Garth Snow Pt. III - Snow’s inactivity

[redbull]

I know it's not popular around here (well, maybe now it may be) but I think it's time to re-tool this Isles team and WITHOUT Johnny. More importantly - WITHOUT GARTH.

The numbers just don't add up. Regardless of how we got here, given what the market price is for our top players, and how bad the team is even WITH the top players, there's simply no way to improve this team enough to be a cup contender, even by spending to the cap. We don't have enough of, or talented enough defensemen, no #1 goalie and no depth at forward. The holes are too many and too big.

A new president/GM/coach may do wonders with this team in a few years IF they land some serious assets for their pending UFAs and build around Barzal.

There are few sellers, the market will pay dearly for Bailey and Tavares. And more for Lee and Eberle next deadline. Those four players can bring back at least 7-8 great assets, not necessarily picks, but young players with upside (thinking guys like Kapanen or Nylander from the Leafs, or a young dman from Nashville or a top tier goalie prospect.

The flipside of trying to plug holes with very few assets (except the two first rounders) and major holes and increasing spend and flat cap -- seems like futility.

Even if JT wants to re-sign, I just don't see enough to make a competitive team, a perennial cup favourite. Just doesn't add up.

Regardless of Snow's tenure and past failures, looking just at the situation RIGHT NOW, it seems that parting ways with JT may be the better move for the franchise. Not for right now, but maybe three years from now.

Again. It's sickening to think this way after all the failures of 12 years (and way more before Snow) - BUT, objectively, removing emotions and rage, it may be the smarter move. Especially given the level of assets those two top NHL scorers would bring back at a time with so much competition, no sellers and the difference making ability of such players.

Imagine Nylander, Kapanen and a #1 pick for Tavares, who I'm sure the Leafs would re-sign? Another #1 plus a dman for Bailey? Imagine going into the next two drafts with 5-6 first round picks and cap space and players on ELCs? And Sorokin not far off?

Sickening, yes. BUT if it means no Garth and the price is no JT - with a vision to Belmont, I don't know....I think it makes sense.

 

[Lame Lambert]

Calling out someone on a podcast is worthless. That is the same as us saying we call out Snow on a message board. Compton has access to Snow through his rights as a member of the press, why are these guys scared to ask this fool real questions. They just listen to him dictate from his pulpit and write about it. Being a reporter should involve asking the tough questions and getting answers.

Maybe because Compton is an editor for the NHL and would be fired on the spot if he wrote a piece trashing the management of ANY team?

 

[Satan'sIsland81]

Then he says, "no comment" and refuses to answer any questions from them. Great way to lose your job. It's just not a beat writers job to ask those questions.

It is not a beat writers' job to ask questions about upgrading the team or about a team's performance before injuries occur or why promises made by a GM are not followed through? That is news to me. As I have alluded to many times, I have professionally covered college and high school sports for a decade and I ask more than softball questions to these coaches and they get annoyed at times but they never tell me they are not going to talk to me again the next time. If Garth Snow refuses to talk to the press because he does not like the questions, he should not be employed in this type of position. And if he is, then every media source should refuse to cover the team, do not give them any press. We will see how long that lasts with Ledecky and Malkin being okay with that.

 

[Sparksrus3]

I am saying that if fans continue to pay money for tickets, food, merchandise regardless of the on ice product or the refusal to dismiss a GM that is at his best comatose and at his worst a delusional failure, then why would the owners ever care about making changes. I am not even so much criticizing you for going to the games. My main problem is you saying I will support the organization if Tanner Fritz is the #1 center? Do you not see you are being duped and played for a fool?

Nah, I don't see it this way. Played for a fool and duped? Years ago they didn't even put names on the back of the sweaters . Just numbers. You didn't even know who was in the lineup til the game started . You cheer for the patch on the front of the sweater.Players come and go . It's sports. It's entertainment. Of course I want a winning team. It's more fun when you're in top if the standings . Nothing I do will change how the team is run . If I go to maybe 1 more home game during the regular season we will have a blast.
If we squeak into the 8th seed for the playoffs why then do we sell out every game and support the team . The prices even go up fir playoff games don't they? It's night night time now. Soon it will be time fir the 4:43. Let's talk tomorrow .

 

[PK Cronin]

I know it's not popular around here (well, maybe now it may be) but I think it's time to re-tool this Isles team and WITHOUT Johnny. More importantly - WITHOUT GARTH.

The numbers just don't add up. Regardless of how we got here, given what the market price is for our top players, and how bad the team is even WITH the top players, there's simply no way to improve this team enough to be a cup contender, even by spending to the cap. We don't have enough of, or talented enough defensemen, no #1 goalie and no depth at forward. The holes are too many and too big.

A new president/GM/coach may do wonders with this team in a few years IF they land some serious assets for their pending UFAs and build around Barzal.

There are few sellers, the market will pay dearly for Bailey and Tavares. And more for Lee and Eberle next deadline. Those four players can bring back at least 7-8 great assets, not necessarily picks, but young players with upside (thinking guys like Kapanen or Nylander from the Leafs, or a young dman from Nashville or a top tier goalie prospect.

The flipside of trying to plug holes with very few assets (except the two first rounders) and major holes and increasing spend and flat cap -- seems like futility.

Even if JT wants to re-sign, I just don't see enough to make a competitive team, a perennial cup favourite. Just doesn't add up.

Regardless of Snow's tenure and past failures, looking just at the situation RIGHT NOW, it seems that parting ways with JT may be the better move for the franchise. Not for right now, but maybe three years from now.

Again. It's sickening to think this way after all the failures of 12 years (and way more before Snow) - BUT, objectively, removing emotions and rage, it may be the smarter move. Especially given the level of assets those two top NHL scorers would bring back at a time with so much competition, no sellers and the difference making ability of such players.

Imagine Nylander, Kapanen and a #1 pick for Tavares, who I'm sure the Leafs would re-sign? Another #1 plus a dman for Bailey? Imagine going into the next two drafts with 5-6 first round picks and cap space and players on ELCs? And Sorokin not far off?

Sickening, yes. BUT if it means no Garth and the price is no JT - with a vision to Belmont, I don't know....I think it makes sense.

It's not outlandish, one of my friends recently suggested the same thing to me. I think it can be done with a better GM who knows what they are doing. The roster can't be constructed the same way it currently is (4th liners locked up on bad deals, backup goalies on bad deals, Nick Leddy being a #1, etc.).

 

[Satan'sIsland81]

Maybe because Compton is an editor for the NHL and would be fired on the spot if he wrote a piece trashing the management of ANY team?

What is this communist Russia? But again, who said anything about just writing an editorial trashing management? I said ask legit, non editorialized questions. This is what the press is for. I really dont mean this to sound condescending but as a journalist who majored and graduated with a journalism degree, I am not sure many of you know the difference between asking and writing about legit issues and questions on your beat and "editorializing."

 

[PK Cronin]

It is not a beat writers' job to ask questions about upgrading the team or about a team's performance before injuries occur or why promises made by a GM are not followed through? That is news to me. As I have alluded to many times, I have professionally covered college and high school sports for a decade and I ask more than softball questions to these coaches and they get annoyed at times but they never tell me they are not going to talk to me again the next time. If Garth Snow refuses to talk to the press because he does not like the questions, he should not be employed in this type of position. And if he is, then every media source should refuse to cover the team, do not give them any press. We will see how long that lasts with Ledecky and Malkin being okay with that.

Good for you, and yet, none of the professional writers who cover professional sports ever ask the questions no matter who it is...wonder why.

 

[Satan'sIsland81]

Good for you, and yet, none of the professional writers who cover professional sports ever ask the questions no matter who it is...wonder why.

Wait, do you follow any other sports? You dont ever hear the Yankees or Giants beat reporters, just as examples, asking tough questions and calling out the GM or coach for contradictions or things that dont make sense? Did you even pay attention to the Giants this year and what went on in the media with that team and not only its management but all the way on up to the owner?

 

[PK Cronin]

Wait, do you follow any other sports? You dont ever hear the Yankees or Giants beat reporters, just as examples, asking tough questions and calling out the GM or coach for contradictions or things that dont make sense? Did you even pay attention to the Giants this year and what went on in the media with that team and not only its management but all the way on up to the owner?

Apples and oranges.

 

[MJF]

That was under owners who truly dont care. These owners may not care about winning a cup as much as they say they do, but I bet you they do not want to be embarrassed with an empty brand new stadium. When you have fans that say I will go to the games and be just as excited and support them whether JT is the #1 center or Tanner Fritz, do you not see why there would be no reason for an owner to step out of his comfort zone and make difficult decisions. (Although I have no idea how firing an incompetent clown like Garth Snow could be a difficult decision for any businessman).

They’re averaging less than 12,000 a game under owners who allegedly care, after missing the playoffs last year

 

[Satan'sIsland81]

They’re averaging less than 12,000 a game under owners who allegedly care, after missing the playoffs last year

There is a difference between that happening now and these owners allowing the team to sink back to the level where there will be 7,000 people at the first weekday game at the new arena. The current time will dictate what happens then. You think that if Garth Snow continues to be employed and this team misses the playoffs for three years in a row, fans are suddenly going to be craving Islanders hockey in three years. That Belmont will be filled to capacity because there is a new arena?

 

[Satan'sIsland81]

Apples and oranges.

But that is not what you said. Please go back and look at your response. You countered me by saying NONE of the professional writers who cover professional sports EVER ask these questions. Then when I suggested otherwise, your answer was apples and oranges?

 

[PK Cronin]

But that is not what you said. Please go back and look at your response. You countered me by saying NONE of the professional writers who cover professional sports EVER ask these questions. Then when I suggested otherwise, your answer was apples and oranges?

Oh, I used an absolute. Sorry.

And most beat writers don't. Link me to the beat writers who did for the Giants or Mets.

 

[BelovedIsles]

Snow is also essentially saying that he doesn’t value JT’s stance. JT has explicitly stated that he wants to play for a team that’s doing everything they can to win.

If JT moves on and/or they miss the playoffs, L & M have to come through; I’m losing faith in those two. There’s no successful course unless this guy is gone, retool re-rebuild whatever, doesn’t matter if he’s leading the ship.

He’s going to sell the injuries to L & M, they are not going to want to absolve his golden parachute and he still will remain employed; continuing to undermine this franchise. My gosh, I would have never thought that the residue of Wang would still be looming large.

 

[norwegianislander]

Garth Snow is going to trade at the deadline. He knows he is under pressure. What he said in the media is tactics.

I dont want to trade our two first with this idiot at the helm. We will miss the playoffs with Snowshit and Clueless Dougie, and i believe JT will walk, Who can blame him? If Snow is fired in the summer, the future of this team will be a little brighter with this two picks in our possesion.

 

[oooooooooohCanada]

Imagine Nylander, Kapanen and a #1 pick for Tavares, who I'm sure the Leafs would re-sign?

Makes no sense for Toronto to do that though. Tavares could walk 2 months later and sign elsewhere. The only way he goes to Toronto is if he chooses to go there with no assets given up.

 

[doublechili]

Last year Garth blamed missing the playoffs on an injury to his AHL goaltender. This year he is blaming the Isles' failures on injuries to an AHL player and an NHL player. So he's actually improving in his excuse-making. Let's give credit where credit is due.

 

[doublechili]

Does anybody know if there is a mailing address for Ledecky/Malkin? If there is we should bombard them with professional, formal, yet blunt letters explaining if this man continues to be employed as GM by them behind the facade of every excuse a desperate person can come up with, they will no longer be receiving the support of us as fans.

Ledecky/Malkin
North Pole

 

[doublechili]

As usual, a Snow article tells us basically nothing. Snow says he's not going to trade JT. But he's already said that, and any decision to trade JT would come from L&M, not Snow. And Snow is not going to trade high picks for a rental. Not big news, and something I'd actually agree with. However, that doesn't mean he can't trade for a guy with term. The biggest need right now AND the biggest hole in the organizational depth chart for the future is the same thing: a stud, top-pairing defenseman. If Snow is going to trade significant assets, it should be to acquire that.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

I know it's not popular around here (well, maybe now it may be) but I think it's time to re-tool this Isles team and WITHOUT Johnny. More importantly - WITHOUT GARTH.

Basically, the end of the JT era must be the end of the Snow era. Can't happen any other way.

In fact, when Snow hired an AHL coach, then fired him, then hired another one, and then fired him - that should have been the end of it. No GM tenure should be allowed to outlive that.

And yet, here we are.

Imagine Nylander, Kapanen and a #1 pick for Tavares, who I'm sure the Leafs would re-sign? Another #1 plus a dman for Bailey? Imagine going into the next two drafts with 5-6 first round picks and cap space and players on ELCs? And Sorokin not far off?

For an objectively reacting hockey fan who sees the plethora of weaknesses in this team, there is MUCH speaking for giving up on this season, moving Tavares and Bailey accordingly, then removing the current GM and coaching staff the day after the last day of the season. Another GM and staff should then come in and make this their show.

There would still be plenty in the cupboard to work with and the new GM could theoretically run his first draft and then go about adding a few free agents as he sees fit for whatever vision he'd be bringing in.

As for what JT and Bailey could bring back, both would be of interest to teams who see a run this spring as a real reality. The west is open. The east is a little clearer. I personally don't think any team out there would give us a "Nylander" for either as part of a package. Not a young, pivotal player. Toronto has many assets and would remain a possible destination. Several teams in the west could theoretically give us more in the line of futures. MHO.

But even if just in an alternate universe, I'd be interested in seeing what Tavares could bring back if traded.

 

[redbull]

Makes no sense for Toronto to do that though. Tavares could walk 2 months later and sign elsewhere. The only way he goes to Toronto is if he chooses to go there with no assets given up.

I don't know. The playoff run THIS year is worth a lot. Even just as a rental - we ay more than Nash for example. Plus negotiating rights and opportunity to sign long term.

 

[Dipietro39]

Garth Snow is going to trade at the deadline. He knows he is under pressure. What he said in the media is tactics.

I dont want to trade our two first with this idiot at the helm. We will miss the playoffs with Snow**** and Clueless Dougie, and i believe JT will walk, Who can blame him? If Snow is fired in the summer, the future of this team will be a little brighter with this two picks in our possesion.

He never said he wasn't going to trade. He said he won't trade for RENTALS, which he shouldn't and better not.

 

[SLAPSHOT723]

I know it's not popular around here (well, maybe now it may be) but I think it's time to re-tool this Isles team and WITHOUT Johnny. More importantly - WITHOUT GARTH.

The numbers just don't add up. Regardless of how we got here, given what the market price is for our top players, and how bad the team is even WITH the top players, there's simply no way to improve this team enough to be a cup contender, even by spending to the cap. We don't have enough of, or talented enough defensemen, no #1 goalie and no depth at forward. The holes are too many and too big.

A new president/GM/coach may do wonders with this team in a few years IF they land some serious assets for their pending UFAs and build around Barzal.

There are few sellers, the market will pay dearly for Bailey and Tavares. And more for Lee and Eberle next deadline. Those four players can bring back at least 7-8 great assets, not necessarily picks, but young players with upside (thinking guys like Kapanen or Nylander from the Leafs, or a young dman from Nashville or a top tier goalie prospect.

The flipside of trying to plug holes with very few assets (except the two first rounders) and major holes and increasing spend and flat cap -- seems like futility.

Even if JT wants to re-sign, I just don't see enough to make a competitive team, a perennial cup favourite. Just doesn't add up.

Regardless of Snow's tenure and past failures, looking just at the situation RIGHT NOW, it seems that parting ways with JT may be the better move for the franchise. Not for right now, but maybe three years from now.

Again. It's sickening to think this way after all the failures of 12 years (and way more before Snow) - BUT, objectively, removing emotions and rage, it may be the smarter move. Especially given the level of assets those two top NHL scorers would bring back at a time with so much competition, no sellers and the difference making ability of such players.

Imagine Nylander, Kapanen and a #1 pick for Tavares, who I'm sure the Leafs would re-sign? Another #1 plus a dman for Bailey? Imagine going into the next two drafts with 5-6 first round picks and cap space and players on ELCs? And Sorokin not far off?

Sickening, yes. BUT if it means no Garth and the price is no JT - with a vision to Belmont, I don't know....I think it makes sense.

I do feel the same way. We are in a horrible situation, and maybe the best course is to replace Snow and move on from the Tavares era to start the Mat Barzal era.

This may be an unpopular opinion here too, but I think JT has been a part of the problem. He's not THE problem, of course, but a part of the problem. I don't blame him for his lack of commitment to the organization, but what I do have concerns with his some of his leadership decisions. Does anyone remember what year it was, when it looked like Garth was going to trade some players away (Okposo, Nielsen, Bailey, maybe deHaan too) and the team begged him to give them another year? I think that was after we lost to Washington. I have to think JT had a major role in that, and if he did then he's part of the insanity here, where we keep trying the same shit over and over again expecting different results. Also his inexplicable infatuation with Capuano kept a really bad coach here a lot longer than he should have been.

What I don't agree on is trading Lee and Eberle next year. I'd love to bring them back, especially Eberle. I know it may seem like I'm contradicting myself, but if you build around these guys differently than the last few years, they could have a much better impact. I'd really like to bring balance to our lineup. Something I'd like to do is let JT and Bailey go (or trade them at the deadline, whatever), trade for Ryan O'Reilly, and we'd have a nice top-6 going into next year.

Beauvillier-Barzal-Eberle
Lee-O'Reilly-Ho-Sang

 

[seafoam]

@redbull I respect your opinions, and it’s funny you say that because yesterday I listened to an Isles podcast from Lighthouse Hockey with Staple and one of the things that stuck with me was when they mentioned the lack of respected voices in the room. They went on to say that Tavares is so focused on preparing himself for the games that he’s not a very vocal leader and doesn’t really have the same grab of the room that guys like Streit and Nielsen did when they rarely spoke up.

Tavares might end up being an Eric Staal type guy where he’s just not able to lead his team to the glory land (I believe Brind’ Amour was Captain during their Cup and E. Staal eventually took over after that team was dismantled).

Anyway, I just wanted to say that I see where you are coming from and get the point you are making. If Snow couldn’t put together a winner with Johnny making 5.5M per (on the cap), how the hell is he going to do it with him making 10+M per???

With where the game is going (speed, youth), you might be onto something thinking that a franchise with Garth Snow and a 10+M per John Tavares at the helm of it all might not be part of the solution, but part of the problem.

What sucks is, they likely put themselves too far out to draft a potential 1D, which is what they will need to pair with Barzal.

 

[C24]

I do feel the same way. We are in a horrible situation, and maybe the best course is to move on from the Tavares era and start the Mat Barzal era.

This may be an unpopular opinion here too, but I think JT has been a part of the problem. He's not THE problem, of course, but a part of the problem. I don't blame him for his lack of commitment to the organization, but what I do have concerns with his some of his leadership decisions. Does anyone remember what year it was, when it looked like Garth was going to trade some players away (Okposo, Nielsen, Bailey, maybe deHaan too) and the team begged him to give them another year? I think that was after we lost to Washington. I have to think JT had a major role in that, and if he did then he's part of the insanity here, where we keep trying the same **** over and over again expecting different results. Also his inexplicable infatuation with Capuano kept a really bad coach here a lot longer than he should have been.

What I don't agree on is trading Lee and Eberle next year. I'd love to bring them back, especially Eberle. I know it may seem like I'm contradicting myself, but if you build around these guys differently than the last few years, they could have a much better impact. I'd really like to bring balance to our lineup. Something I'd like to do is let JT and Bailey go (or trade them at the deadline, whatever), trade for Ryan O'Reilly, and we'd have a nice top-6 going into next year.

Beauvillier-Barzal-Eberle
Lee-O'Reilly-Ho-Sang

Starting a new era with Snow in charge is also insanity.