Garth Snow Pt. III - Snow’s inactivity

[Satan'sIsland81]

Garth Snow has proven to be just as flawed (Im being kind) as Milbury — just the 180º opposite.

Snow is far too patient with his picks and either waits too long to deal them because he is not versed in where a player may be in a development cycle or he continues to believe that every player he drafts will reach maximum potential.

In the case of Tavares, it was a no brainer. The guy is as advertised.

In the case of Reinhart and Strome — both picks have not developed and both were turned into something good. Reinhart became Barzal and Strome has become Eberle. The latter is an issue only because by this time next season he could be traded to a contender...

In the case of Nino — it was a top-to-bottom blunder.

In the case of Dal Colle... Im not even sure yet. He certainly deserves a longer look considering how the bottom 6 have played this season.

Pullock has looked like he is improving more and more.

Bailey was mishandled as well, although he has worked through it largely because he is strong defensively and he has the benefit of playing the Tavares.

So the draft is 50-50 fiver of take.

The REAL PROBLEM is — trades.

The Ryan Smyth deal was a big time gamble using Milbury prospects that really were not a part of the picture. So I can give him a bit of a break on this one — I know many others cannot)

The deals for Boychuck and Leddy were cap space luck. Had Boston or Chicago had the cap space, these two would not be Islanders.

The deal for Eberle was a good one.

Other then that — I cannot see another "hockey trade" that Snow has made in his entire tenure as GM to make the NY Islanders better. Not at the draft or deadline or at any other time.

I saw a lot of players move yesterday for far less then other fan bases would offer here in the trade rumors section. Davidson may prove to be a very capable bottom pair defender who seems to have a reasonable shot blocking and PKing specialty. Those are both sorely needed attribute. I also hear that Davidson has a mean streak — something DESPERATELY needed for the Islanders. Wagner is a true 4th liner who has PK skill. Again — something desperately needed. So I don't want to completely throw shade on these moves.

But the fact remains that the Islanders lack a true top pair defender right now as well as third line center.

I find it remarkable that over the course of the season, regardless of who was injured or not — this team still needed a top pair defender and a third line center.

Considering that the window for this team with JT could be closing in a few weeks, I am amazed that this was not a season where management thought, they needed to "step on the gas" a little and gamble.

I cannot believe that a package involving one of the 2 first rounders, Brock Nelson Dal Colle and another middle tier prospect couldn't yield a solid top 4 defender at the very least with term on his contract. Im not suggesting that yields Erik Karlsson — but I have to believe that kind of package could bring back an impact defender.

Snow is — and has been — married to his draft picks and that is causing all kinds of issues. I have long been patient with Snow but it is way overdue that he is replaced with someone who can make solid hockey assessments of who the Islanders have and better manage those assets into building a winning team.

This post is spot on. It is almost unfathomable that in 12 years, this GM has made 5, FIVE trades for legit proven NHL players - Smyth, Vanek, Boychuk, Leddy and Eberle. And as this poster pointed out, Boychuk and Leddy are really stretching it because he took advantage of cap strapped teams, but they were good moves so I included them here. But in 12 years, a GM has made 3-5 hockey trades. There are some teams who do that in 2 years. How can you be surprised with the lack of success in Snow's failed tenure.

 

[Hunn]

Garth Snow fun fact of the day: Did you know that in the 12 years Garth has been GM the Islanders have fewer combined playoff wins (12) than the rags had in their 2014 run to the finals (14) alone? #SnowMustGo

You're too generous to Mr Snow. It's 11 playoff game wins in 11 seasons – exactly 1 game per year.

To put it in perspective: the average number of playoff SERIES wins in 12 seasons is 12 seasons x 15 series wins per season / 30 teams = 6 series wins per team.

 

[Lame Lambert]

 

[Dipietro39]

SNOW MUST GO

 

[seafoam]

Dude waited so long to make his trades, and the level of trades he did were not even ones that were “deadline deals”. They could have been done at any point in the season with a little elbow grease.

There’s no excuse for the trades he made to be done as late as they did, but I guess that’s what happens when you have ownership’s full support and you report to yourself on the Hockey Operations organizational chart!

Snow Must f***ing Go!

 

[Kauskey]

The REAL PROBLEM is — trades.

The Ryan Smyth deal was a big time gamble using Milbury prospects that really were not a part of the picture. So I can give him a bit of a break on this one — I know many others cannot)

The deals for Boychuck and Leddy were cap space luck. Had Boston or Chicago had the cap space, these two would not be Islanders.

The deal for Eberle was a good one.

Other then that — I cannot see another "hockey trade" that Snow has made in his entire tenure as GM to make the NY Islanders better. Not at the draft or deadline or at any other time.

So Garth now deserves no credit for taking advantage of Chicago and Boston's cap situation? His job as a GM is to acquire talent. He did that. He should be praised for those trades. Likewise, he should be blamed for fielding the atrocious defense that we have today.

I think Garth is better at trading than you suggest. He's lost a few obvious ones, but I think he's won more than he's lost. He acquired Halak for a fourth rounder. He turned Campoli and Comrie into a first rounder. He sold high on Reinhart and Hamonic. He just traded a 38 year old who cant crack the worst bottom 6 in the league for a roster player.

I think your post hinted at what I believe to be Garth's biggest weakness: staying the course. He is, as you said, the opposite of Milbury to a fault.

Garth decided after his first disastrous offseason that the only way this franchise would acquire talent is through the draft. Cash isn't much leverage when there's a strict salary cap and every team can just about match your offer unless you drastically overpay. Free agents still aren't coming here, and they likely wont until Belmont is built, and even then it's not likely to become a free agent destination. Whenever Garth's been aggressive and tried to acquire top-tier talent via trades, it usually backfires (see: Vanek) or would cost too much capital (see: Duchene). He can win a trade here or there, capitalize on another teams misfortunes (Leddy, Boychuck), but he won't push his chips in the middle of the table like he did with Smyth. Garth's determined to keep talent flowing in through the draft. Garth's a maddening GM. I think he has the right, measured approach to steering the franchise, but the execution has been off. Draft picks have gone bust. Coaches overstayed their welcome.

I think his biggest weakness has been his coaching selection. With the exception of Nolan, who was not his hire, Garth hired Scotty "Groin Strain" Gordon, Cap, and Doug Weight. I can't think of a trio of worse or unaccomplished head coaches. A massive losing streak forced his hand with Gordon, and he was far, far too loyal to Cap. Will he be with Weight? Unsuccessful GM's like Garth usually don't get to four head coaches, but Garth's an anamoly. He's a cockroach. If a nuclear war happened tomorrow, Garth would still slither into work to hammer out a five year extension Tanner Fritz.

 

[Satan'sIsland81]

So Garth now deserves no credit for taking advantage of Chicago and Boston's cap situation? His job as a GM is to acquire talent. He did that. He should be praised for those trades. Likewise, he should be blamed for fielding the atrocious defense that we have today.

I think Garth is better at trading than you suggest. He's lost a few obvious ones, but I think he's won more than he's lost. He acquired Halak for a fourth rounder. He turned Campoli and Comrie into a first rounder. He sold high on Reinhart and Hamonic. He just traded a 38 year old who cant crack the worst bottom 6 in the league for a roster player.

I think your post hinted at what I believe to be Garth's biggest weakness: staying the course. He is, as you said, the opposite of Milbury to a fault.

Garth decided after his first disastrous offseason that the only way this franchise would acquire talent is through the draft. Cash isn't much leverage when there's a strict salary cap and every team can just about match your offer unless you drastically overpay. Free agents still aren't coming here, and they likely wont until Belmont is built, and even then it's not likely to become a free agent destination. Whenever Garth's been aggressive and tried to acquire top-tier talent via trades, it usually backfires (see: Vanek) or would cost too much capital (see: Duchene). He can win a trade here or there, capitalize on another teams misfortunes (Leddy, Boychuck), but he won't push his chips in the middle of the table like he did with Smyth. Garth's determined to keep talent flowing in through the draft. Garth's a maddening GM. I think he has the right, measured approach to steering the franchise, but the execution has been off. Draft picks have gone bust. Coaches overstayed their welcome.

I think his biggest weakness has been his coaching selection. With the exception of Nolan, who was not his hire, Garth hired Scotty "Groin Strain" Gordon, Cap, and Doug Weight. I can't think of a trio of worse or unaccomplished head coaches. A massive losing streak forced his hand with Gordon, and he was far, far too loyal to Cap. Will he be with Weight? Unsuccessful GM's like Garth usually don't get to four head coaches, but Garth's an anamoly. He's a cockroach. If a nuclear war happened tomorrow, Garth would still slither into work to hammer out a five year extension Tanner Fritz.

You are missing the point. Yes, he has made a handful of good moves. But almost every move he makes involved lower level draft picks (3rd round or worse) or bringing in draft picks. He has only made 3-5 (depending on your definition) of player for player trades to upgrade/improve the team. There is no way a team will ever be successful with a GM who averages making an NHL hockey player trade once every 3-4 years.

 

[Kauskey]

You are missing the point. Yes, he has made a handful of good moves. But almost every move he makes involved lower level draft picks (3rd round or worse) or bringing in draft picks. He has only made 3-5 (depending on your definition) of player for player trades to upgrade/improve the team. There is no way a team will ever be successful with a GM who averages making an NHL hockey player trade once every 3-4 years.

Nope, I agree completely. He's won some more trades than people like to give him credit for, lost some trades, but most of his trades are negligible. I was just rambling about how maddening his patient, measured approach drives me crazy.

 

[PK Cronin]

Snow's issue isn't drafting or trades, it's both, along with timing. He's done a good job of grabbing some useful players over the years, but he hasn't been able to land the big players when the team needs them most. Everyone knew the Islanders needed help on defense going into the season, but Snow didn't do anything. Davidson is probably going to be an okay player, but he's not an impact player. The only deals Snow has ever made that included impact players were, Vanek, Leddy, Boychuk, and most recently Eberle. However, none of those guys are players that drive play or can do much on their own. The issue is compounded by the fact that Snow's drafting ability seems to only nab guys who aren't elite players in later rounds. He gets productive players, but he never hits a home run (except with Tavares and Barzal). That's 12 years and only two top end guys via the draft. That means everyone else is a complimentary piece and the team won't get over the hump. The team needs an elite (top 10) defenseman or goaltender. It's never gotten one, and we've only just this season gotten a second center.

 

[12Dog]

Seems like Snow did better when this was a cap floor team, or maybe it was the low expectations. He used to get guys to take below market deals, that skill is clearly gone. Either way Snow has had more than a fair amount of time and money to prove he is what he is, a below average NHL executive. Then again what should a backup goalie with zero management experience be?

 

[A Pointed Stick]

Snow said he wasn't doing much and he stuck to his words.

All is fine.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

If Snow is not gone by next season’s start then I have lost all faith in the team as a whole from an NHL fan standpoint.

Idc if Tavares gets an amazing contract, great acquisitions are made, etc... Snow has f***ed up for so long it is laughable how the new owners even dare stand in the same room as this guy.

Screw being a Devils fan or a second, im pissed off as an NHL fan how this guy can hold a iob but legitimate coaches and GMs are fired for less in the NHL and other sports

 

[Metnut]

I think Snow's biggest failure as a GM comes down to the inability to find a good coach. He's had his share of misses in the draft, but he's hit on a lot of players too. I look at our roster, and our minor system, and see a lot of talent. Do we really think that teams like the Devils, Blue Jackets, Flyers and even Bruins all have rosters that are that much better than NYI?

After Snow is fired, the most important job for the new GM will be to clean house (Thompson and the rest of the AHL staff have to go also) and articulate to ownership how he'll be able to put together a top coaching staff for the Islanders. I don't think that a quick turnaround next year with this roster (if Tavares stays) is too much to expect.

Also, finding a goalie would help too.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

This post is spot on. It is almost unfathomable that in 12 years, this GM has made 5, FIVE trades for legit proven NHL players - Smyth, Vanek, Boychuk, Leddy and Eberle. And as this poster pointed out, Boychuk and Leddy are really stretching it because he took advantage of cap strapped teams, but they were good moves so I included them here. But in 12 years, a GM has made 3-5 hockey trades. There are some teams who do that in 2 years. How can you be surprised with the lack of success in Snow's failed tenure.

I'm not too concerned about the amount of trades. Quality over quantity in my opinion. And I'd always choose being too patient than too impulsive.

But the fact of the matter is that the results simply aren't there. The Grabovski/Kulemin/Leddy/Boychuk type moves were made about 2-3 years too late. Key problems were never addressed. The rebuild took too long to begin with and when it was finally over, it was botched.

 

[CREW99AW]

If Snow is not gone by next season’s start then I have lost all faith in the team as a whole from an NHL fan standpoint.

Idc if Tavares gets an amazing contract, great acquisitions are made, etc... Snow has ****ed up for so long it is laughable how the new owners even dare stand in the same room as this guy.

Screw being a Devils fan or a second, im pissed off as an NHL fan how this guy can hold a iob but legitimate coaches and GMs are fired for less in the NHL and other sports

Early in the season Snow gave a radio interview, trying to sell this group as being built for a SC run
I think he overrates his talent.

I expect he will try to use injuries as an excuse to explain this crappy season. It is a bs excuse because the defense and goaltending were bad before De Haan and Boychuk went down.

 

[Nassau Revisited]

Snows big off season move will be Wagner’s 4 year contact

 

[Nassau Revisited]

Early in the season Snow gave a radio interview, trying to sell this group as being built for a SC run
I think he overrates his talent.

I expect he will try to use injuries as an excuse to explain this crappy season. It is a bs excuse because the defense and goaltending were bad before De Haan and Boychuk went down.

He always uses injuries as excuses. Ledecky is just so clueless he buys it. Every team loses De Haan and Kulemin type players during a season. The Isles have actually been pretty healthy considering.

Whoops I forgot about Toews injury... that was the back breaker. Ledecky is probably to dumb to look at the first name of the Toews that got injured

 

[duster19]

Snows big off season move will be Wagner’s 4 year contact

And Davidson.

They have to get rid of Garth. There is no choice anymore. Yes. It could cost us JT. That’s on ownership too. Garth should have never been left in place this season. Now they are in a train wreck of a position - there is a real possibility that JT could leave and the isles get nothing.

 

[beach]

I'm not so sure JT would be upset if Snow and coaches were fired. I know he has a friendship with Weight, but he must be thinking the same things we are thinking. The best path to stability an progress would be to wipe everything clean right now and hire the right people.

 

[majormet]

I'm not so sure JT would be upset if Snow and coaches were fired. I know he has a friendship with Weight, but he must be thinking the same things we are thinking. The best path to stability an progress would be to wipe everything clean right now and hire the right people.

I would think he would want to win also... hiring Richards or Sutter could change that... Isles have never given JT a real coach in the NHL...

 

[danteipp]

Snow seems to have just one plan (OK maybe half a plan) and, like Mike Tyson said, “everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth”.

He has NEVER been able to adjust in-season and has even taken multiple years to make obvious changes.

Everyone saw that the defense was top-heavy and paper thin on depth and, while the CdH and Toews injuries were unfortunate (CdH's isn't exactly shocking though), Snow didn't do anything early on when he should have. Ideally the Isles would have made a move for a legit top-4 defender in the off season, when defensemen were flying everywhere, but at a minimum they had to at least upgrade on Seidenberg's spot, especially after trading Hamonic and push players like Hickey, Pelech, Mayfield, etc. down the depth chart.

Honestly, I don't think Snow has taken enough heat for how he handled the entire Vegas expansion draft. The Knights took on the final year of Mikhail Grabovski’s contract and selected goalie Jean-François Bérubé as their expansion pick, but Vegas got a 2017 first-round pick (No. 15 overall), 2019 second-round pick and defense prospect Jake Bischoff from the Isles.

I am sure the Isles owners loved the move, they got out of paying $6 million to Grabo (depending on if insurance picks up anything of course), but the Isles could have put him on LTIR and recouped cap space. If any player deserves to be on LTIR, it is Grabo.

Instead, the Isles should have had Vegas take a contract like Kulemin's (or better yet Clutterbuck), then used the $4 million plus to add another quality vet defender. I hated giving up that first too. I was really hoping for one of the young Euro defenders there. It would have at least been a nice chip to have for a package deal.

And if Vegas would have just taken say Brock "Jane" Nelson or selected him with a lesser sweetener like a third rounder or a second rounder a few seasons out, that would have been OK. Let them take him.

Meanwhile look at what Yzerman did. He dumped a contract he was desperate to get rid of in Jason Garrison and his $4.6 million cap hit and only gave up Nikita Gusev, a 2017 second-round pick and a 2018 fourth-round pick. Gusev is staying in Russia for probably at least this season and next year and who knows if he ever comes over? Tampa then used that cap space to add more talent to their team.

Snow had lots of chances to improve the team in the off season but he missed badly. And he lost futures as well. I really wonder how much favor he curried with the owners telling them he could get out of paying $6 million to the injured Grabo? That is a nice refund check even to rich owners.

 

[SLAPSHOT723]

I wish I could barely do my job and get to keep it for 12 years.

 

[Glorydays22]

God we need to get Snow out of here ASAP. But I'll be honest. I'm not up to date on candidates. Is there much out there? I can't think of a real good

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

God we need to get Snow out of here ASAP. But I'll be honest. I'm not up to date on candidates. Is there much out there? I can't think of a real good

Don't worry, you can just fire Snow and promote your current Assistant GM to full time GM.

 

[Glorydays22]

Don't worry, you can just fire Snow and promote your current Assistant GM to full time GM.

Funny!! - need someone new with a fresh approach to this mess!!