Garth Snow Pt. III - Snow’s inactivity

[YearlyLottery]

Seems MJF answered for you both. Staples original tweet was in error. He rescinded it. People just tried to connect dots to make it fact. I also read another quote that by the time Hall was available Chia preferred Larsson. It's obvious the timeline didn't work out as both Hall and Hamonic were available (publicly) during different time periods.

I don't get the vibe that Edmonton did not want Hamonic, but rather that Snow did not want a forward in return for Hammer.

Oh well, Snow got a first and a second now. Helps if Tavares leaves I guess.

 

[Jester9881]

Do you think the system is too complex? We often see guys getting really confused as to who they are supposed to cover or what their role is, and that's just really strange to me. It kind of reminds me of the PK strategy, super difficult to execute properly and has little upside over more traditional strategies even when it's executed well.

I think it's an incredibly stupid system to employ, but if someone tasked me with building a team around that system it would need two things to work.

1. Strong defensemen that can consistently win board battles (something you touched on, and something we just do not have outside of Boychuk)
2. All 4 centermen must be top notch defensively to cover for the roving defensemen. Again, something we lack outside of Cizikas.

As for the forwards breaking out lower, I think you mean like when they (weak side forwards) swing low in the zone to give the defensemen a passing option, and so the forwards leave the zone as a group? I agree that is essential.

The whole thing stinks of "I'm going to try something I saw XYZ do and if it doesn't work it's because the players aren't learning". Some of the best advice I've ever gotten in life: Keep it simple, stupid. Defense isn't rocket surgery, and despite what some may think their goaltenders should be good enough to cover many typical mistakes, just not when they are coming 3X every shift. There is not a defensive scheme I'm aware of that makes any sense, where both your defensemen bail on the front of the net. There's a reason why no one does it, and when they do the results are similar.

 

[PK Cronin]

I think it's an incredibly stupid system to employ, but if someone tasked me with building a team around that system it would need two things to work.

1. Strong defensemen that can consistently win board battles (something you touched on, and something we just do not have outside of Boychuk)
2. All 4 centermen must be top notch defensively to cover for the roving defensemen. Again, something we lack outside of Cizikas.

As for the forwards breaking out lower, I think you mean like when they (weak side forwards) swing low in the zone to give the defensemen a passing option, and so the forwards leave the zone as a group? I agree that is essential.

The whole thing stinks of "I'm going to try something I saw XYZ do and if it doesn't work it's because the players aren't learning". Some of the best advice I've ever gotten in life: Keep it simple, stupid. Defense isn't rocket surgery, and despite what some may think their goaltenders should be good enough to cover many typical mistakes, just not when they are coming 3X every shift. There is not a defensive scheme I'm aware of that makes any sense, where both your defensemen bail on the front of the net. There's a reason why no one does it, and when they do the results are similar.

Boychuk is definitely valuable for that reason. He either wins the board battle or he actually pins his assignment to the wall and doesn't let them go. The part that he's not good at is winning and skating/breaking away, but Leddy is good at that so it works when they're paired together. How many times are we going to see those centers/wings completely clueless as to who they're responsible for in the zone? It's as if when something doesn't go exactly how it's scripted in practice, they don't know what to do.

I much prefer the forwards to breakout as a group, yes. When they support one another as a unit they are able to exit pretty well, especially the Barzal line. The way Eberle is able to chip it to Barzal streaking up is how I prefer breakouts to be done when possible. If Beauvillier leaves too early in that scenario and is chilling at the opposition's blue line, I think it makes it more difficult for Eberle because he doesn't have as many options to pass.

Completely agree with the mentality of Weight. It's too stupid, risky, complex, etc. so the guys aren't getting it or aren't doing it well enough to succeed, but he refuses to simplify in order to get better results.

 

[Jester9881]

Also, I keep saying "passive box", I mean box +1. This is why I could never coach, it only makes sense in my head lol.

 

[oooooooooohCanada]

Sign and trade with the contract for 7 years change your mind?

Eh not really. If he was willing to sign here from a sign and trade then he would be willing to sign here in UFA. I'd just take the risk of getting him in FA instead.

 

[Lame Lambert]

 

[france62]

Yeah I feel the same way, always hoping a trade happened

 

[sabremike]

Garth Snow fun fact of the day: Did you know that in the 12 years Garth has been GM the Islanders have fewer combined playoff wins (12) than the rags had in their 2014 run to the finals (14) alone? #SnowMustGo

 

[MJF]

I thought people like this went the way of the Dodo bird. A real live Snow apologist and Islanders homer.

 

[wingnutks]

And we were on McDonagh's no trade list lol

 

[BrockLobster]

And we were on McDonagh's no trade list lol

Is that true? Amazing yet not unbelievable

 

[Lame Lambert]

Is that true? Amazing yet not unbelievable

Yes.

 

[BrockLobster]

Yes.

On list meaning he wouldn't come here or list that he would?

 

[Lame Lambert]

On list meaning he wouldn't come here or list that he would?

Would not come here.

 

[LeapOnOver]

And we were on McDonagh's no trade list lol

We are probably already on the Rangers no trade list, lol.

 

[PK Cronin]

And we were on McDonagh's no trade list lol

Link?

 

[Konk]

Link?

Staple's latest article:

 

[BarBeauWahlDobLok]

I remember the day Neil Smith was fired and Snow was hired. My first thought was literally, "It can't be the backup goalie Snow." That thought was followed by, "I literally can't be right."

 

[Nassau Revisited]

And we were on McDonagh's no trade list lol

That is an X on the bingo board!

Any sensible player wouldn't want to go near the circus of Snow and Ledecky

 

[HyeDray]

Garth Snow has proven to be just as flawed (Im being kind) as Milbury — just the 180º opposite.

Snow is far too patient with his picks and either waits too long to deal them because he is not versed in where a player may be in a development cycle or he continues to believe that every player he drafts will reach maximum potential.

In the case of Tavares, it was a no brainer. The guy is as advertised.

In the case of Reinhart and Strome — both picks have not developed and both were turned into something good. Reinhart became Barzal and Strome has become Eberle. The latter is an issue only because by this time next season he could be traded to a contender...

In the case of Nino — it was a top-to-bottom blunder.

In the case of Dal Colle... Im not even sure yet. He certainly deserves a longer look considering how the bottom 6 have played this season.

Pullock has looked like he is improving more and more.

Bailey was mishandled as well, although he has worked through it largely because he is strong defensively and he has the benefit of playing the Tavares.

So the draft is 50-50 fiver of take.

The REAL PROBLEM is — trades.

The Ryan Smyth deal was a big time gamble using Milbury prospects that really were not a part of the picture. So I can give him a bit of a break on this one — I know many others cannot)

The deals for Boychuck and Leddy were cap space luck. Had Boston or Chicago had the cap space, these two would not be Islanders.

The deal for Eberle was a good one.

Other then that — I cannot see another "hockey trade" that Snow has made in his entire tenure as GM to make the NY Islanders better. Not at the draft or deadline or at any other time.

I saw a lot of players move yesterday for far less then other fan bases would offer here in the trade rumors section. Davidson may prove to be a very capable bottom pair defender who seems to have a reasonable shot blocking and PKing specialty. Those are both sorely needed attribute. I also hear that Davidson has a mean streak — something DESPERATELY needed for the Islanders. Wagner is a true 4th liner who has PK skill. Again — something desperately needed. So I don't want to completely throw shade on these moves.

But the fact remains that the Islanders lack a true top pair defender right now as well as third line center.

I find it remarkable that over the course of the season, regardless of who was injured or not — this team still needed a top pair defender and a third line center.

Considering that the window for this team with JT could be closing in a few weeks, I am amazed that this was not a season where management thought, they needed to "step on the gas" a little and gamble.

I cannot believe that a package involving one of the 2 first rounders, Brock Nelson Dal Colle and another middle tier prospect couldn't yield a solid top 4 defender at the very least with term on his contract. Im not suggesting that yields Erik Karlsson — but I have to believe that kind of package could bring back an impact defender.

Snow is — and has been — married to his draft picks and that is causing all kinds of issues. I have long been patient with Snow but it is way overdue that he is replaced with someone who can make solid hockey assessments of who the Islanders have and better manage those assets into building a winning team.

 

[C24]

Staple's latest article:

Lol Snow is such a loser.

 

[12Dog]

Garth Snow has proven to be just as flawed (Im being kind) as Milbury — just the 180º opposite.

Snow is far too patient with his picks and either waits too long to deal them because he is not versed in where a player may be in a development cycle or he continues to believe that every player he drafts will reach maximum potential.

In the case of Tavares, it was a no brainer. The guy is as advertised.

In the case of Reinhart and Strome — both picks have not developed and both were turned into something good. Reinhart became Barzal and Strome has become Eberle. The latter is an issue only because by this time next season he could be traded to a contender...

In the case of Nino — it was a top-to-bottom blunder.

In the case of Dal Colle... Im not even sure yet. He certainly deserves a longer look considering how the bottom 6 have played this season.

Pullock has looked like he is improving more and more.

Bailey was mishandled as well, although he has worked through it largely because he is strong defensively and he has the benefit of playing the Tavares.

So the draft is 50-50 fiver of take.

The REAL PROBLEM is — trades.

The Ryan Smyth deal was a big time gamble using Milbury prospects that really were not a part of the picture. So I can give him a bit of a break on this one — I know many others cannot)

The deals for Boychuck and Leddy were cap space luck. Had Boston or Chicago had the cap space, these two would not be Islanders.

The deal for Eberle was a good one.

Other then that — I cannot see another "hockey trade" that Snow has made in his entire tenure as GM to make the NY Islanders better. Not at the draft or deadline or at any other time.

I saw a lot of players move yesterday for far less then other fan bases would offer here in the trade rumors section. Davidson may prove to be a very capable bottom pair defender who seems to have a reasonable shot blocking and PKing specialty. Those are both sorely needed attribute. I also hear that Davidson has a mean streak — something DESPERATELY needed for the Islanders. Wagner is a true 4th liner who has PK skill. Again — something desperately needed. So I don't want to completely throw shade on these moves.

But the fact remains that the Islanders lack a true top pair defender right now as well as third line center.

I find it remarkable that over the course of the season, regardless of who was injured or not — this team still needed a top pair defender and a third line center.

Considering that the window for this team with JT could be closing in a few weeks, I am amazed that this was not a season where management thought, they needed to "step on the gas" a little and gamble.

I cannot believe that a package involving one of the 2 first rounders, Brock Nelson Dal Colle and another middle tier prospect couldn't yield a solid top 4 defender at the very least with term on his contract. Im not suggesting that yields Erik Karlsson — but I have to believe that kind of package could bring back an impact defender.

Snow is — and has been — married to his draft picks and that is causing all kinds of issues. I have long been patient with Snow but it is way overdue that he is replaced with someone who can make solid hockey assessments of who the Islanders have and better manage those assets into building a winning team.

You identify trades as Snow’s biggest fault?
How about crappy drafting? Or handing out ludicrous contracts? Thank God Vanek turned down his money.
If it wasn’t for the equally inept Chia, Snow’s best moves would be his dumpster dives.

 

[gordie43]

You identify trades as Snow’s biggest fault?
How about crappy drafting? Or handing out ludicrous contracts? Thank God Vanek turned down his money.
If it wasn’t for the equally inept Chia, Snow’s best moves would be his dumpster dives.

Some of Snows best moves were ones that did not happen. See Paul Martin, Christian Erhoff, Dan Boyle, Thomas Vanek....

 

[GrandmaSlices51631]

Some of Snows best moves were ones that did not happen. See Paul Martin, Christian Erhoff, Dan Boyle, Thomas Vanek....

Thanks for pointing this out, people forget if Snow got his way, we would be built on a foundation of Boyle and Vanek. Since he couldn't blow his wad on them, he had to waste the money on Ladd, Clutterbuck and Greiss.

I'd take Vanek under 3 million over Ladd and his deal 10 times out of 10. Even Vanek wanted no part of the Islanders

 

[beach]

How about figuratively?

I remember the day Neil Smith was fired and Snow was hired. My first thought was literally, "It can't be the backup goalie Snow." That thought was followed by, "I literally can't be right."