemen and goalies and the only thing I see an argument against is goaltending. I think neutral fans will agree. You guys will litteraly play mediocre guys like Puljujärvi, Lehkonen/Armia and Kakko on the forward group in best on best. Bums like Ristolainen in key defensive roles. I don’t think there is much difference between Finland and the Czechs, best on best.

Better forwards? Really? Are you serious or are you having a mental breakdown after this loss?

I actually think Kakko would be pretty good with Lundell on the same line. I´m not even doubtful. Kakko has always been a monster in the Leijonat jersey.
Puljujärvi on a fourth line or together with Aho and Teräväinen? Let's just say I could see some chemistry.

Ristolainen? I would leave him outside the roster, not a fan. That's the only thing you've managed to get right.
We have some really good underrated upcoming D´s as well, don't you worry. Heinola is in a shit organization and Robin Salo? The most underrated talent in the NHL. He was outstanding in the SHL and just look at Kylington? D´s can take some time. Don't even get me started regarding Niemelä. He will be there in 2 years as well, trust me.

But hey, am I surprised? You prefer Dahlin over Heiskanen.

 

[AB13]

Better forwards? Really? Are you serious or are you having a mental breakdown after this loss?

Finland lack depth scoring. Sweden have four lines of top producers. Depends on what you value I guess. But guys like Kapanen, Puljujärvi, Armia, Lehkonen and Kakko would all have to play for you and they get nowhere near team Sweden and four of those guys don’t make our B team top 6. I think your forwards are closer to the Czechs.

 

[FiLe]

As stupid as this whole arguing about who would make whose best-on-best team is, the blatant homerism makes it even stupider. Heiskanen is consistently ranked as one of the top-10 d-men in the NHL. And the only Swede who consistently makes those lists is Hedman. So saying that Heiskanen would maybe make it as Sweden's 8th D is pretty laughable.

Of course, Heiskanen would likely be the only Finnish d-man to break Sweden's squad - that is something we can all agree with, probably.

 

[Jugitsu]

You are such a whin* and sore l*ser. Every single time.

Heiskanen is a top D in the NHL no matter what. The Finnish forward group is pretty insane, especially the center depth. Sweden isn't even close.
Yeah, you have better D´s but we have something called organization, good goalies and I trust this generation of forwards in Barkov, Aho, Lundell, Rantanen, Teräväinen, Hintz etc. Move on buddy.

He’s not wrong about Heiskanen though. Perhaps in a vacuum Heiskanen could make the team but role wise they have better options. And Heiskanen is arguably not having particularly strong season. At least according to expectations.

He’s wrong about Hintz though. Weird how low he thinks Hintz is in the hierarchy.

 

[AB13]

He’s not wrong about Heiskanen though. Perhaps in a vacuum Heiskanen could make the team but role wise they have better options. And Heiskanen is arguably not having particularly strong season. At least according to expectations.

He’s wrong about Hintz though. Weird how low he thinks Hintz is in the hierarchy.

Maybe I only catch his bad games but I do not think Hintz is particularly skillful, creative or dynamic. Strangely good stats, but there are swedes in competition for similar roles who match that. Hintz just doesn’t pass the eye test but maybe I am wrong and just don’t see his good games

 

[Svedu]

He’s not wrong about Heiskanen though. Perhaps in a vacuum Heiskanen could make the team but role wise they have better options. And Heiskanen is arguably not having particularly strong season. At least according to expectations.

He’s wrong about Hintz though. Weird how low he thinks Hintz is in the hierarchy.

I get what you are saying.

Regarding Hintz? No, not surprised. This guy probably believes they have better centers and goalies as well. Just read his comments.

 

[karhukissa]

Finland lack depth scoring. Sweden have four lines of top producers. Depends on what you value I guess. But guys like Kapanen, Puljujärvi, Armia, Lehkonen and Kakko would all have to play for you and they get nowhere near team Sweden and four of those guys don’t make our B team top 6. I think your forwards are closer to the Czechs.

Haha bro, what even is "depth scoring". Hockey and all other sports are bottom line business, it's about star power. Finland top-6 is so much stronger than Sweden, that bottom 6 doesn't matter that much. It's enough that they are good shutdown players, who are able to also create and score if necessary. And guys like Lundell and Puljujärvi are more than good for those roles.

And one thing also what you miss here dear AB, look at 2 best players of Sweden. Bäckström won't be there for the next Olympics and Hedman is getting old too. All of Finland's top players are younger than 30, there's a difference. Also Swedish center production has pretty much died, so you are extremely thin in the middle, while that's our strongest part.

We've discussed about this before too and i actually thought that you were a changed man and realised facts but i was wrong apparently

 

[Jugitsu]

Maybe I only catch his bad games but I do not think Hintz is particularly skillful, creative or dynamic. Strangely good stats, but there are swedes in competition for similar roles who match that. Hintz just doesn’t pass the eye test but maybe I am wrong and just don’t see his good games

Creative? Not particularly, though it depends what you perceive as creative. Skilled? Yes. Dynamic? Definitely. Hintz sees the ice very well, has very good hands, shot and exceptional speed for his size. He’s no Lindholm defensively but he’s definitely not slacking in that department either. He may not be someone you can build your team around but he’s a lot better than what you give him credit for.

 

[Svedu]

Finns need a symphathy call to score.

Jävligt saltigt gubben. Your comments are entertaining, thank you.

 

[ChickenBurrito]

The funniest thing would be to Swedes lose this game lol
they have been given keys to the castle by the refs
and if they was to lose this one...would be so embarrassing
for them.

 

[David OSullivan]

Maybe I only catch his bad games but I do not think Hintz is particularly skillful, creative or dynamic. Strangely good stats, but there are swedes in competition for similar roles who match that. Hintz just doesn’t pass the eye test but maybe I am wrong and just don’t see his good games

I doubt you watch him at all if that's your take. Possibly the first few games of the season when he was coming back from injury he was off. If those are the games you watch, let me confirm that hintz is a far far better player than those games.

In any case, it's clear a best on best game or even a series between Finland and Sweden could go either way.it would be a very very competitive series.

 

[FiLe]

Regarding the "depth scoring" argument:

Finland presently has 4 players who are at 1PPG average or over, Sweden has 3.

If we look at the "almost" 1PPG stat, past 0.9, then it's even 5-5.

What Sweden has, without a doubt, is more depth. They have 19 forwards who are past 0.5PPG average, while Finland has 10. However, only 12 players are in the regular lineup at any given time. And, of course, you probably don't pick your fourth liners solely based on their points production. The 9th best Swede presently has a 0.7PPG average in the league, while the 9th best Finn has a 0.6. That's not a staggering difference.

 

[Svedu]

Finland have been saved by make up calls for their own dirty dangerous plays. Such a shithouse team. As always.

There we have one again. You make me laugh, therefor I like you. There is a Swedish phrase "Knipa igen". But I guess you've never heard about that one?

 

[Ciccarelli]

Just opened this thread and omfg, this AB guy totally lost it at the loss rarely if ever do you see someone so bitter

 

[AB13]

Haha bro, what even is "depth scoring". Hockey and all other sports are bottom line business, it's about star power. Finland top-6 is so much stronger than Sweden, that bottom 6 doesn't matter that much. It's enough that they are good shutdown players, who are able to also create and score if necessary. And guys like Lundell and Puljujärvi are more than good for those roles.

And one thing also what you miss here dear AB, look at 2 best players of Sweden. Bäckström won't be there for the next Olympics and Hedman is getting old too. All of Finland's top players are younger than 30, there's a difference.

We've discussed about this before too and i actually thought that you were a changed man and realised facts but i was wrong apparently

I don’t see how the finnish top 6 is so much better than

Landeskog - Bäckström- Nylander
Pettersson - Zibanejad - Forsberg. If you think that the difference between what Finland have and that is so large that nothing else matters you are the one being unreasonable. And Sweden have a very good young core coming up. I expect us to be better in 2026 too. We have unreal defencemen coming up and I expect Pettersson, Raymond, Eklund and Holtz to be superstars by then. Bratt is a PPG player born in 98. Forsberg, Nylander, Lindholm, Zibanejad will still be going. Dahlin in four years should be better than Hedman is today. Will be intresting to see how Edvinsson, Boqvist, Sandin, Broberg, Björnfot, Söderström, Lundqvist develop. Heinola and Niemela are the only good youngsters you have on defence that aren’t NHL regulars right? Lindholm, Brodin, Kylingtpn, Andersson and maybe Klingberg will still be around.

And a clear bottom 6 and top 6 doesn’t exist as a concept in best on best tournaments for teams with enough firepower. Having 4 scoring lines will usually lead to better sucess than only really having 5 or 6 high end NHL scorers like Finland. (alongside little high end puckmoving on the backend). Look at past international tournament winners. Depth is incredibly important. Why does Canada almost always do better than Russia with arguably less firepower? You don’t win a best on best tournament with a bottom 6 with 3rd and 4th liners at the NHL level.

 

[AB13]

I don’t see how saying Sweden have a better best on best roster is controversial. I also don’t see how saying we have better youngsters is controversial. Look at recent first rounders. Every finn is going crazy over me saying our team is better and underrating one player in particular. Disregard my assessment of Hintz, and I don’t think it’s fair to say I have ”lost it”.

 

[Zub]

What? Finland is the last team to support if Sweden go out. Support every team that plays Finland, in every game, without exception. Never understood the ”support your neighbours” thing. Are you happy when Norway win gold in skiing? Of course not. It’s awful. Always root against your biggest rival. I can support Finland in football and Norway/Denmark in hockey though.

You and i, we think alike

 

[OskarOskarius]

Haha bro, what even is "depth scoring". Hockey and all other sports are bottom line business, it's about star power. Finland top-6 is so much stronger than Sweden, that bottom 6 doesn't matter that much. It's enough that they are good shutdown players, who are able to also create and score if necessary. And guys like Lundell and Puljujärvi are more than good for those roles.

And one thing also what you miss here dear AB, look at 2 best players of Sweden. Bäckström won't be there for the next Olympics and Hedman is getting old too. All of Finland's top players are younger than 30, there's a difference. Also Swedish center production has pretty much died, so you are extremely thin in the middle, while that's our strongest part.

We've discussed about this before too and i actually thought that you were a changed man and realised facts but i was wrong apparently

It’s not like next olympics will have NHL players. For that reason it will keep being Finland B vs Sweden E/F. But i’m not mad it evens the odds and make it exciting.

 

[karhukissa]

I don’t see how the finnish top 6 is so much better than

Landeskog - Bäckström- Nylander
Pettersson - Zibanejad - Forsberg. If you think that the difference between what Finland have and that is so large that nothing else matters you are the one being unreasonable. And Sweden have a very good young core coming up. I expect us to be better in 2026 too. We have unreal defencemen coming up and I expect Pettersson, Raymond, Eklund and Holtz to be superstars by then. Bratt is a PPG player born in 98. Forsberg, Nylander, Lindholm, Zibanejad will still be going. Dahlin in four years should be better than Hedman is today. Will be intresting to see how Edvinsson, Boqvist, Sandin, Broberg, Björnfot, Söderström, Lundqvist develop. Heinola and Niemela are the only good youngsters you have on defence that aren’t NHL regulars right? Lindholm, Brodin, Kylingtpn, Andersson and maybe Klingberg will still be around.

And a clear bottom 6 and top 6 doesn’t exist as a concept in best on best tournaments for teams with enough firepower. Having 4 scoring lines will usually lead to better sucess than only really having 5 or 6 high end NHL scorers like Finland. (alongside little high end puckmoving on the backend). Look at past international tournament winners. Depth is incredibly important. Why does Canada almost always do better than Russia with arguably less firepower? You don’t win a best on best tournament with a bottom 6 with 3rd and 4th liners at the NHL level.

You got some points here and there but there is one really big difference that you don't take into consideration, let me tell you where the difference comes and i make it very clear.

There is nobody even close to Barkov in Swedish forward lineup, not even close. There is no winger even close to Rantanen in Swedish forward group, not even close. The difference between Rantanen and Nylander for example is bigger than difference between Nylander and say Puljujärvi. Aho is considered by pretty much every single Hfboards active NHL watcher as top-10 center in the NHL. There is nobody in Swedish team with similar firepower than Laine, even though he's inconsistent he's still a threat that Sweden can only dream about. This is the difference you can't see, our top players are so much better than your (Forwards), that it compensates that depth.

You can list million swedish players, but you can only play 12 forwards. Also talking about Holtz and those players is just fairydust, anything can happen with these youngsters. You can expect players to be superstars, while our youngsters already are superstars. Lundell is proven future NHL center, so we have already all center spots locked for the long future.

I'm not even going to start with Dahlin, but i just tell you that now when Hedman and OEL are old, you have zero D-superstars for the near future after they quit. And i doubt you will have in the near future either. My point is that your top is getting worse year by year while your depth is absolutely impressive, i admit that it's insane. But top is not the same what it was.

 

[karhukissa]

It’s not like next olympics will have NHL players. For that reason it will keep being Finland B vs Sweden E/F. But i’m not mad it evens the odds and make it exciting.

There are 48 finnish NHL players this season + goalies and more are coming every year, so you can stop that Finland B gimmick, i get that you are still annoyed but always remember to include facts too.

 

[teravaineSAROS]

Just opened this thread and omfg, this AB guy totally lost it at the loss rarely if ever do you see someone so bitter

Ahh that explains my confusion. I had AB blocked so I couldn't see the comments and kept thinking "who are these people arguing with!? eachother???"

 

[AB13]

You got some points here and there but there is one really big difference that you don't take into consideration, let me tell you where the difference comes and i make it very clear.

There is nobody even close to Barkov in Swedish forward lineup, not even close. There is no winger even close to Rantanen in Swedish forward group, not even close. The difference between Rantanen and Nylander for example is bigger than difference between Nylander and say Puljujärvi. Aho is considered by pretty much every single Hfboards active NHL watcher as top-10 center in the NHL. There is nobody in Swedish team with similar firepower than Laine, even though he's inconsistent he's still a threat that Sweden can only dream about. This is the difference you can't see, our top players are so much better than your (Forwards), that it compensates that depth.

You can list million swedish players, but you can only play 12 forwards. Also talking about Holtz and those players is just fairydust, anything can happen with these youngsters. You can expect players to be superstars, while our youngsters already are superstars. Lundell is proven future NHL center, so we have already all center spots locked for the long future.

I'm not even going to start with Dahlin, but i just tell you that now when Hedman and OEL are old, you have zero D-superstars for the near future after they quit. And i doubt you will have in the near future either. My point is that your top is getting worse year by year while your depth is absolutely impressive, i admit that it's insane. But top is not the same what it was.

I just don't agree with your assessment on players. Barkov is good, but I think Zibanejad is close to him. There isn't that much to separate them in terms of production and both are obviously great two way players. I think Aho is on the same level as both of them, but so is Pettersson, if you look at all seasons he has played besides this one. I actually think Pettersson is the most skillful forward from Sweden and Finland combined. Rantanen is great but he's not miles ahead of his own teammate in Landeskog.

And to say we don't match Laines firepower is disingenuous. Forsberg is by every metric a better offensive player than Laine right now, but I agree that Laine has better raw tools. But if you think Aho is much better than the streaky Pettersson, Forsberg has to be considered better than Laine. Same thing goes for Nylander really.

And I will say that depth matters way more than you think. Ovi and Malkin is rarely enough for the Russians to beat Canada or the US who have every line scoring at a high level. Team Europe made the Finals at the World Cup without real stars because they had scoring from everywhere. Would you take the Edmonton Oilers over the Calgary Flames because of a few good forwards? Would you take the Blackhawks over the Blues?

The comment that grinds my gears the most is the one about defencemen though. Considering his surroundings I think Dahlin has been as basically good as Hedman for lets say three months now and expect him to hit prime Hedman/Karlsson levels in 2026. Dahlin is the single player in the NHL you underrate the most. He is one of the best passers and puck movers in the world, already, and controls games for fun. I know that I am higher on Dahlin than most, but I would take him over every single player in the world over the next 10 years, besides McDavid. He's that good. To say we won't have superstar defencemen is just weird. Dahlin is better than Hedman at the same age. Adam Boqvist and Rasmus Sandin are just as talented as Klingberg/OEL. Edvinsson is one of the worlds best young non-NHL defencemen and a considered a way bigger talent than the likes of Ekholm, Klingberg, OEL, Lindholm, Brodin at the same age. He is nowhere near Dahlin but still a really, really high end prospect, and I can't see him not surpass Heiskanen. Lets look at 2000s born first round defencemen. Sweden have Rasmus Dahlin, Adam Boqvist, Rasmus Sandin, Nils Lundqvist, Phillip Broberg, Tobias Björnfot and Simon Edvinsson. No country in the world matches that. Our 2000s born defensive core is arguably better than anyone we have ever had. I can't see any defencemen not named Heiskanen crack a Swedish lineup for a long time considering many of our current best on best defencemen aren't that old.

 

[karhukissa]

I just don't agree with your assessment on players. Barkov is good, but I think Zibanejad is close to him. There isn't that much to separate them in terms of production and both are obviously great two way players. I think Aho is on the same level as both of them, but so is Pettersson, if you look at all seasons he has played besides this one. I actually think Pettersson is the most skillful forward from Sweden and Finland combined.

And to say we don't match Laines firepower is disingenuous. Forsberg is by every metric a better offensive player than Laine right now, but I agree that Laine has better raw tools. But if you think Aho is much better than the streaky Pettersson, Forsberg has to be considered better than Laine. Same thing goes for Nylander really.

The comment that grinds my gears the most is the one about defencemen though. I think Dahlin has been as good as Hedman for two months now and expect him to hit prime Hedman/Karlsson levels in 2026. Dahlin is the single player in the NHL you underrate the most. He is one of the best passers and puck movers in the world, already, and controls games for fun. I know that I am higher on Dahlin than most, but I would take him over every single player in the world over the next 10 years, besides McDavid. He's that good. To say we won't have superstar defencemen is just weird. Dahlin is better than Hedman at the same age. Adam Boqvist and Rasmus Sandin are just as talented as Klingberg/OEL. Edvinsson is one of the worlds best young non-NHL defencemen and a considered a way bigger talent than the likes of Ekholm, Klingberg, OEL, Lindholm, Brodin at the same age. He is nowhere near Dahlin but still a really, really high end prospect, and I can't see him not surpass Heiskanen.

Lets look at 2000s born first round defencemen. Sweden have Rasmus Dahlin, Adam Boqvist, Rasmus Sandin, Nils Lundqvist, Phillip Broberg, Tobias Björnfot and Simon Edvinsson. No country in the world matches that. Our 2000s born defensive core is arguably better than anyone we have ever had.

I'm talking today and based on all metrics and you talk a lot about whatabouts or whatifs. You can't even talk about EP in a same sentence with Barkov or Aho, i'm sorry about it. Zibanejad is close to Aho but gap to Barkov is quite big. We are talking about top-5 center here, EP is not even top-20 (and i like him)

Swedish d-man production is extremely good, i'd argue that it's the best in the world. SHL and Swedish leagues just pumps quality defenders every single year. But are there future Hedmans? Legit superstars? Currently if we don't count Hedman, there is zero. But there doesn't have to be, quality is very good anyways. There might be future Hedman superstars, but we can't say for certain.

We can talk about future superstars and hope and wish, but it's not necessarily the outcome. It's pretty naive to think that Holtz and Eklund are becoming superstars by default, since for the last 10 drafts you have 1 superstar forward and that's Zibanejad, even though you have many players drafter first round every year. I could say that Kemell and Lambert will be superstars, but how can i know. They might be busts too, time will tell.